Seattle Pedestrian and Biking Thread - Page 2

alexjonlin · October 20th, 2010, 01:51 AM

I think we may have talked about this a little bit before, but the U District Daily blog has something about the street closures that Councilmember Sally Clark has been floating, one of which is the Ave (http://www.udistrictdaily.com/2010/1...re-of-the-ave/). I really don't think it's a good idea for the Ave, but I think it could work in some places. For one, I think that 42nd and 43rd from 15th to Brooklyn should be closed to car traffic; they are hardly used by cars and are major thoroughfares for pedestrians already, and turning them into plazas would help the businesses on either side of the street, I think, as long as the plazas are done right. I think her suggestion of closing Ballard Ave is a good one, if just for a block or two south of Market, and it would be cool to close Pike on Capitol Hill at least on weekend nights, if not in general. Any other streets that people think should be closed?

mhays · October 20th, 2010, 06:30 AM

No, but Third and Second in northern Belltown could go down to two lanes each. They both sort of dead end and have very little traffic. Let them become linear parks with trees that would get huge in 50 years.

alexjonlin · October 20th, 2010, 06:46 AM

I would also like to see Second and Fourth in Belltown become two-way streets.

Ruffhauser · October 20th, 2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexjonlin

I would also like to see Second and Fourth in Belltown become two-way streets.

I don't know about that one. I like to be able to get from one end of the CBD to the other quickly. Those are two of the few streets where the traffic lights are synch'ed.

alexjonlin · October 21st, 2010, 03:21 AM

The CBD is for going to, not going through. It's been shown in a bunch of cases that making streets two-way does great things for their businesses. Since Belltown has lower traffic than Downtown, I think they should start by making 2nd and 4th (and maybe 5th too) two-way streets, with the eventual goal of doing that in Downtown proper as well.

Ruffhauser · October 22nd, 2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexjonlin

The CBD is for going to, not going through. It's been shown in a bunch of cases that making streets two-way does great things for their businesses. Since Belltown has lower traffic than Downtown, I think they should start by making 2nd and 4th (and maybe 5th too) two-way streets, with the eventual goal of doing that in Downtown proper as well.

I think you'd see some pretty bad traffic snarls where the two-way streets abutted the one-way streets. I think that alternating one-way streets, such as Seattle has and many cities have, would be a good thing for traffic patterns and/or keeping things moving.

Seasun · February 6th, 2011, 01:35 AM

I walked by the Trace North lofts this morning (High 5 Pie fix!) [streetview]

I realized that this garage exit/entry actually warns drivers when pedestrians are present. There are a couple of motion sensors aiming down the sidewalk. Very cool paradigm shift(?) when the drivers are being warned of peds and peds don't have to hear alarms and see flashing lights to stand clear of driveways (although peds should still be careful as the cars usually win fights!). Are there other places around here where drivers are warned with an active system and peds hear no alarms? Here's what drivers see:

Seasun · March 14th, 2011, 07:18 AM

Pretty impressive google map of stairs in Seattle.
http://seattlestairs.home.comcast.net/~seattlestairs/

CityView Jim · March 14th, 2011, 09:49 PM

Saw first hand this weekend of a 'road-dieted' street with exterior bike lines. I was in Vancouver BC. This is supposedly how Dexter Ave N. will look when completed this fall. Bicyclists will have the outer most lanes. To their left was a 2-3 foot wide buffer complete with planters and occassional trees. To the left of that is parallel parking. And then left of those are the vehicle travel lanes.

The cyclists I saw were FLYING through these lanes as they were well protected from moving vehicles. The big problem will be intersections where traffic must turn and be extra careful to look for bikes.

Seasun · May 14th, 2011, 10:13 PM

The newly fancified backside of the Sheraton exterior opened not too long ago. For as much time and money it took to do the work I hope these mirrors hold up. I also have to question the shallow canopies that are about the highest off the ground that I've seen any where - makes them pretty useless for rain protection. (Try to spot the person in the last photo and judge the height of the canopy above.)

I do like that this is an attempt to make a nice, somewhat landscaped exterior without assuming all the parking has to be removed. It could be argued that the sidewalk width needs to be a little wider - it's really narrow for a downtown street - even a relatively lightly traveled sidewalk.

Seasun · November 15th, 2011, 05:58 AM

The new multiuse trail under the south side of the Ballard Bridge opens this coming weekend. So much safer, faster and more convenient than fighting 15th Ave traffic and stairways.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportatio...analtrail2.htm

Quote:

Ship Canal Trail, Phase II

November 10, 2011

UPDATE: Trail Opens November 19th!

Phase II of the Ship Canal Trail is wrapping up with a grand opening planned for Saturday, November 19, at 11 a.m.

mhays · November 15th, 2011, 06:33 AM

That's awesome. Will help a lot of routes. Particularly for those of us that are lazy as hell, at least after several hours of riding.

Seasun · November 24th, 2011, 12:39 AM

In light of the recent coffee shop discussion...

Interesting pedestrian/traffic moment a few minutes ago. I was waiting to cross 1st/Pike intersection. Ped signal turned to walk. I started walking diagonally as allowed across the intersection. White BMW SUV runs red light going northbound. I kept walking in front of car seeing that the driver was going to realize they're entering an intersection with peds. I can be a little bold at these times. Car stopped in middle of intersection. I completed crossing with a casual stop hand/flat palm towards the driver but nothing more. (another car was also stopped in the intersection - both cars were tempted to accelerate through the intersection).

This is not that unusual that some drivers - probably even me sometimes - miscalculate distances and speed relative to yellow/red lights but hey we stop as soon as we notice it and things are generally good.

The unusual part was that a guy felt the need to jog up from behind me as I was well past the intersection and stop me to say "if you ever pull that with me driving I'm going to get out of my car and slap/hit you." I quietly said "fine" and walked on. Of course I should have said "why?" or "you mean after you run a red light?" or "what did I do wrong?" but whatever.

I didn't mean to be a dick at all - just trying to cross the street. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Some context - yes it is raining right now so drivers and pedestrians should account for increased stopping distances. Also my orange jacket and fluorescent green umbrella probably helps my visibility and hopefully makes drivers see me.

Edit: I swear that my 4 years in Berkeley trained me that cars stop for peds in that town and to a great degree in Seattle. There are only a few places I've been to where cars predictably stop for peds when they're supposed to and I like to promote the concept when possible.

mSeattle · November 24th, 2011, 01:36 AM

I was concerned there. Glad to know you were wearing bright colors. I get regular daymares in this city of some driver running me or other pedestrians/cyclists over or hitting a car in front and jumping (daredevil style) a line of cars and ramming into pedestrians/cyclists.

mhays · November 24th, 2011, 06:21 AM

You're way more pleasant than I'd be Seasun!

Seasun · December 13th, 2011, 07:29 PM

Ped/bike trail bridge has been installed over Elliott Ave.
http://downtownseattle.komonews.com/...er-elliott-ave
This is one of those investments that is a bit challenging to justify but at the same time I think it makes a chunk of lower Queen Anne more attractive to current and potential residents, visitors and workers. Even when budgets are tight I can support a few non-critical expenses.

mhays · December 13th, 2011, 08:52 PM

I don't think it's challenging at all. It connects an entire wing of greater Downtown (workers/residents/tourists) to a park, the waterfront, and a commuter bike trail.

Personally, as I usually walk back from friends' houses in Magnolia, it'll finally provide pedestrian access at night when SAM is closed and a train is in the way. (Now we need a stair from the Magnolia Bridge to the trail, to replace the one that was blocked off recently!)

Matt the Engineer · December 15th, 2011, 10:43 PM

[Seasun] Last friday I saw the next level of this happen, just a few blocks away. Two guys crossing the street at 1st and Marion at a green light, and a pickup truck nearly hits them. One of them bangs on the side of the truck as they walk by. Driver stops, hops out, and starts screaming at the two - throwing his own sunglasses (?!) and cowboy hat into the road in anger. Tries his hardest to get one of them to engage in a fist fight, and chases them down the sidewalk for half a block.

Sometimes the drivers are just as dangerous as the cars.

Matt the Engineer · December 15th, 2011, 10:51 PM

There are quite a few intersections in Seattle that are just painful for pedestrians. For two examples: 14th and Jackson or 6th and Seneca. The lights have clearly been set up to move car traffic, not pedestrians.

In an effort to make life easier for pedestrians, what should we do about these intersections? I can think of a few solutions:
1. Redesign light timings - on button push actually change signal order and let the pedestrians through. Drivers have comfortable cars to sit in, while the pedestrians are standing in the rain about to miss their bus - would it be so terrible to prioritize their travel?
2. Elevated crossings. A little ugly, and not the easiest to use, but better than nothing.
3. Mid-block crossings.

Anything options I'm missing?

BoulderGrad · December 15th, 2011, 10:52 PM

Leaving a T-birds game in Kent, a guy who mmmmight have been drunk behind the wheel almost runs the red light for the cross walk used by everyone at the game who parked in the Kent Station PNR. Almost hits 2 guys. Guy that almost got hit walks over to car and tries to open the door saying 'cmon, get out, lets go buddy...you trying to hit me with your car?' Guy in car shouts stuff back then speeds away shouting even more, we assume headed straight for the cops directing traffic in front of the arena. As the Simpsons said... 'Some people are just jerks...'

November 24th, 2011, 12:39 AM	#33
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,599 Likes (Received): 48	In light of the recent coffee shop discussion... Interesting pedestrian/traffic moment a few minutes ago. I was waiting to cross 1st/Pike intersection. Ped signal turned to walk. I started walking diagonally as allowed across the intersection. White BMW SUV runs red light going northbound. I kept walking in front of car seeing that the driver was going to realize they're entering an intersection with peds. I can be a little bold at these times. Car stopped in middle of intersection. I completed crossing with a casual stop hand/flat palm towards the driver but nothing more. (another car was also stopped in the intersection - both cars were tempted to accelerate through the intersection). This is not that unusual that some drivers - probably even me sometimes - miscalculate distances and speed relative to yellow/red lights but hey we stop as soon as we notice it and things are generally good. The unusual part was that a guy felt the need to jog up from behind me as I was well past the intersection and stop me to say "if you ever pull that with me driving I'm going to get out of my car and slap/hit you." I quietly said "fine" and walked on. Of course I should have said "why?" or "you mean after you run a red light?" or "what did I do wrong?" but whatever. I didn't mean to be a dick at all - just trying to cross the street. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Some context - yes it is raining right now so drivers and pedestrians should account for increased stopping distances. Also my orange jacket and fluorescent green umbrella probably helps my visibility and hopefully makes drivers see me. Edit: I swear that my 4 years in Berkeley trained me that cars stop for peds in that town and to a great degree in Seattle. There are only a few places I've been to where cars predictably stop for peds when they're supposed to and I like to promote the concept when possible. Last edited by Seasun; November 24th, 2011 at 12:51 AM.

November 24th, 2011, 01:36 AM	#34
mSeattle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 826 Likes (Received): 12	I was concerned there. Glad to know you were wearing bright colors. I get regular daymares in this city of some driver running me or other pedestrians/cyclists over or hitting a car in front and jumping (daredevil style) a line of cars and ramming into pedestrians/cyclists. __________________ *Too Much DOUBT - Troy Davis ExecutionYOU are Commander In Chief* of your body. Remember Bradley Manning.**

December 15th, 2011, 10:52 PM	#40
BoulderGrad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,376 Likes (Received): 43	Leaving a T-birds game in Kent, a guy who mmmmight have been drunk behind the wheel almost runs the red light for the cross walk used by everyone at the game who parked in the Kent Station PNR. Almost hits 2 guys. Guy that almost got hit walks over to car and tries to open the door saying 'cmon, get out, lets go buddy...you trying to hit me with your car?' Guy in car shouts stuff back then speeds away shouting even more, we assume headed straight for the cops directing traffic in front of the arena. As the Simpsons said... 'Some people are just jerks...' __________________ My shrink once said to me: "Maybe life isn't for everyone..."

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

October 20th, 2010, 01:51 AM	#21
alexjonlin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,284 Likes (Received): 89	I think we may have talked about this a little bit before, but the U District Daily blog has something about the street closures that Councilmember Sally Clark has been floating, one of which is the Ave (http://www.udistrictdaily.com/2010/1...re-of-the-ave/). I really don't think it's a good idea for the Ave, but I think it could work in some places. For one, I think that 42nd and 43rd from 15th to Brooklyn should be closed to car traffic; they are hardly used by cars and are major thoroughfares for pedestrians already, and turning them into plazas would help the businesses on either side of the street, I think, as long as the plazas are done right. I think her suggestion of closing Ballard Ave is a good one, if just for a block or two south of Market, and it would be cool to close Pike on Capitol Hill at least on weekend nights, if not in general. Any other streets that people think should be closed?

October 20th, 2010, 06:30 AM	#22
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,468 Likes (Received): 125	No, but Third and Second in northern Belltown could go down to two lanes each. They both sort of dead end and have very little traffic. Let them become linear parks with trees that would get huge in 50 years.

October 20th, 2010, 06:46 AM	#23
alexjonlin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,284 Likes (Received): 89	I would also like to see Second and Fourth in Belltown become two-way streets.

October 21st, 2010, 03:21 AM	#25
alexjonlin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,284 Likes (Received): 89	The CBD is for going to, not going through. It's been shown in a bunch of cases that making streets two-way does great things for their businesses. Since Belltown has lower traffic than Downtown, I think they should start by making 2nd and 4th (and maybe 5th too) two-way streets, with the eventual goal of doing that in Downtown proper as well.

February 6th, 2011, 01:35 AM	#27
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,599 Likes (Received): 48	I walked by the Trace North lofts this morning (High 5 Pie fix!) [streetview] I realized that this garage exit/entry actually warns drivers when pedestrians are present. There are a couple of motion sensors aiming down the sidewalk. Very cool paradigm shift(?) when the drivers are being warned of peds and peds don't have to hear alarms and see flashing lights to stand clear of driveways (although peds should still be careful as the cars usually win fights!). Are there other places around here where drivers are warned with an active system and peds hear no alarms? Here's what drivers see:

March 14th, 2011, 07:18 AM	#28
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,599 Likes (Received): 48	Pretty impressive google map of stairs in Seattle. http://seattlestairs.home.comcast.net/~seattlestairs/

March 14th, 2011, 09:49 PM	#29
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,044 Likes (Received): 79	Saw first hand this weekend of a 'road-dieted' street with exterior bike lines. I was in Vancouver BC. This is supposedly how Dexter Ave N. will look when completed this fall. Bicyclists will have the outer most lanes. To their left was a 2-3 foot wide buffer complete with planters and occassional trees. To the left of that is parallel parking. And then left of those are the vehicle travel lanes. The cyclists I saw were FLYING through these lanes as they were well protected from moving vehicles. The big problem will be intersections where traffic must turn and be extra careful to look for bikes.

May 14th, 2011, 10:13 PM	#30
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,599 Likes (Received): 48	The newly fancified backside of the Sheraton exterior opened not too long ago. For as much time and money it took to do the work I hope these mirrors hold up. I also have to question the shallow canopies that are about the highest off the ground that I've seen any where - makes them pretty useless for rain protection. (Try to spot the person in the last photo and judge the height of the canopy above.) I do like that this is an attempt to make a nice, somewhat landscaped exterior without assuming all the parking has to be removed. It could be argued that the sidewalk width needs to be a little wider - it's really narrow for a downtown street - even a relatively lightly traveled sidewalk.

November 15th, 2011, 06:33 AM	#32
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,468 Likes (Received): 125	That's awesome. Will help a lot of routes. Particularly for those of us that are lazy as hell, at least after several hours of riding.

November 24th, 2011, 06:21 AM	#35
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,468 Likes (Received): 125	You're way more pleasant than I'd be Seasun!

December 13th, 2011, 07:29 PM	#36
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,599 Likes (Received): 48	Ped/bike trail bridge has been installed over Elliott Ave. http://downtownseattle.komonews.com/...er-elliott-ave This is one of those investments that is a bit challenging to justify but at the same time I think it makes a chunk of lower Queen Anne more attractive to current and potential residents, visitors and workers. Even when budgets are tight I can support a few non-critical expenses.

December 13th, 2011, 08:52 PM	#37
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,468 Likes (Received): 125	I don't think it's challenging at all. It connects an entire wing of greater Downtown (workers/residents/tourists) to a park, the waterfront, and a commuter bike trail. Personally, as I usually walk back from friends' houses in Magnolia, it'll finally provide pedestrian access at night when SAM is closed and a train is in the way. (Now we need a stair from the Magnolia Bridge to the trail, to replace the one that was blocked off recently!)

December 15th, 2011, 10:43 PM	#38
Matt the Engineer Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,168 Likes (Received): 109	[Seasun] Last friday I saw the next level of this happen, just a few blocks away. Two guys crossing the street at 1st and Marion at a green light, and a pickup truck nearly hits them. One of them bangs on the side of the truck as they walk by. Driver stops, hops out, and starts screaming at the two - throwing his own sunglasses (?!) and cowboy hat into the road in anger. Tries his hardest to get one of them to engage in a fist fight, and chases them down the sidewalk for half a block. Sometimes the drivers are just as dangerous as the cars.

December 15th, 2011, 10:51 PM	#39
Matt the Engineer Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,168 Likes (Received): 109	There are quite a few intersections in Seattle that are just painful for pedestrians. For two examples: 14th and Jackson or 6th and Seneca. The lights have clearly been set up to move car traffic, not pedestrians. In an effort to make life easier for pedestrians, what should we do about these intersections? I can think of a few solutions: 1. Redesign light timings - on button push actually change signal order and let the pedestrians through. Drivers have comfortable cars to sit in, while the pedestrians are standing in the rain about to miss their bus - would it be so terrible to prioritize their travel? 2. Elevated crossings. A little ugly, and not the easiest to use, but better than nothing. 3. Mid-block crossings. Anything options I'm missing?