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Old September 11th, 2018, 04:49 PM   #1
tykho
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Was Saturn our primeval Sun?

When Saturn Ruled the World

The Saturn Theory suggests that Saturn may have been our first Sun or was at least associated as a Sun.
http://www.everythingselectric.com/saturn-sun/










Some of the representations throughout the ancient world.















The ancients seem to suggest that it was. But,
  • How credible is this theory?
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Old September 11th, 2018, 04:54 PM   #2
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Erm, no.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 04:56 PM   #3
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What I regret is that Saturn is no closer to Earth to be better admired by the naked eye.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 05:37 PM   #4
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It is very funny that this thread has been removed to the science section when in fact this theory is based on mythology.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 07:04 PM   #5
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Curiously, many of the rock art figures seem to match the plasma discharge simulated in laboratory.

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Old September 11th, 2018, 09:07 PM   #6
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absolutely, saturn is glorious
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Old September 12th, 2018, 12:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tykho View Post
The ancients seem to suggest that it was. But,
  • How credible is this theory?

Completely off-the-rails loony, no basis in anything resembling science, even with the cherry-picked examples you have to have a severe case of pareidolia to see a pattern, too alternative for this section altogether. I'd rank it above the hollow Earth "theory", but below most alien sightings on the "how reasonable can you be and still fall for this" scale.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 01:19 AM   #8
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Well, Galileo was also once considered a loony.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:17 AM   #9
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What a load of BS!
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Old September 12th, 2018, 09:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Well, Galileo was also once considered a loony.
That does not mean every loony is a Galileo. Besides, Galileo actually had sound scientific evidence. This is just hogswallop.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 03:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabricio JF View Post
What I regret is that Saturn is no closer to Earth to be better admired by the naked eye.
There's a good video on what If the Moon were replaced with some of our solar system planets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usYC_Z36rHw I got chills when Saturn popped up, we would also see its moons just imagine the view .
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
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That does not mean every loony is a Galileo. Besides, Galileo actually had sound scientific evidence. This is just hogswallop.
Yes, he had and nonetheless it did not prevent him from being silenced by his opponents - including part of the "scientific community" of the time.

There have always been and always will be theories considered completely ludicrous at a given moment and then later proved to be true.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 09:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Well, Galileo was also once considered a loony.
By the pseudo-scientists of that time! In fact real science since Greek already suggested the sun was the center of the universe. The church, flat earth and all other religion fairy tale crap was the youtube desinformation of those times.

I hate those pseudo-scientist always thinking they think out the box, etc,... While they are believing most ridiculous unfunded crap.

First of all, if Saturn once was our main star ancient people would not know about it. For life on earth a stable solar system is needed and those are basic physics.

But who am I to know this? Believing our 'mainstream science' instrument of the ruling elite. I inhalated to much chemtrails anyways. Maybe I should watch more youtube and join the 'open minded'.

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Old September 12th, 2018, 09:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tykho View Post
There have always been and always will be theories considered completely ludicrous at a given moment and then later proved to be true.

And for every one of those theories, there will be several orders of magnitude more theories considered completely ludicrous at a given moment and then later proven to be completely ludicrous, to the surprise of absolutely nobody. Just because some guy thought to be wrong once turned out to be right, does not mean everything ever thought to be wrong will one day be proven right.

The stuff you suggest based on the similarity of stick figures would require such a huge and fundamental part of our understanding of physics and history to be wrong, that it alone suggests it's way too far into la-la-land to be taken seriously by anyone.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 01:16 AM   #15
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I stopped reading when I saw the reports from ancients cultures. Why are people so stupid and even waste their time with such nonsense?

The only time when Saturn and Jupiter could have had a more prominent role was during the the formation of the early solar system. But this must have been in a time of chaos well before life of Earth. So certainly billions of years before insignificant humans appeared.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 10:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
And for every one of those theories, there will be several orders of magnitude more theories considered completely ludicrous at a given moment and then later proven to be completely ludicrous, to the surprise of absolutely nobody. Just because some guy thought to be wrong once turned out to be right, does not mean everything ever thought to be wrong will one day be proven right.

The stuff you suggest based on the similarity of stick figures would require such a huge and fundamental part of our understanding of physics and history to be wrong, that it alone suggests it's way too far into la-la-land to be taken seriously by anyone.
A few years ago the idea that civilization could be older than previously thought was complete lubricous also, only suggested by nutters, anything older than 5000 years it belonged in the realm of pure fantasy.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 10:59 AM   #17
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A few years ago the idea that civilization could be older than previously thought was complete lubricous also, only suggested by nutters, anything older than 5000 years it belonged in the realm of pure fantasy.
Not really, it seems like the only thing that held back acceptance of older civilizations was a lack of data. As always, the views of scientists have been "come with the data, and we'll have a look". Besides, it's unclear with what you mean with "a few years ago". The first serious archaeological excavations of ancient cultures were in the late 1700s, and radiometric dating has been around since 1949. So we've had knowledge of civilizations older than 5000 years for several decades if not centuries now.

Besides, you're not getting my point: For every single stupid idea out there that turned out to be right, there are tens of thousands of stupid ideas that turned out to be wrong. The fact that an ultra-tiny minority of them turned out to be right does not remove the fact that most of them weren't, and it doesn't mean that any new far-fetched conjecture could plausibly be real. Just because your idea is called stupid does not make you equivalent to Galileo, it makes you equivalent to most other people who proposed stupid ideas. The similarity of stick figures across several civilizations does not suggest in any way that a planet in the outer solar system was once close enough to the Earth to be revered as a sun. That's just phony hodgepodge.
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Last edited by Kyll.Ing.; September 13th, 2018 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Misread the original statement. Two secs, fixing the post.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 11:28 AM   #18
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Even if civilization was a million years old, there was not major differences to our current solar system. So no matter how old civilization are, none of them observed Saturn or Jupiter as a Sun. The thread opener should really check his brain.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 10:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
Not really, it seems like the only thing that held back acceptance of older civilizations was a lack of data. As always, the views of scientists have been "come with the data, and we'll have a look". Besides, it's unclear with what you mean with "a few years ago". The first serious archaeological excavations of ancient cultures were in the late 1700s, and radiometric dating has been around since 1949. So we've had knowledge of civilizations older than 5000 years for several decades if not centuries now.
When you open the majority of the online encyclopedias the main line of thought is "Civilization began around 5000 years ago", this is what is still being taught.
It was only with the discovery of Gobekli Tepe that things finally begun to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
Besides, you're not getting my point: For every single stupid idea out there that turned out to be right, there are tens of thousands of stupid ideas that turned out to be wrong. The fact that an ultra-tiny minority of them turned out to be right does not remove the fact that most of them weren't, and it doesn't mean that any new far-fetched conjecture could plausibly be real. Just because your idea is called stupid does not make you equivalent to Galileo, it makes you equivalent to most other people who proposed stupid ideas. The similarity of stick figures across several civilizations does not suggest in any way that a planet in the outer solar system was once close enough to the Earth to be revered as a sun. That's just phony hodgepodge.
Of course not. My point is that, sometimes science/academia is very quick to dismiss something but they might be wrong. When the asteroid hypothesis for the extinction of the dinosaurs was first proposed, it was said to be completely absurd, ridiculous, nothing like that could have happened, little comets and asteroids might have hit the earth but nothing like a giant asteroid that could be so devastating. Well, decades later there's evidence to demonstrate that it's the case and it has now become the mainstream thought.
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Last edited by tykho; September 13th, 2018 at 10:32 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 12:38 AM   #20
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Of course not. My point is that, sometimes science/academia is very quick to dismiss something but they might be wrong.

Never mind the civilization debate, then. My point was that when science/academia is very quick to dismiss something, it's usually for very good reasons. So much bullshit is being peddled these days, usually based on conjectures disproven a thousand times already, that most of them can be summarily dismissed unless they bring extraordinary evidence to the debate.



Saturn being like a sun in historic times is one of those obviously bullshit conjectures. How do you move a planet of almost 100 Earth masses from near Earth's solar orbit (~1 AU) to an orbit 10 AU away from the sun within a few thousand years, without disrupting the balance of the solar system to a degree we'd still be seeing traces of today, without destroying the planet in question or everything around it, and without this transition period ever being mentioned in the historical record? For a start, you'd have to set everything we know about physics aside, and that bodes badly for the credibility of your conjecture. What's more likely, that all we know about physics is wrong, or that a few people interpreted stick figure drawings incorrectly and let their imagination fill in the blanks? Hopefully, you can see why you draw so much ridicule here.
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