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Old October 21st, 2019, 09:53 AM   #1
Rob73
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Manawatu Gorge Motorway Project

This one's long overdue, however I don't see the point in having 2+2 going up and down, but 1+1 across the top????

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116...ement-motorway
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 12:06 AM   #2
whooodaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
This one's long overdue, however I don't see the point in having 2+2 going up and down, but 1+1 across the top????

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116...ement-motorway
They have changed it to 4 lanes all the way now I believe
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 06:32 AM   #3
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Yip, back to 4 Lanes for the hill section...

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The new Te Ahu a Turanga: Manawatū Tararua Highway will be two lanes each way for the majority of the new road, including the plateau across the Ruahine Ranges.
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/media-relea...et-four-lanes/

I thin they have always had plans for a 2 lane bridge on the western end anyway,
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 08:59 AM   #4
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Putting this into a Norwegian context, instead of going up, over and down, here they would have gone straight through the middle and tunnelled it, with a toll to pay for it. We should do more tunnelling in NZ.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 02:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
Putting this into a Norwegian context, instead of going up, over and down, here they would have gone straight through the middle and tunnelled it, with a toll to pay for it. We should do more tunnelling in NZ.
I've frequently wondered that too... Why is it that in countries like Norway, tunnelling construction is rampant with something like 400+ tunnels on their highway network... with many dozens more planned.

New Zealand has certainly increased the rate of tunnel construction, however, but we pale in comparison to Norway:

New Zealand has built exactly 4 tunnel projects in recent years comprising of 6 tunnels in recent years... All in the last 10 years.
• Arras Tunnel in central Wellington (1x 3 lane tunnel) - Opened 2014
• Johnstone Hill Tunnels north of Orewa (2x 2 lane tunnels) - Opened 2009
• Victoria Park Tunnel in central Auckland (1x 3 lane tunnel) - Opened 2011
• Waterview Tunnels in West Auckland (2x 3 lane tunnels) - Opened 2017

Prior to that the only tunnels built in the previous FIFTY years was:
• Terrace Tunnel (1x 3 lane) in Wellington in 1978
• Lyttelton Tunnel (1x 2 lane) in Christchurch in 1964
(The Homer Tunnel was built in 1954, just over that 50 years prior.)

Even the tiny Faeroe Islands and Iceland have an impressive list of tunnels for their tiny economies.

One of the things I do note in particular is the cost of tunnel building in those scandinavian countries which seems insanely cheap considering those countries have traditionally high labour costs... What is it that makes tunnel building so cheap and effective there, yet outrageously expensive here in NZ?
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Old November 4th, 2019, 09:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by KaneD View Post

One of the things I do note in particular is the cost of tunnel building in those scandinavian countries which seems insanely cheap considering those countries have traditionally high labour costs... What is it that makes tunnel building so cheap and effective there, yet outrageously expensive here in NZ?
That's a question I've wondered for a long time. Maybe it's due to the tunneling method, in Norway it's also mostly drill and blast rather than cut and cover or use TBM's.

As an example the world's longest road tunnel is 24,5 km long and situated between Aurland and Lærdal. The tunnel opened November 2000.

Building period: 1995-2000.
Project costs -2000 value: Nok 1050 million. (approx 200m NZD)
Tunnel cost: Nok 930 million.
Price per metre for finished tunnel: Nok 38 000. (7000 NZD)
Turning points: 15
Breakdown lay-bys: 48
Heaviest traffic in an hour: 400 vehicles
Average daily traffic over a year: 1000 vehicles
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Old November 7th, 2019, 06:22 AM   #7
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It's a combination of reasons at to why it's cheaper over there - mostly the hard rock geology (not the jointed, fractured greywacke that makes up most NZ tunneling environments (excluding AKL)) seismic issues (Norway is a pretty benign environment compared to us), crazy oil money and obviously the economies of scale of building a lot at once.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 09:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DukeofWellington View Post
It's a combination of reasons at to why it's cheaper over there - mostly the hard rock geology (not the jointed, fractured greywacke that makes up most NZ tunneling environments (excluding AKL)) seismic issues (Norway is a pretty benign environment compared to us), crazy oil money and obviously the economies of scale of building a lot at once.
We also have a tendency of going for the cheapest approach rather than future proofing what we build today to make sure it will still be good tomorrow.
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Old November 9th, 2019, 06:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
That's a question I've wondered for a long time. Maybe it's due to the tunneling method, in Norway it's also mostly drill and blast rather than cut and cover or use TBM's.

As an example the world's longest road tunnel is 24,5 km long and situated between Aurland and Lærdal. The tunnel opened November 2000.

Building period: 1995-2000.
Project costs -2000 value: Nok 1050 million. (approx 200m NZD)
Tunnel cost: Nok 930 million.
Price per metre for finished tunnel: Nok 38 000. (7000 NZD)
Turning points: 15
Breakdown lay-bys: 48
Heaviest traffic in an hour: 400 vehicles
Average daily traffic over a year: 1000 vehicles
And that possibly raises a good point...

Tunnels come in all sorts of styles, from very basic unlined rock 2 lane tunnels with few safety features... an example in NZ might be the Homer Tunnel for example....

At the other extreme is the Waterview Tunnel which has all sorts of fancy ventilation, drainage, fire suppression and evacuation systems...

The stark difference here is that clearly, the Laerdal Tunnel is probably constructed with minimal safety features which reflects the very low traffic volumes expected in the tunnel... At worst, there are probably no more than say 5 vehicles in the tunnel at any time, and at worst, if a fire occurred in it, it likely casualties would be very minimal... the worst that could happen perhaps is a bus smacking into the rock wall and bursting into flames killing everyone... well, yes, that would be extreme....

But not as extreme as say something like that happening in the waterview tunnel if it had the same level of safety features as Laerdal Tunnel... Yep... I think it would be fair to say that would be awfully messy.

So indeed, combination of economies of scale, lots of oil money, local geology, and required safety design standards etc will all culminate into making tunnelling in NZ pretty expensive...

Still, I can't help wonder why our transport agency doesn't at least investigate it more often...
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 AM   #10
Rob73
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Kane the Lærdal Tunnel is on an E route, that means it has to comply to EU standards, it's a very safe tunnel built to a high standard, it's not lined because it doesn't need to be lined due to the type of rock it was blasted through.
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