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Old July 16th, 2018, 09:00 PM   #1
MaTTiC
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Stadia Designers Cup ★★★★ SR Brașov

[COLOR="#004080"]



Huh... Of course I had to left everything for the last moment, so keep inform me when you find any failures in regulations, website, etc. Thanks!

Anyway...

Hello everyone in this beautiful, post-World Cup evening! Blah, blah... I`m pretty sure you`re interested in details of competition task, right? Usualy I was posting a whole or almost whole regulations here, but this time I`ll share just the most important part, ok? Full regulations and direct link to the land plot model you`ll find HERE... And now - the frosting on the cake! Competition task!

Quote:
3. Subject of the Competition

3.1
The essential of the Competition is to design a concept of a hypothetical new stadium in the City of Brasov which is going to be a successor of historical Silviu Ploeșteanu Stadium - current homeground of the official Competition partner, namely SR Brașov.

3.2

The proposal concept must meet the major conditions of 3rd category of UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations.

3.3
The proposal concept must meet Organizers and the host of hypothetical new stadium (SR Brașov) expectations, which are as follows:
  • to refer to the history and heritage of host-club SR Brașov, City of Brasov and historical region of Transylvania;
  • to fit in the area on the site plot designated by Organizers;
  • to have a capacity between 18 000-20 000 seats;
  • to keep all functions of so called “main stand” on the north, in the stand along the Strada Stadionului;
  • to keep orientation of the playing field along west-east axis;
  • to revamp old or build a brand new facility (resembling a mountain cabin) in the west corner of the site which would accommodate a club store, restaurant/pub, mini-hotel and ticket sales point (no floor plans required);
  • to keep an unobstructed view on Tâmpa mountain and Carpathians landscape from main stand.

3.4
The proposal concept must also meet the Supporters of SR Brașov expectations, which are as follows:
  • to keep stands behind the goals as close to the playing field as possible;
  • to make the stadium patron’s name “Silviu Ploeşteanu” be visible on the stadium’s facade (potential commercial name must involve patron’s name);
  • to focus around the theme of mountainous landscape and lifestyle;
  • to preserve the “Rezistenta din Munti” mural from south-west corner of current stadium and implement it into new one, preferably in the same corner;
  • to give it a “Galben-negrii” (yellow-black) feeling as a whole.

3.5
Competition branding and Competition partners logos must be well exposed in the proposal concept interior, e.g. on LED adboards around the playing field.
---
Update no. 1

Before
Quote:
3.3
[...]
  • to keep playing field in unchanged position
After
Quote:
3.3
[...]
  • to keep orientation of the playing field along west-east axis
Update no. 2

Before
Quote:
5.1
The agenda of the Competition is as follows:
  • [...]
  • deadline date: 30 IX 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • competition entries verification and potential corrections: 1 X 2018;
  • public and jury vote: 2 X 2018, 18:00 CET - 14 X 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • final results announcement: 11 XI 2018, 20:00 CET.
After
Quote:
5.1
The agenda of the Competition is as follows:
  • [...]
  • deadline date: 28 X 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • competition entries verification and potential corrections: 29 X 2018;
  • public and jury vote: 30 X 2018, 18:00 CET - 9 XI 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • final results announcement: 11 XI 2018, 20:00 CET.
Update no. 3

Before
Quote:
5.1
The agenda of the Competition is as follows:
  • [...]
  • deadline date: 28 X 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • competition entries verification and potential corrections: 29 X 2018;
  • public and jury vote: 30 X 2018, 18:00 CET - 9 XI 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • final results announcement: 11 XI 2018, 20:00 CET.
After
Quote:
5.1
The agenda of the Competition is as follows:
  • [...]
  • deadline date: 4 XI 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • competition entries verification and potential corrections: 5 XI 2018;
  • public and jury vote: 6 XI 2018, 18:00 CET - 16 XI 2018, 23:59.59 CET;
  • final results announcement: 18 XI 2018, 20:00 CET.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 10:35 PM   #2
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Thanks for this!!!

Quick question, is 20k a realistic capacity for a 3rd division Romanian side who, even when they were in the top division, only averaged 3,200?
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Old July 16th, 2018, 10:42 PM   #3
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That number comes straight from the club. That`s their and the City amibition for the future. You may consider various configurations where capacity could be downgraded by covering parts of the stands with huge ads. Club doesn`t require it by as a Jury member I would consider this particular or other solution very clever

btw. Haven`t you heard about Widzew Łódź? Legendary, polish club which currently plays in III Liga (4th playing level) and they sold out all season tickets two seasons in a row!
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Old July 16th, 2018, 11:08 PM   #4
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Widzew just promoted to the 3rd league!
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Old July 16th, 2018, 11:17 PM   #5
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Actually to II Liga, but you`re right! II Liga it`s a 3rd playing level in Poland
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Old July 16th, 2018, 11:24 PM   #6
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I said 3rd league, not III Liga.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 11:26 PM   #7
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Mea culpa Ok, end of this OFF TOP! :p
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Old July 17th, 2018, 01:59 AM   #8
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Firstly, I agree with Leedsrule's assertion that the capacity is, como se dice, much larger than they will ever need. But that is what the client wants, so that's what we work to.

Secondly, is there any specific competition branding we should be using, or do we just make those ourselves?

Thirdly, those regulations are almost exactly what I was expecting, so I guess that means that my site research was good. Poiana Brasov is such a beautiful little area.

Fourthly, we have two less weeks to do this than previous editions of the competition. It's worth everyone remembering that. I am sure glad that I did a lot of component modelling in the last couple of weeks!

Fifthly, is there any parking requirements outside those of the 3rd category of UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations (article 15.01 "minimum of two buses and ten cars" and article 26.01 "100")

Sixthly - Tonight I will be printing out a site map and sketching my rough ideas, as well as laying out my schedule for work on the site. I'll be sure to keep copious notes and photos to share with you all after the competition in my construction diary!

Seventhly - is there any regulation in section 4 beyond point 12 on your website? The footer is cutting it off and I just want to make sure.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTTiC View Post
That number comes straight from the club. That`s their and the City amibition for the future. You may consider various configurations where capacity could be downgraded by covering parts of the stands with huge ads. Club doesn`t require it by as a Jury member I would consider this particular or other solution very clever
Good luck to them on their ambition but surely the best way to do this is to build a stadium suitable for their current needs and then look to expand it in future? as mentioned above if they averaged around 3000 in the top flight then they must like having empty seats.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 08:51 AM   #10
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CSU Craiova used to have a 5.500 average in the 2015-2016 season. They got a new stadium and now close to 100% every match. That's how it works in Romania...
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Old July 17th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pompeyfan View Post
Firstly, I agree with Leedsrule's assertion that the capacity is, como se dice, much larger than they will ever need. But that is what the client wants, so that's what we work to. [...]
I`ll answer to your quote using... your qoute "That is what the client wants, so that's what we work to." However, I`ll ask the Club for explanation.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by pompeyfan View Post
Secondly, is there any specific competition branding we should be using, or do we just make those ourselves? [...]
I knew I forgot about something! Todays afternoon I`ll upload all necessary materials to my dropbox and share them with you.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by pompeyfan View Post
Thirdly, those regulations are almost exactly what I was expecting, so I guess that means that my site research was good. Poiana Brasov is such a beautiful little area.

Fourthly, we have two less weeks to do this than previous editions of the competition. It's worth everyone remembering that. I am sure glad that I did a lot of component modelling in the last couple of weeks! [...]
One of the most important difference between last three and current edition. I`d like to close designing phase till October when students gets back to University. In summer time we have the most free time to spare, right? If we would stick to traditional three months we would get into two weeks of October where students (at lest some of them) switch their priorities to Uni. Why do I care so much about students? Well, if you have a full time job you`re f...ed all year long

However, good to know that someone actually has read the regulations!

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by pompeyfan View Post
Fifthly, is there any parking requirements outside those of the 3rd category of UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations (article 15.01 "minimum of two buses and ten cars" and article 26.01 "100") [...]
If you`ll meet UEFA requirements that would be enough.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by pompeyfan View Post
FSixthly - Tonight I will be printing out a site map and sketching my rough ideas, as well as laying out my schedule for work on the site. I'll be sure to keep copious notes and photos to share with you all after the competition in my construction diary!

Seventhly - is there any regulation in section 4 beyond point 12 on your website? The footer is cutting it off and I just want to make sure.
Point 4.12 is the last one

* * *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christchurch View Post
Good luck to them on their ambition but surely the best way to do this is to build a stadium suitable for their current needs and then look to expand it in future? as mentioned above if they averaged around 3000 in the top flight then they must like having empty seats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxi1921 View Post
CSU Craiova used to have a 5.500 average in the 2015-2016 season. They got a new stadium and now close to 100% every match. That's how it works in Romania...
Let`s have hope that SR Brasov will go the Widzew`s and Craiova`s way! There was a poll in my city when a new stadium was in planning phase. One of the questions was: Why you did not come back to the stadium after your first visit? You`ll be amazed how many times people answered with "It`s outdated and uncomfortable". People nowadays are very... fussy and praise the cosiness. Of course on the first place will always be the results of the team but giving it a nice package will help to do the job!
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Old July 17th, 2018, 09:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxi1921 View Post
CSU Craiova used to have a 5.500 average in the 2015-2016 season. They got a new stadium and now close to 100% every match. That's how it works in Romania...

Not really, they averaged between 15 and 20.000 on the new stadium.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 10:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
to have a capacity between 18 000-20 000 seats
That sound's reasonable for a first division team but seems completely over the top for a third division club. Why not have us design a 5k stadium with a fully developed main stand and show the expansion options for later years separatly?

Quote:
to keep all functions of so called “main stand” on the north, in the stand along the Strada Stadionului
VIPs, press members, cameras, and the substitute benches would all have the sun blinding them for afternoon games. Usually the west stand is the main stand such that all the important people sit comfortably in the main stands shadow.

What is the reasoning behind that requirement?
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Old July 17th, 2018, 11:30 AM   #14
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I sent your questions to the club. I`ll post answer here ASAP. I had my doubts same as you guys, but having an official partner has its advantages and disadvantages as well. Be patient and I`ll be back soon with answers soon.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 11:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTTiC View Post
I`ll answer to your quote using... your qoute "That is what the client wants, so that's what we work to." However, I`ll ask the Club for explanation.
I imagine that would have come about through extensive commercial investigation of the potential growth of the club, and future revenue streams for both the club and the site in question. They would have needed to - they can't go to a credible bank without one, and no credible government agency will hand over funds either without it. I would have thought somewhere around 12k would have been more likely, but if the numbers support it, the numbers support it.

In simpler english, a lot of research, surveys and number crunching would have gone on to reach that capacity figure.

Quote:
VIPs, press members, cameras, and the substitute benches would all have the sun blinding them for afternoon games. Usually the west stand is the main stand such that all the important people sit comfortably in the main stands shadow.

What is the reasoning behind that requirement?
If I can just tack on to this point - what functions are there presently? I assume club offices, press and media facilities, VIP spaces, change rooms and associated matchday spaces?

Might I add - is there any desire for closed VIP boxes outside of the boxes that are required for the UEFA requirements (stadium control room, TV box)? Or do they prefer open VIP boxes (similar to what is presently on the site)? I ask because if there are a significant number of closed VIP boxes, that significantly changes the layout of the main stand, especially considering we can't move the pitch location.

Anyway, I better post a picture to reward MaTTiC for putting up with my incessant queries.

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Old July 17th, 2018, 11:49 AM   #16
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Official SR Brașov statement:

Quote:
Took a look over the entire thread and we understand their concern regarding the stadium being too big for our current needs.

In Romania, a new stadium tends to excite the city's people and drive them twords attending matches. Such examples include Cluj, Ploiesti and Craiova. Moreover, a new stadium would integrate in the greater plan of Brasov's development as a city, which also includes building an international airport in the next 3-5 years, thus an 18-20 thousand stadium would become appealing for hosting the National team's matches, as well as for hosting concerts or festivals.

A new stadium such as this is on the city's to-do list, but only as long as it can serve these multiple purposes: home for the football club, can host the Romanian national team, can host concerts/festivals.

Regarding this: "VIPs, press members, cameras, and the substitute benches would all have the sun blinding them for afternoon games. Usually the west stand is the main stand such that all the important people sit comfortably in the main stands shadow.

What is the reasoning behind that requirement?"

The reasoning is quite simple: it's just how they did it in the begining. The main stand (alongside str. Stadionului) was built in the 1930's and we assume they chose it's current position because of it facing the mountains. The view behind it involves houses.

When the second stand was built in 1956, they just went along with how things traditionally were and didn't even consider moving the benches and VIP boxes. The current second stand includes a construction (the one on which it reads FC Brasov) that was designed in 2001 to be an alternate VIP box and serve for TV cameras as well, but was never finished and used to its full intent.

Also, the hardcore part of our supporters sit in the second stand, so that's a thing we wouldn't want to change, hence a reason for the VIP boxes to remain in the main stand and maybe have the 2nd stand's 2001 construction repurposed for TV and press crews, thus avoind sun problems during afternoon matches. It's also more generous in space than the main stand's current set up and has expansion room.

P.S. we never expressed this verbally, we just assumed it's self understood that the stadium's stands would have to be fully covered.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 11:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
In simpler english, a lot of research, surveys and number crunching would have gone on to reach that capacity figure.
Good one.

From personal professional experience: Does not happen.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 12:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
can host concerts
That requirement should be integrated into the scope of the competition. It has a lot of consequences in terms of escape routes, sightlines, number of toilets etc.

Quote:
Also, the hardcore part of our supporters sit in the second stand, so that's a thing we wouldn't want to change, hence a reason for the VIP boxes to remain in the main stand and maybe have the 2nd stand's 2001 construction repurposed for TV and press crews, thus avoind sun problems during afternoon matches.
UEFA states that VIP and media facilities must both be on the main stand. So a clarification is needed here what we can or can not do in terms of splitting up VIP and media facilities.

My preferred option would be to use the south stand as the main stand and include everything there. I see no problem having room for the hard core fans on the south stand as well. Just another requirement to be met.

Quote:
P.S. we never expressed this verbally, we just assumed it's self understood that the stadium's stands would have to be fully covered.
That makes it very difficult if not impossible to not obstruct the view towards the mountains from the north stand. Another good reason to move the main stand south.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 12:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTTiC View Post
In Romania, a new stadium tends to excite the city's people and drive them twords attending matches. Such examples include Cluj, Ploiesti and Craiova. Moreover, a new stadium would integrate in the greater plan of Brasov's development as a city, which also includes building an international airport in the next 3-5 years, thus an 18-20 thousand stadium would become appealing for hosting the National team's matches, as well as for hosting concerts or festivals.

A new stadium such as this is on the city's to-do list, but only as long as it can serve these multiple purposes: home for the football club, can host the Romanian national team, can host concerts/festivals.
So that makes sense. In particular, the provision for hosting concerts and festivals, which in many cases provides a number of additional site usage dates, ergo my earlier comment about revenue streams on the site. It being city-driven in regard to capacity is not surprising then.

Quote:
The reasoning is quite simple: it's just how they did it in the begining. The main stand (alongside str. Stadionului) was built in the 1930's and we assume they chose it's current position because of it facing the mountains. The view behind it involves houses.

When the second stand was built in 1956, they just went along with how things traditionally were and didn't even consider moving the benches and VIP boxes. The current second stand includes a construction (the one on which it reads FC Brasov) that was designed in 2001 to be an alternate VIP box and serve for TV cameras as well, but was never finished and used to its full intent.

Also, the hardcore part of our supporters sit in the second stand, so that's a thing we wouldn't want to change, hence a reason for the VIP boxes to remain in the main stand and maybe have the 2nd stand's 2001 construction repurposed for TV and press crews, thus avoind sun problems during afternoon matches. It's also more generous in space than the main stand's current set up and has expansion room.

P.S. we never expressed this verbally, we just assumed it's self understood that the stadium's stands would have to be fully covered.
So that somewhat clears up my query regarding the TV box and control room, but is there any desire for closed VIP boxes on the main stand or just open boxes in the style of the ones already there?

Also worth noting the desire for stands to be fully covered - it will make it a lot more difficult to keep an unobstructed view on Tâmpa mountain. Doable, but more difficult.

Quote:
Good one.

From personal professional experience: Does not happen.
Also from personal professional experience: That's (usually) why a project failed. If you fail to plan, including your market and commercial potential, you plan to fail.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 12:23 PM   #20
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I have some other points that need clarification:

How many wheelchair positions should be included? According to UEFA's guide a 18 000 capacity stadium requires 140 positions, a 20 000 capacity stadium requires 150 positions. That piece is going to be EU regulation and should be met by new stadium projects!

Can I use German legislation for the dimensions of escape routes, stairways, vormitories etc.? It's quite common that German legislation is used even in foreign stadium projects given the level of sophistication that it offers ...

Are there any restrictions as to the maximum height of the stadium?

Are there any restriction as to how deep into the ground I can dig for the stadium?

Is there a requirement for a designated away sector? If so how big should it be? Where should it go?
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