What does Tampa need?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by gstolze

Melbourne has 4 Million inhabitants with a lot of condos and established shopping and culture downtown. A city like that can pull off much more development and also can achieve the critical mass when it comes to attracting customers to newly developed areas.

Tampa needs to focus more on developing downtown than it did in the past. A lot has been achieved compared to 15 years ago, but there is still a long way to go.

In my opinion, Tampa needs light rail, an intermodal transportation center, a symphony hall downtown, more condos, more shopping, and, incorporated into the developments should be several reconstructions of historic buildings (e.g. court house) to create something like a gas light district between city hall and the old post office.

You have to remember that in many aspects like shopping/retail, arts and culture, food and major/sporting events, Melbourne is the most important or largest market in Australia so comparing Tampa to it, although they have similar populations, is a little unfair on Tampa as it has to compete with a much larger number of important cities in the US.

So in Australia it's really just Sydney and Melbourne that are considered big cities with Sydney only about 400K larger in population. With Melbourne currently growing at around 90-100,000 people per year it's easily the fastest growing city in Australia. So much so that with 15 years or so it could overtake Sydney to become our largest city again.

[FlaNatv]

Tampa has way too much competition in-state and regionally to grow an expansive skyline quickly. Corporate relocations and other expansions will look at OTown, Miami, Jax, (St.Pete even competes), W Palm, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.

Tampa will probably never be at the same level as Melbourne, simultaneously. However, I think Melbourne is a great city to learn from. Look at their riverfront interactions and uses, their Docklands projects, their park lands, their rail transit, their alley/pedestrian corridors, etc

BTW, It's great to have a Melbourne resident chime in...Thanks

[Dean]

Here are some of my pics of what you've just mentioned

Yarra River and CBD
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Federation Wharf - just 4 years ago these old vaults by the Yarra River were derelict and being used by squatters as housing. Now it's a vibrant area with micro breweries and cafes.
image hosted on flickr


Federation Wharf
image hosted on flickr


Melbourne Docklands Renewal
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

[FlaNatv]

That's awesome stuff!!! It would be great to turn our Ybor Channel into a marina/ redevelopment area and move the industrial uses south. We could have residential/entertainment/dining/sports stadium in that whole area.

The pedestrian bridge looks very modern and trendy...

Thanks for insight.

[DShenise]

You can't discount public marinas enough. Both Tampa and St. Pete ought to be doing more to encourage them whenever possible. The areas immediately adjacent to the Channelside (save the cruise port) from say E. York north could be re-habed into a marina, moving the "dirty" portions further south to the port proper it could invigorate the area. Tampa ought to try and avoid throwing away public money on the trend du jour. Water Taxis, pedestrian bridges, etc., sound good initially, but when you take the money that would be spent on that item, and spend it on say proper public sidewalks and prominades you get much more for the money.

[sam06pr]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

Don't mean to hijack the thread, even though its mine lol, but can you explain why? From what I have read, the pros outweight the cons on the issue. But I'm always open to learning more.

Do I think Tampa could become a Melbourne? It's always a possibility. But at the same time, Tampa will need to do a lot to reach to such a level. I'm talking about atleast 2 corporate headquarters, lots of private funding, serious improvement on all our transportation, and a lot of investment on pretty much everything in Tampa, espicially our port. Melbourne has done a great job of keeping the port so close to the city, but at the same time it is far enough to not interfere in growth. And Melbourne has also benefited with many large sporting events, including the 1956 Summer Olympics.

I must say, Melbourne has done a great job on developing many parks and green spaces. Their whole riverfront is filled with parks and golf courses. It would be like filling up the whole riverfront from University of Tampa to the Sulphur Springs Water Tower with parks.

If we drill oil..that will only last us an estimated 3 years....there is really not much out there. I mean there is but we consume too much that it will basically be depleted within a range of 3-5 yrs. It is really not worth a temporarily relief, not to mention it could also harm the a natural ecosystem if something goes wrong. We need to invest in energy that will be use in the future

anyways...All I could think for Tampa is a better transportation system. Not sure how would a metro rail work out since everything is so far spread out. But something connecting Airport, downtown, ybor, channelside, international mall, Raymond James Stadium, Busch Gardens, etc.
As for buses, I feel like Orlando has a better bus transportation than Tampa...I dunno. But like everyone has said here a more developed downtown...

[I-275westcoastfl]

I think we need more toll roads because that seems like the only way highways are being built in Florida nowadays. Since we lack highways this could be a viable option to get funding. Another thing is to do what they did in Miami on I-95 and add "Lexus Lanes" which basically will have the far left lane(s) be tolled in congested areas and charge based on the congestion. It is a good system which collects revenue and is efficient for those who pay.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

I think we need more toll roads because that seems like the only way highways are being built in Florida nowadays.

NO NO. I'm not sure how but Americans have to start weaning themselves off major roads and highways and start embracing mass transportation in the form of heavy/light rail.

A city metro with 4 million people that doesn't have any sort of heavy rail system and a minimal light rail system is really holding Tampa back. The massive sprawl - which is also a major problem for Melbourne - doesn't help either.

In contrast my home city of Melbourne is only slightly larger in population but has an extensive/intensive heavy and light rail system as well as buses. I'm not exactly sure but i think Melbourne's Tram network is in top 3 or 4 largest in the world with 500 trams and 250km's of track.

Melbourne's Metro Trains


Melbourne's Trams - Yarra Trams

[sam06pr]

That is awesome...THe thing that is keeping us from having mass transportation is the sprawl. Its pretty sad. But I am not sure how we can pull of trains in Tampa....

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sam06pr

That is awesome...THe thing that is keeping us from having mass transportation is the sprawl. Its pretty sad. But I am not sure how we can pull of trains in Tampa....

I understand. Starting with an expanded tram network is a good start but your government just has to bite the bullet and and borrow and invest in public infrastructure and expand it over many years. I know it will cost billions but the benefits for future generations will far outway the costs.

If you want to stop major corporations leaving/relocating or enticing them to set up shop in Tampa as well as enticing people to migrate(which is directly related to major corps leaving/coming to Tampa) then it's really a must do NOW. Remember most people go where it's safe and where the jobs are.

[TampaMike]

Tampa should had bite Tallahassee in the ass to include funding for the HSR expansion from Tampa to St. Petersburg. It will be some time before we need a commuter rail, even though it would be nice to have it now, but I'd rather connect both sides of the bay with High Speed Rail to make Tampa destination stop for people going from Orlando to maybe a stop near PIE to jump on a light rail system to Clearwater Beach.

On the topic of toll roads, I think more along the lines of a Crosstown Expressway along our highways would be better off. Maybe start building our highways out to include 3 normal highway lanes and 2 toll roads that will also be a part of BSR. Visitors and residents in the Tampa Bay area that don't travel on I-275 or I-4 can take the normal lanes to avoid paying tolls and residents while residents that may need to travel from Tampa to St. Petersburg in the morning for work can purchase yearly toll passes like the SunPass. For visitors, they can buy visitor passes at a Hertz or something and will be billed later.

And thank you Dean for some common sense. If only most of our residents were like you. I don't know how many times I have mentioned that corporations and people are becoming aware of the benefits of light rail and other mass transportation options that it's become more of an necessity then just an option.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by Dean

NO NO. I'm not sure how but Americans have to start weaning themselves off major roads and highways and start embracing mass transportation in the form of heavy/light rail.

A city metro with 4 million people that doesn't have any sort of heavy rail system and a minimal light rail system is really holding Tampa back. The massive sprawl - which is also a major problem for Melbourne - doesn't help either.

In contrast my home city of Melbourne is only slightly larger in population but has an extensive/intensive heavy and light rail system as well as buses. I'm not exactly sure but i think Melbourne's Tram network is in top 3 or 4 largest in the world with 500 trams and 250km's of track.

Melbourne's Metro Trains

We do need mass transit but because of our sprawl and layout we do need highways as well. Over the years whining residents and lack of funding have killed the highways networks our metro desperately needs so instead we are sprawled out with a bunch of artery roads with poor light timing. Light rail would work in the true urban areas of Tampa Bay but those areas only include parts of Tampa, St. Petersburg and misc parts of Pinellas County. The rest of the metro area it would be very difficult to set up a mass transit network that would be more efficient than highways.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

And thank you Dean for some common sense. If only most of our residents were like you. I don't know how many times I have mentioned that corporations and people are becoming aware of the benefits of light rail and other mass transportation options that it's become more of an necessity then just an option.

np.

Just as a matter of interest. Can you tell me what is Tampa's current yearly population growth?

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by Dean

np.

Just as a matter of interest. Can you tell me what is Tampa's current yearly population growth?

I can't find an annual growth rate, but from 2000 to 2008, it's around 12.4% increase.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

I can't find an annual growth rate, but from 2000 to 2008, it's around 12.4% increase.

That's still strong growth. Having great weather year round will certainly help Tampa's cause no doubt.

Obviously what's hurting the area atm is the massively depressed housing market and a general lack of investment by corporations as a result of your GFC.

[Nexis]

With all the Tolls in Florida , I'm still wondering why you guys aren't using them as Cash Collectors for your many projects, like Future Transit?

[JBrisco]

Originally Posted by Nexis

With all the Tolls in Florida , I'm still wondering why you guys aren't using them as Cash Collectors for your many projects, like Future Transit?

Its cos Tampa only owns 1 toll way.
The veterans expressway is a Florida Turnpike Highway, therefore the state collects the money, not the metro. Orlando seems to get all the money for toll roads.
Tampa is going to need more solid industries to stay alive. ALL industries not just one. I'm probably going to leave Tampa if the regional leaders don't realize this. Can't rely on tourism anymore. What CAN Tampa do to compete with these other cities in terms of tourism? Not much, they should focus on building Tampa as a CITY not as a tourist destination. Tourism will come as the city grows.

[sam06pr]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

We do need mass transit but because of our sprawl and layout we do need highways as well. Over the years whining residents and lack of funding have killed the highways networks our metro desperately needs so instead we are sprawled out with a bunch of artery roads with poor light timing. Light rail would work in the true urban areas of Tampa Bay but those areas only include parts of Tampa, St. Petersburg and misc parts of Pinellas County. The rest of the metro area it would be very difficult to set up a mass transit network that would be more efficient than highways.

I could see mass transit along dale mabry from bears to pass I 275, Same goes for Hillsborough, Busch, Fowler,Florida, armenia and Kennedy. Just make them all go one direction (no turns, just straight to follow the roads) and then a crazy connection between downtown, airport, ybor city and channelside.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Don't get me wrong so can I but compare other metros of similar size and even less sprawl we do lack highways. Pinellas County except the northern part is set up perfectly for mass transit, just needs and effective one.

[gstolze]

We need to think long range here. Tampa Bay needs rail mass transit as a back bone of new development. Along the rail corridors should be high density development/redevelopment. That would generate ridership and leave more room for new green space elsewhere.