Ahmedabad Discussions

[shreyas1684]

wats ur problem dude...why r u bashin ahmedabad just becoz u found one bad outta hundreds of gud articles....i can claim same to any city of india..or even the globe...understand...there r always PROS n CONS attached wid any A to Z things in the universe..

n BTW..donot forget..INDIA by itself a country of paradoxes...

[Wallst]

Originally Posted by shreyas1684

wats ur problem dude...why r u bashin ahmedabad just becoz u found one bad outta hundreds of gud articles....i can claim same to any city of india..or even the globe...understand...there r always PROS n CONS attached wid any A to Z things in the universe..

n BTW..donot forget..INDIA by itself a country of paradoxes...

I do not have any problem "dude".

But as I said before read with open mind

I am not saying I am agree with writer 100% but its still well balanced article in my view. Gujarat missed IT bus, and major reason was lack of English speaking professional. I strongly believe that lack of English speaking population/professional in Ahmedabad will always keep Ad behind.Big corporate house can not find talent in AD and thus they will set up their shop somewhere else. Take eg of BPO, how many Gujaratis are working in Call center? I think list will be short.

I strongly agree with writer about this mall/multiplex culture will not take this city anywhere.

Just my 2 cents...

[ankushgupta]

Originally Posted by Wallst

Read with open Mind....

you can defend any kind of article by this line even if supports terrorism or teenage/Premarital sex

[Gotcha]

Originally Posted by ankushgupta

you can defend any kind of article by this line even if supports terrorism or teenage/Premarital sex

I'm gonna open all my posts with this line

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by Wallst

I do not have any problem "dude".

But as I said before read with open mind

I am not saying I am agree with writer 100% but its still well balanced article in my view. Gujarat missed IT bus, and major reason was lack of English speaking professional. I strongly believe that lack of English speaking population/professional in Ahmedabad will always keep Ad behind.Big corporate house can not find talent in AD and thus they will set up their shop somewhere else. Take eg of BPO, how many Gujaratis are working in Call center? I think list will be short.

I strongly agree with writer about this mall/multiplex culture will not take this city anywhere.

Just my 2 cents...

Regarding the article, who, in their right mind has honestly ever claimed Ahmedabad to be a "Megacity" in any sort of Global Sense?

Its nothing new or groundbreaking to say that Education/English is poor, its been a problem for decades in Gujarat.

However...

when you say

I strongly believe that lack of English speaking population/professional in Ahmedabad will always keep Ad behind.Big corporate house can not find talent in AD and thus they will set up their shop somewhere else.

Well, even though Gujarat missed the IT bus... has it actually caught a much better ride altogether?

If we think of long-term, sustainable economic growth, my belief is that no state has prospects as bright as those of Gujarat.

Companies look at more factors than simply the labour force. There are many infrastructural and geographic advantages in Gujarat. Ports, Roads, Electricity, Water, Pro-Business Govt, Land to develop without fear of farmer protests etc etc etc

As the statistics all bear testimony to, Gujarat is not exactly short on getting investments and getting large foreign and large Indian companies to set up operations within the state. Its clearly not the case that businesses are not setting up in Gujarat due to lack of talent pool.

Yes, education is the number 1 priority area that Gujarat needs to improve on, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that Gujarat is in any way less developed because people dont speak English there or because there is no "Page 3 Culture".

The writer does bring up some valid, (although unoriginal points), however, in the main, the issue they have is centred around Gujarati culture still pervading aspects of day-to-day life in Ahmedabad, therefore making the city "unsophisticated.

Modernisation is not Westernisation, I don't believe the writer knows the difference.

If the value of a City is measured on Page 3 Culture and Sophistication, then I doubt many Gujaratis would mind (or disagree!) if all our cities were described as having no value!

[shanware]

[QUOTE=GJ10;43909614]

Modernisation is not Westernisation, I don't believe the writer knows the difference.

QUOTE]

Nicely put !

[Wallst]

Originally Posted by GJ10

Regarding the article, who, in their right mind has honestly ever claimed Ahmedabad to be a "Megacity" in any sort of Global Sense?

Its nothing new or groundbreaking to say that Education/English is poor, its been a problem for decades in Gujarat.

However...

when you say



Well, even though Gujarat missed the IT bus... has it actually caught a much better ride altogether?

If we think of long-term, sustainable economic growth, my belief is that no state has prospects as bright as those of Gujarat.

Companies look at more factors than simply the labour force. There are many infrastructural and geographic advantages in Gujarat. Ports, Roads, Electricity, Water, Pro-Business Govt, Land to develop without fear of farmer protests etc etc etc

As the statistics all bear testimony to, Gujarat is not exactly short on getting investments and getting large foreign and large Indian companies to set up operations within the state. Its clearly not the case that businesses are not setting up in Gujarat due to lack of talent pool.

Yes, education is the number 1 priority area that Gujarat needs to improve on, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that Gujarat is in any way less developed because people dont speak English there or because there is no "Page 3 Culture".

The writer does bring up some valid, (although unoriginal points), however, in the main, the issue they have is centred around Gujarati culture still pervading aspects of day-to-day life in Ahmedabad, therefore making the city "unsophisticated.

Modernisation is not Westernisation, I don't believe the writer knows the difference.

If the value of a City is measured on Page 3 Culture and Sophistication, then I doubt many Gujaratis would mind (or disagree!) if all our cities were described as having no value!

Good Post,

Point I am trying to make is If avg Gujaratis were holding good command on English, then with these large investments lots of high level/technical jobs would have fall in their lap. But that is not happening. Last year I met someone in train, he was from Delhi and working as Regional Head for known Cell phone co. I asked him how many Gujaratis in your co you have at your level ? He said none. He said our biggest problem is finding talent who also knows local pulse and well in English. He said not only at my level but it is hard to find someone fluent in English at manager level. I also know someone who is Gujarati but born and brought up in Delhi. (Good command on English). He was working for private bank and in few years they gave him very good promotion (Head of Guj or something like that) and ask him to move Gujarat. Why? Because they needed someone English speaking Gujarati in Gujarat badly!

Massive IT investment went to south, and local took advantage of that very well. We all know south is less privileged than Gujarat in many terms. But Avg Joe who was living in small house in Village, Jumped in IT boom went to US and now holding multiple properties in Hyderabad. I believe that will not happen for Avg Mavjibhai living in Village of Gujarat.

What I believe large investments will come to Ahmeadabd and surrounding area, but top position will be filled by only non-gujaratis, and that’s big disadvantage for Local. Writer mentioned very correctly that Gujjus have mentality of sitting at father's small business and never ever paid importance to education, and that will ceep this city for some time, because cos will not able to hire qualified professional from local market.

Although I disagree with writer page 3 comments completely.

[GJ10]

Well, regardless of whether the employees are born in Gujarat, the fact they will have to live in Gujarat and will be earning good salaries which will be spent in Gujarat, will help local business and local economy.

And whereas South beat Gujarat in terms of IT, if you want to talk about moving outside of India and making money abroad... Gujaratis have been doing that for over 100years!

Owning small businesses may not be as glamourous an idea as jetting off to Silicon Valley and buying a sports car, but the long term asset accumulation of the International Gujarati Diaspora is not something to take lightly.

The Growth of Gujarat doesnt fit into the stereotype the world has of Indias growth, ie: IT and English Speaking, for this and other reasons, the Indian media was often hesitent to acknowledge the development going on in the State.

However, I truly believe that in 50yrs time when people look back at the early 21st Century, the Gujarat Story will be a much more important one than the IT story. I may be wrong, but I cant help but equate the Call-Centre lakhpatis to the "Yuppie" phenomenon in the West during the 80s.

And whilst the "posh" Ahmedabad columnist might deride Gujarati culture for holding us back from being "sophisticated" and "arriving" on the world scene...

In the UK, the youth are criticised for their lack of entrepeneurship and business skills, with too much of an "education = good job" mentality that is ever increasingly being proven wrong with the economic slowdown. In Britain there is a feeling that the youth have lost the Mercantile culture that made the country the first International Superpower.

I hope to never see the day when Gujarati people lose their business mindedness...

After all... even Dhirubhai was an Avg Mavjibhai once upon a time

[mihir1310]

Errr Gujaratis cannot speak English .. They make others speak Gujarati [New Jersey adding Gujarati on the voters list ]

[superdesi2100]

I don't understand why Gujarat missing the IT bus should be made out to be a huge issue. Agreed, Gujaratis have poor English but we are enterprising people. Should I say that Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh have missed the manufacturing bus? All states cannot be ahead in everything. Mumbai is far ahead in financial business doesn't mean that 'Delhi' missed the bus.

From the conversation here, it appears that gains made by the state in manufacturing, infrastructure, agriculture are not as important as gains made by Karnataka in IT. It appears that ability to speak English seems to be given more importance than ability to do business.

[Wallst]

Originally Posted by superdesi2100

I don't understand why Gujarat missing the IT bus should be made out to be a huge issue. Agreed, Gujaratis have poor English but we are enterprising people. Should I say that Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh have missed the manufacturing bus? All states cannot be ahead in everything. Mumbai is far ahead in financial business doesn't mean that 'Delhi' missed the bus.

From the conversation here, it appears that gains made by the state in manufacturing, infrastructure, agriculture are not as important as gains made by Karnataka in IT. It appears that ability to speak English seems to be given more importance than ability to do business.

Its not only IT bus or only English. Its fact that Gujaratis have not paid much importance to Education. And I believe it will or may be it is hurting Local Gujuus. Specially when you talk about Service class people.

Ambani may not able to communicate well in English but he will make sure that he keep his top guys from South or North who can communicate well in English on global front with their IIT & IIM degree.

Now defiantly Gujarat will get good benefits from all these Mfg cos... but that will help more to labor market (blue color job) but if service class Gujjus wants to come ahead in any corporation they will have to compete with South and North, and lack of solid education will be their weakest link. So what will happen avg Gujju will have less chance to move ahead in Corporate ladder.

In short all these projects coming in Gujarat, I have doubt that white collar Gujjus will able to maximize this opportunity after certain point.

[shreyas1684]

ohh..so now..my frnd wallet tryin to say tat English capabilities n professionalism of gujjus r even wrost than poorest states of india...buddy..just bcoz, superiority in english doesn't make south indians better than others. wake up..things r changing faster than u think. there r english medium schools sprawling around cities of gujarat in such a way that in near future & its bi product would bound to be highly competitive in terms of overall development.

now white collar jobs taken by non gujaratis..
Gujarat is a cosmopolitan state since its first industrial revolution period of 1960s. so, i dont think any south indian or other state (excluding metro n suburbs) is even near to gujarat in terms of cosmopolitan. BTW... .i.. (in the same manner most of gujjus) will always welcome our fellow non Gujarati Indians in gujarat n do their best to develop a whole country.

last..migration is a part of progressive development of that region, which helps economy to grow plus it brings different culture, ethnicity n knowledge while it increases competitiveness n productivity of regional community to survive.
so ultimately migration is helping Gujaratis n at the end gujarat.

[The Patel]

Originally Posted by mihir1310

Errr Gujaratis cannot speak English .. They make others speak Gujarati [New Jersey adding Gujarati on the voters list ]

Dude, I would say that Gujarati are politically and financially secure and they have good image and there forth we get our way out of anything. From building huge Temples to learning Gujarati Languages in schools, we take our culture and embrace it with great honor.

[The Patel]

Originally Posted by shreyas1684

ohh..so now..my frnd wallet tryin to say tat English capabilities n professionalism of gujjus r even wrost than poorest states of india...buddy..just bcoz, superiority in english doesn't make south indians better than others. wake up..things r changing faster than u think. there r english medium schools sprawling around cities of gujarat in such a way that in near future & its bi product would bound to be highly competitive in terms of overall development.

now white collar jobs taken by non gujaratis..
Gujarat is a cosmopolitan state since its first industrial revolution period of 1960s. so, i dont think any south indian or other state (excluding metro n suburbs) is even near to gujarat in terms of cosmopolitan. BTW... .i.. (in the same manner most of gujjus) will always welcome our fellow non Gujarati Indians in gujarat n do their best to develop a whole country.

last..migration is a part of progressive development of that region, which helps economy to grow plus it brings different culture, ethnicity n knowledge while it increases competitiveness n productivity of regional community to survive.
so ultimately migration is helping Gujaratis n at the end gujarat.

Sheryas.. You are absolutely right. Remember.. Ahmedabad was Manchester of India. There were tons of lawyers in Gujarat who went to UK for education as well as Africa to practice law. Good Example is Gandhi and Sardar Patel.

[chennaidesi]

Gujurat is developed more than any Indian state and in IT it is behind that's it.
Every state cannot be leaders in every field so it is O.K if Guj don't have call centers.
They can plan and develop soon.
Media only takes about IT that's why you feel Guj is left out.

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by Wallst

Its not only IT bus or only English. Its fact that Gujaratis have not paid much importance to Education. And I believe it will or may be it is hurting Local Gujuus. Specially when you talk about Service class people.

Ambani may not able to communicate well in English but he will make sure that he keep his top guys from South or North who can communicate well in English on global front with their IIT & IIM degree.

Now defiantly Gujarat will get good benefits from all these Mfg cos... but that will help more to labor market (blue color job) but if service class Gujjus wants to come ahead in any corporation they will have to compete with South and North, and lack of solid education will be their weakest link. So what will happen avg Gujju will have less chance to move ahead in Corporate ladder.

In short all these projects coming in Gujarat, I have doubt that white collar Gujjus will able to maximize this opportunity after certain point.

You may be right, but the point is, what % of Gujarat (or India for that matter) is White collar compared to Blue Collar?

Your concerns are really only related to Gujarati-Medium educated professionals. So yes, maybe these people "missed the boat" in terms of English speaking when they were younger, but surely, even at worst, this a bad situation for this particular group of people, rather than the State of Gujarat as a whole.

Looking forward, as Shreyas said, English Medium schools are more common nowadays, as are extra English tuitions. Ive seen this trend personally in Jamnagar and Junagadh, so I can only imagine what is happening in the larger cities.

Its really not a doom and gloom situation, by the time the kids currently in high school start graduating from colleges, the stereotype of Gujaratis not being able to speak English will start to become an outdated concept.

In the 5-6 years it will take for this to happen, do you really think any other state will be able to catch up to and keep up with the Infrastructure Development and Investment Inflows of Gujarat?

Time will be the true judge, but taking all things into consideration for the whole of the population across the whole of the State, Im extremely satisfied with the route to development that Gujarat has taken, especially in comparison to the "One Sector, One City, One Port" route in Karnataka and Andhra that so many people seem to think is the way forward...

[Gotcha]

just to smoothen out some ruffled gujju feathers here ..... this discussion is subjective. I don't think anyone can or is complaining that Gujarat 'missed the bus'. The article is the columnist's personal opinion about Gujarat and doesn't stand for much. Gujarat is moving ahead in fields other than IT - India needs a diversified economy, not one big call center. What is really needed is IP, much more than IT. That's where sound education and the knowledge of english comes into the picture.

[Cosmicbliss]

GJ10:

TN doesn't at all fit the one city, one port model that you talk about. In fact on HDI parameters TN is better than GJ. Its more urbanized than MH/GJ. TN may well be as or better placed than Gujarat. Just a thought and nothing to take offence about.

[bobbie501]

Originally Posted by GJ10

Time will be the true judge, but taking all things into consideration for the whole of the population across the whole of the State, Im extremely satisfied with the route to development that Gujarat has taken, especially in comparison to the "One Sector, One City, One Port" route in Karnataka and Andhra that so many people seem to think is the way forward..

I must Disagree with you how would you say that Southern most states are concentrating on just single city,single sector,just a single port just have a look at Vizag[Which has two ports operational] well Industrialized on the east coast,Kakinada[getting another port],Mangalore,Mysore etc etc cities which are well placed with white collar jobs.I must brush up your mind even though gujarat is industalized they don't have enough resource to feed their tummies since most of the grains are grown in Southern States.When you don't have agriculture what's the use of Industrialization?

[HKumar]

I'm not sure why discussion has moved to Gujarat vs. other Indian state.
I hope all states develop well and are equally important in the bigger picture. ie. seeing India as a developed country in our lifetime (next 30-40 years).
Nobody missed any bus, its just different states took different routes to progress with whatever resources they had in excess.
No state is perfect and self reliant (so its no use saying you eat my state's wheat, etc)
And about english, like someone pointed out above, if at all its really important to do business, gujjus will get good at it soon. I've seen a tons of fellow gujjus in chicago/ny/nj who couldnt speak english and now speak american english pretty well (but they have trouble speaking indian english).. so its just a matter of time.