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Old May 31st, 2005, 09:28 AM   #161
hornetfig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Principes
Is this the project said to be completed by April next year?
segmented viaduct construction. You can plop in a 20m span in on day...
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Old May 31st, 2005, 09:51 AM   #162
GMAC
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Can anyone tell me if there are any plans to put a tunnel or better link of some sought between the Gore Hill Fwy and the Sydney-Newcastle Freeway? The Pacific Hwy in this strectch is a shocker, as you all probably know, surely this sought of connectivity is planned at some stage.

And I hope for Sutherland Shire's sake that the F6 goes ahead!!
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Old May 31st, 2005, 09:56 AM   #163
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No. There are plans to put a tunnel under Pennant Hills Road which would connect the F3 (Syd-New) to the M2 at PH Road. The new national highway route would then take this tunnel and the M7 to get around Sydney rather than going through the city.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 11:45 AM   #164
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A question fellas, that I can't find an answer to. Why does the NSW insist on 'motorways', whilst everywhere else in Australia (as well as most Sydneysiders) called them freeways?
Is it because that many of them are tollways, and the Govt does not want to draw attention to this...seems a shame to destroy a part of out national language for this

thanks
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Old May 31st, 2005, 01:39 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAC
Can anyone tell me if there are any plans to put a tunnel or better link of some sought between the Gore Hill Fwy and the Sydney-Newcastle Freeway? The Pacific Hwy in this strectch is a shocker, as you all probably know, surely this sought of connectivity is planned at some stage.

And I hope for Sutherland Shire's sake that the F6 goes ahead!!
I live in the shire. Right near the highway, and there are plenty of worse spots in Sydney for traffic, ie the carpark that is the M2. Sutherland itself though is a shocker. But that has more to do with the fact that all the roads in the suburb are one lane each way, but that has more to do with the narrow roads through the suburb.

More urgently needed is the improvement of rail infrastructure - the trains get packed well before Sutherland on the Cronulla branch. Fortunately the Cronulla duplification is included in the Clearways scheme.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 02:41 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickid
A question fellas, that I can't find an answer to. Why does the NSW insist on 'motorways', whilst everywhere else in Australia (as well as most Sydneysiders) called them freeways?
Is it because that many of them are tollways, and the Govt does not want to draw attention to this...seems a shame to destroy a part of out national language for this

thanks
Perhaps, they switched to 'motorways' to give the impression they are tolled and not 'free'. Although this goes against the true meaning of the word freeway, which in layman's terms means a freeway free from conflicting traffic flows causing you to stop or slow down.
Note that in Britain, all freeways are known as motorways. And in Brisbane, motorways are also in the majority, and only 2 out of 4 are tolled.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 03:35 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeghead
Perhaps, they switched to 'motorways' to give the impression they are tolled and not 'free'. Although this goes against the true meaning of the word freeway, which in layman's terms means a freeway free from conflicting traffic flows causing you to stop or slow down.
Note that in Britain, all freeways are known as motorways. And in Brisbane, motorways are also in the majority, and only 2 out of 4 are tolled.
interesting though that the M4 and M5 were both open by 1993 and their entire routes went from F4 (Freeway 4) and F5 (Freeway 5) to Motorways, but the F6 between Waterfall and Bulli which had had a toll since 1974 when it was opened retained its name F6. The toll on the F6 was removed in 1995.

So, to summarise
M2 - Motorway
M4 - Motorway
M5 - Motorway
F3 - Freeway
F6 - Freeway
Warringah Expressway became Warringah Freeway
Gore Hill Freeway still Gore Hill Freeway
Cahill Expressway still Cahill Expressway
Western and Eastern Distributors one is tolled, one is not, neither are really distributors but a part of the radial freeway network
Southern Cross Drive that's a freeway too...

Confused yet? Well it'll only get worse with alphanumeric signage comes in:+

M2 - M2
M4 - M4
M5 - M5

good so far

F6 - M1
Southern Cross Dr, Eastern Distributor, Warringah Freeway, Gore Hill Freeway - M1
F3 - M1

there's two gap between these M1s that will be filled with A1

Western Distributor - A4

even though it's a motorway, signage in the CCT has indicated that this road will be signed as A4 rather than have it change M4-A4-M4

wierd? very
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:26 AM   #168
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^They're doing the same thing in Brisbane.
We have Arterial Roads, Highways, Freeways, Motorways, Expressways, By-pass and even Street!

Pacific Motorway--M1(Free)
Riverside Expressway now Pacific Motorway--MR3(Free)
South-East Freeway now Pacific Motorway--MR3(Free)
Gateway Arterial Road now Gateway Motorway--M1(Toll Bridge/Gateway Extenstion--MR4--Tolled)
Gympie Arterial Road--MR3--To become A3--motorway grade(Free)
Western Freeway--MR5--the only freeway left, although I read somewhere they're renaming it the Centenary Highway to fit in with the rest of the parking lot it is.(Free)
Ipswich Motorway--M2(free)
Logan Motorway--MR 4 & 6(Tolled) I think this was originally called the Logan Arterial Road--Not sure.
Inner-City By-pass--MR3(Free)
Hale Street--MR3--Motorway grade road(Free)
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:33 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-TIP
^ That is only if Sydney's west does not receive a wet winter and spring...

Unfortunately, That isn't going to happen, I think we're about to have a very dry winter.
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 08:05 AM   #170
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i think it would be much better if they just overpass some intersections along princes highway like, port hacking road, king george's road, rock point road etc... and make the f6 corrdior into a railway line? overpassing is a cheaper alternative but it won't be able to cope as much traffic as if the f6 was built. i'll prefer going for the overpass. like the double decking of habour bridge, it will benefit both cars and public transport.
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 05:37 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetfig
interesting though that the M4 and M5 were both open by 1993 and their entire routes went from F4 (Freeway 4) and F5 (Freeway 5) to Motorways, but the F6 between Waterfall and Bulli which had had a toll since 1974 when it was opened retained its name F6. The toll on the F6 was removed in 1995.

So, to summarise
M2 - Motorway
M4 - Motorway
M5 - Motorway
F3 - Freeway
F6 - Freeway
Warringah Expressway became Warringah Freeway
Gore Hill Freeway still Gore Hill Freeway
Cahill Expressway still Cahill Expressway
Western and Eastern Distributors one is tolled, one is not, neither are really distributors but a part of the radial freeway network
Southern Cross Drive that's a freeway too...

Confused yet? Well it'll only get worse with alphanumeric signage comes in:+

M2 - M2
M4 - M4
M5 - M5

good so far

F6 - M1
Southern Cross Dr, Eastern Distributor, Warringah Freeway, Gore Hill Freeway - M1
F3 - M1

there's two gap between these M1s that will be filled with A1

Western Distributor - A4

even though it's a motorway, signage in the CCT has indicated that this road will be signed as A4 rather than have it change M4-A4-M4

wierd? very
Well, first of all, I suspect that it'll be A4-A4-M4 for what's currently Metroad 4. The A4 signage would likely only remain until the M4 East is built - it has only been temporarily set aside for a "better" plan (which will probably involve a connection to the proposed Port Botany Motorway, which will probably also link in to the Southern Motorway if it's built (which is what the new section of the "F6" would likely be called). It'll be a right royal mess near the airport...

The interesting thing will be on the changeover where exactly the M5 will become A31. Personally I'd switch over at the M7 interchange. I get the feeling they'll just go with the new signage on the M7 as the road is seperate enough. There'll be a small A7 section, too.
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 01:46 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cammo2004
Well, first of all, I suspect that it'll be A4-A4-M4 for what's currently Metroad 4.
That's what I said? Well actually I said that it would not be signed M4-A4-M4

Quote:
The A4 signage would likely only remain until the M4 East is built - it has only been temporarily set aside for a "better" plan
while the M4 East is planned, suggesting that A4 signage is temporary is like saying thart SR76 signage was temporary pending the construction of the Eastern Suburbs Freeway (F7). Signage on the CCT and Western Distributor will be A4 with MR4 coverplates not M4 with MR4 coverplates to be changed to A4 coverplates when the route is initially converted.

Quote:
(which will probably involve a connection to the proposed Port Botany Motorway, which will probably also link in to the Southern Motorway if it's built (which is what the new section of the "F6" would likely be called). It'll be a right royal mess near the airport...
I did these maps a couple of months back:




Quote:
The interesting thing will be on the changeover where exactly the M5 will become A31. Personally I'd switch over at the M7 interchange. I get the feeling they'll just go with the new signage on the M7 as the road is seperate enough. There'll be a small A7 section, too.
Yeah M5-M7-M31 will be a junction.
As for your "small" A7 section, I'm not sure if I'd call the stretch of Pennant Hills Road from the M2 to F3 as "small"...
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 01:55 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd-Hk
i think it would be much better if they just overpass some intersections along princes highway like, port hacking road, king george's road, rock point road etc... and make the f6 corrdior into a railway line? overpassing is a cheaper alternative but it won't be able to cope as much traffic as if the f6 was built. i'll prefer going for the overpass. like the double decking of habour bridge, it will benefit both cars and public transport.
grade separation? I think that'd be more destructive than, well, anything. Penant Hills Road between the M2 and F3 was considered in the M2-F3 options study for grade separation and it was resoundingly rejected.

Even "Metroad-isation" like happened to in parts on the ring Metroads (3, 6, 7) was mostly taken out in industrial areas. The Princes Highway strikes me as one of the worst candidates for any improvement (certainly worse than even the Pacific Highway between Artarmon and Wahroonga). As a part of such an upgrade something would need to be done with Tom Ugly's Bridge. I'm not sure you can do anything with those approaches.

Frankly there's very few roads in Sydney suitable for grade separation. Old Windsor Road and Windsor Road, most of the Wakehurst Parkway, the semi-expressway Princes Highway south of Sutherland and the semi-rural roads are. But that's not many
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 06:06 PM   #174
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I'd agree with both ideas- Syd-HK's idea of grade-separating major intersections on major existing roads sounds great on paper due to the factor of financial cost and leaving existing corridors for pt development. However from an urban planning perspective it is indeed the worst alternative when considering major roads in residential areas. Where major interstections are grade separated, they become a far greater impediment to pedestrian and cycle movement than leaving the road as it is. Developing a freeway corridor is in most cases, simply putting cars and traffic into a place that generally already is an impediment to pedestrian movement, or a place where there is no pedestrian movement.

Hope that all makes sense. I would not have as many reservations if grade-separation was included in new road upgrades in developing areas if alternative pedestrian routes are provided, and shops and community facilities are located away from those major arterials. Eg- Windsor/Old Windsor Rds, Camden Valley Way, The Northern Rd- when those areas get developed (although hopefully not).

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Old June 4th, 2005, 09:01 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd-Hk
i think it would be much better if they just overpass some intersections along princes highway like, port hacking road, king george's road, rock point road etc... and make the f6 corrdior into a railway line? overpassing is a cheaper alternative but it won't be able to cope as much traffic as if the f6 was built. i'll prefer going for the overpass. like the double decking of habour bridge, it will benefit both cars and public transport.
For what I can tell, there's nowhere near enough space for that anyways.
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Old June 14th, 2005, 02:53 AM   #176
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a mate of mine was out this way on Sat. took this pic of Lighthorse Junction

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