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Old January 22nd, 2016, 12:15 PM   #10881
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Originally Posted by mandonov View Post
The City of Sydney's plan is to get rid of everything that is on Martin Place. That includes the fountain, amphitheatre, and all station entrances, but doesn't include the cenotaph.

The lift to the station will be moved into 60 Martin Place during its redevelopment, and the Shopping Circle entry will be moved into whatever replaces Tiffany's. That leaves the stairs outside MLC (which is their responsibility), the station entry outside Channel 7, and the fountain/stage which is CoS's job to get rid of.
Looks good. Love what CoS is doing.

What I think also needs to be done to fix Martin Place and make it feel like a proper Square is to make the pavement right at the top of Martin Place (Macquarie Street) flush all the way down to George Street and make it a pedestrian priority zone.

Currently, Martin place is divided into 4 separate sections divided by Phillip Street, Elizabeth Street, Castlereagh Street and Pitt Street.

Making the pavement flush from top to bottom, will mean that traffic crossing Martin Place at Phillip, Elizabeth, Castlereagh and Pitt will effectively be driving up and onto the Martin Place 'pedestrian' zone.

I'm not suggesting blocking off any streets, traffic can still go through albeit slowly, just make the pavement flush all the way down so that it feels pedestrians take priority and not cars.

Martin Place will look and feel much more impressive that way. This is the ceremonial heart of CBD, and currently we have cars and buses roaring through it, which I don't think is right.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 12:22 PM   #10882
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That's also part of the plan.

Along with a bunch of outdoor dining and movable seating.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 12:32 PM   #10883
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That's also part of the plan.

Along with a bunch of outdoor dining and movable seating.
Really? Wow they are going to make the pavement in Martin Place flush from Macquarie Street down to George? Thats amazing! I never thought this city would ever contemplate doing something like that!

Martin Place will look so much better! Can't wait.

Btw. Just to clarify, they are going to get rid of the station entrance/stairs next to Channel 7 right? Hope so...
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 01:28 PM   #10884
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Really? Wow they are going to make the pavement in Martin Place flush from Macquarie Street down to George? Thats amazing! I never thought this city would ever contemplate doing something like that!

Martin Place will look so much better! Can't wait.

Btw. Just to clarify, they are going to get rid of the station entrance/stairs next to Channel 7 right? Hope so...
Not sure about Macquarie Street, but George will be pedestrianised at Martin Place anyway.

It really depends on if they can find a way to replace it somehow. They could just make the new entry built with the metro big enough, or incorporate some escalators into 60 Martin Place (although that doesn't seem to be in scope), or maybe even a future redevelopment of 65 Martin Place.

That entrance and the MLC one are still up in the air.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 01:30 PM   #10885
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Don't get too excited though. CoS is extremely slow in implementing these Public Domain Strategies. The Chinatown one was released 5 years ago and only 2/5 projects are complete, with no indication of any others starting soon.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 11:26 AM   #10886
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I was just reading through the most recent 'Direct Line' Q&A that Howard Collins did, and he mentioned that Sydney Trains is considering platform screen doors at Town Hall in the long term. I wonder if limiting certain rolling stock to certain lines is what they plan to do to solve the different door spacing problem, i.e only Waratah's on T1.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #10887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandonov View Post
I was just reading through the most recent 'Direct Line' Q&A that Howard Collins did, and he mentioned that Sydney Trains is considering platform screen doors at Town Hall in the long term. I wonder if limiting certain rolling stock to certain lines is what they plan to do to solve the different door spacing problem, i.e only Waratah's on T1.
Depends how soon they mean by long term, do they mean await another fleet generation?
Currently, of the three sectors that service Town Hall, only Tangaras and Waratahs have a big enough fleet to run one of these sectors exclusively , but both have too many for one sector and not enough for two. Then of course, are the C, K, M, and soon to be the Oscars cascaded down, none of which have enough for a sector alone. (unless somebody knows of two types that have identical door positioning). Even if the "odd" ones were to be restricted to non- Town Hall lines, that means only Cumberland, Olympic Park, Carlingford (uses SFA carriages and will be LR soon anyway), and soon to be the Penrith to Syd Terminal (which would eventually use the new intercity fleet for 12 car trains - unless any existing ones such as M or Oscar are capable of lengthening to 12).
So really, only two of those three sectors could have fleet exclusivity in the foreseeable future.

Alternatively, they could install variable positioned screen doors (somebody put a link in, not sure which country it was), but basically the entire length of the platform just had doors side by side (on two continual runners, so each door was able to slide either direction behind or in front of either adjacent doors), so no matter what rolling stock was next, it could open at the correct position. The platform floor also had computerised LED illumination to indicate where the next trans doors shall be.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:36 PM   #10888
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A salutary lesson to those who so casually toss out the "upgrade the signalling" line as some sort of magic bullet that will massively increase the capacity of the existing network for a few dollars:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/no-end-in-...22-gmbwig.html

Implementing DTRS is possibly an order of magnitude simpler than implementing in-cab signalling and CBTC. Indeed it is the first baby step towards being able to put together such an upgrade
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Old January 25th, 2016, 05:10 AM   #10889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintpot View Post
A salutary lesson to those who so casually toss out the "upgrade the signalling" line as some sort of magic bullet that will massively increase the capacity of the existing network for a few dollars:



http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/no-end-in-...22-gmbwig.html



Implementing DTRS is possibly an order of magnitude simpler than implementing in-cab signalling and CBTC. Indeed it is the first baby step towards being able to put together such an upgrade

I worked on the project for a bit...total shit fight on both the govt and contractor end. Not really mentioned in that article but the key issue for about 12 months with the DTRS was the software for the in-cab console
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:08 AM   #10890
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Does anyone know what the capacities of the various London underground lines are, especially the Central line. And what the proposed upgrades are all abut?
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:39 AM   #10891
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Does anyone know what the capacities of the various London underground lines are, especially the Central line. And what the proposed upgrades are all abut?

The most frequent lines are the Central and Victoria, both of which max out at about 34 tph in peak. Jubilee can also operate at that but I don't think it does.

Tube trains supposedly have a capacity of about 900 people
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-t.../rolling-stock

You can add a bit to that with crush loading. Call it an absolute max of maybe 1100 per train, x 34 trains = 37,400 pax ph pd

Not bad for a small diameter legacy service without platform screen doors and with some station congestion issues. I'm not fully up to date but most of the effort in recent upgrades has been to get ATO/moving block signalling rolled out

The first tube line with some form of ATO was the Victoria, from opening in the 1970s although it was quite a primitive system. It could run on automatic (but didn't) but was fixed block.

Jubilee Line extension (that opened 1999) was originally specced to be moving block but they couldn't get it to work reliably enough, and were heading for a major delay in handover. One of the things that got value engineered out of the project was this, they opened it with an old-tech fixed block system instead and decided to sort it out later, as they had to open for the Millenium

During the short-lived PPP era in the noughties (this was when I was working on it, for Tube Lines) a ton of money was tipped into upgrading all the deep tubes to run on proper ATO. Whilst I was there the Jubilee and Northern lines were upgraded progressively by Tube Lines, and Metronet upgraded the Victoria and Central lines.

There are more upgrades in the pipeline to further increase capacity (full moving block) and provide better customer comfort (aircon, basically)
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-imp...ube-for-london
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:49 AM   #10892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintpot View Post
The most frequent lines are the Central and Victoria, both of which max out at about 34 tph in peak. Jubilee can also operate at that but I don't think it does.

Tube trains supposedly have a capacity of about 900 people
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-t.../rolling-stock

You can add a bit to that with crush loading. Call it an absolute max of maybe 1100 per train, x 34 trains = 37,400 pax ph pd

Not bad for a small diameter legacy service without platform screen doors and with some station congestion issues. I'm not fully up to date but most of the effort in recent upgrades has been to get ATO/moving block signalling rolled out

The first tube line with some form of ATO was the Victoria, from opening in the 1970s although it was quite a primitive system. It could run on automatic (but didn't) but was fixed block.

Jubilee Line extension (that opened 1999) was originally specced to be moving block but they couldn't get it to work reliably enough, and were heading for a major delay in handover. One of the things that got value engineered out of the project was this, they opened it with an old-tech fixed block system instead and decided to sort it out later, as they had to open for the Millenium

During the short-lived PPP era in the noughties (this was when I was working on it, for Tube Lines) a ton of money was tipped into upgrading all the deep tubes to run on proper ATO. Whilst I was there the Jubilee and Northern lines were upgraded progressively by Tube Lines, and Metronet upgraded the Victoria and Central lines.

There are more upgrades in the pipeline to further increase capacity (full moving block) and provide better customer comfort (aircon, basically)
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-imp...ube-for-london
I saw that link before and the numbers made me wonder if its possible to reverse engineer..

Quote:
Bakerloo line
25% more capacity (the equivalent of up to 9,000 customers per hour)

Central line
25% more capacity (the equivalent of up to 12,000 customers per hour)

Piccadilly line
60% more capacity (the equivalent of up to 21,000 customers per hour)

Waterloo & City line
50% more capacity (the equivalent of up to 7,000 customers per hour)
Not sure though about the Waterloo and City line. If 50% more capacity equals 7,000 per hour then the original capacity is 14,000. Doesn't that equate to roughly 14 tph by your figures?

Also, how do they manage to get 34tph with fixed block?
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:57 AM   #10893
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Quote:
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Also, how do they manage to get 34tph with fixed block?
Short blocks, low speed in the simplest possible terms
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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:00 AM   #10894
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Short blocks, low speed in the simplest possible terms
Yeah that makes perfect sense
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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:03 AM   #10895
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Not sure though about the Waterloo and City line. If 50% more capacity equals 7,000 per hour then the original capacity is 14,000. Doesn't that equate to roughly 14 tph by your figures?
You can look it up if you like - the service is actually timetabled and it's in the public domain, although not widely publicised by TfL
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube/timetable/wa...SelectedTime=8

Looks like every 3 minutes in peak so 20 tph

I've never even travelled on the "Drain" nor worked on it fwiw. It's a very specific service, I only ever lived south of the river once (there be dragons)
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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:09 AM   #10896
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Short blocks, low speed in the simplest possible terms
Most of them operate at around 60kph in the central areas as stations are quite close. It might seem faster because they're bloody noisy, but they're not quick (hey, still beats walking pace between Milsons Point and Wollstonecraft though )

Also I believe the braking characteristics of a tube train are quite good, something to do with the numbers of driving wheels per train and the traction system. I'm not a rolling stock geek so don't know the facts/details - ie don't quote me on it, but I think they can get quite smart deceleration out of the trains. This would mean less overlap required on the signalling blocks
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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:14 AM   #10897
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^Also worth pointing out that Moscow's Circle Line has always operated at 30tph despite a prehistoric signalling system. You can set your watch by it as well, it's super-reliable

I don't know how they do it. Maybe the threat of 10 years in a labour camp for drivers running late, maybe they don't GAS about the risk of front-rear collisions, but it's very frequent
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Old January 28th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #10898
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Not sure though about the Waterloo and City line. If 50% more capacity equals 7,000 per hour then the original capacity is 14,000. Doesn't that equate to roughly 14 tph by your figures?
It only runs (and can only run) with four car trains. The additional capacity will come by upgrading to 30tph.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 09:40 AM   #10899
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I have to give credit where credit is due, the new signage around all the train stations look absolutely superb!

The new signage is clear, uses large contemporary fonts and are minimalistic and modern.

Really makes a big difference to the overall look and feel of the station, looks so much more presentable.

Well done Transport for NSW.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:44 AM   #10900
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Hornsby Junction Remodelling and Commuter Car Park

The rail component of this project is basically a turnback track north of the station, aligned between the platform 1 & 2 tracks, so that any North Shore trains which terminate can set down on Platform 2, then run into the new turnback, then into Platform 1 on the up trip, rather than using platform 1 itself to turn back (which can cause a clash if another North Shore up train originating at Berowra is still at the platform)

Oddly enough just 8-10 years ago, the "clearways" program involved segregating the Northern line onto a new turnback, so as to avoid a similar clash between terminating Northern trains and up CC/Newcastle trains on plat 3.

However in that project, they went to the expense of building a fifth platform, when they could have instead just done the same as now - ie, placed a turnback north of the station, aligned between the platform 3 & 4 tracks.

For the cost of the fifth platform, they could have made BOTH turnback tracks, ie, the Northern line turnback linked to 3 & 4, as well as the planned North Shore line turnback linked to 1 & 2.


http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/site...nuary-2016.pdf
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