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Old August 27th, 2015, 06:54 PM   #121
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Today they announced the Allied Carpets building will be developed for student accommodation.
This, along with the Royal Mail building heading for the same fate, pretty much means our hopes of a city centre revamp are dashed.
Bishopgate was sucked up by Friargate. The central axis changed to Warwick row, thus rendering one end of the town redundant for investment other than student digs.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:34 AM   #122
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Interesting agenda for next cabinet meeting. Talks about public realm but also CCS see link

http://democraticservices.coventry.g...-%20Update.pdf

Main point is the tender they talked about recently will start in September but last a year. So the whole plan is light years away. If it ever gets off the ground at all.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 02:14 PM   #123
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Today they announced the Allied Carpets building will be developed for student accommodation.
This, along with the Royal Mail building heading for the same fate, pretty much means our hopes of a city centre revamp are dashed.
Bishopgate was sucked up by Friargate. The central axis changed to Warwick row, thus rendering one end of the town redundant for investment other than student digs.
Simply not true. Friargate and Bishopgate are far removed from each other, both is distance terms and also in what they aim to deliver.

CCS is what it says it is, the development of the south of the city centre - and frustrating though the delays are, Friargate makes that development much more viable in the long term.

The current trend for student accommodation will end once supply meets demand - we're not far from that point once these developments come on line, and the city centre will be better off for it in many respects. Bringing derelict and vacant land into use (land that has been unused for years) will have a positive effect.

Other things are happening in that part of town. Small things - such as the old grammar school renovation and the plans for Millenium View (which are about to be revealed soon I understand). Plus this supposed 'place changing' development where the CO-OP building currently is.

Coventry lacks two key things in my opinion - a city centre arts/music venue and a decent retail offering. Having a large business district a one end of town, and new residential developments at the other (which may well be for students, but many of them are from overseas, have a lot of disposable income and stay out of term time) can only make those things MORE likely.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 07:37 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Masonry Mate View Post
Today they announced the Allied Carpets building will be developed for student accommodation.
This, along with the Royal Mail building heading for the same fate, pretty much means our hopes of a city centre revamp are dashed.
Bishopgate was sucked up by Friargate. The central axis changed to Warwick row, thus rendering one end of the town redundant for investment other than student digs.

How was bishop gate sucked up by friargate? Bishops gate was originally a large supermarket. And you will see most large new supermarket developments have been shelved. Actually some that have been built have been abandoned and lie as great white elephants. The next plan was three units in a basically unchanged building. Then next was flats. Not sure how friargate can be blamed for this?

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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #125
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Other things are happening in that part of town. Small things - such as the old grammar school renovation and the plans for Millenium View (which are about to be revealed soon I understand). Plus this supposed 'place changing' development where the CO-OP building currently is.
income and stay out of term time) can only make those things MORE likely.
The last plan I saw for Millennium View was for student flats.

Personally, I think they should git rid of those ghastly arches, and build something on the square - perhaps your music venue/conference centre linked to the museum. It would provide the much needed boost 'Priory Place' needs (Currently totally dead!) The city centre has so many poorly planned 'squares' that no one ever uses!
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #126
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Interesting agenda for next cabinet meeting. Talks about public realm but also CCS see link

http://democraticservices.coventry.g...-%20Update.pdf

Main point is the tender they talked about recently will start in September but last a year. So the whole plan is light years away. If it ever gets off the ground at all.
So the outcome of the feasibility study was that it wasn't feasible.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #127
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So the outcome of the feasibility study was that it wasn't feasible.
What gets me is when reported few weeks ago they never said it would take minimum of a year. Council not telling whole story and lap dogs at telegraph reporting exactly what told to. Either that or to lazy / incompetent to find out whole story.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 09:37 PM   #128
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What gets me is when reported few weeks ago they never said it would take minimum of a year. Council not telling whole story and lap dogs at telegraph reporting exactly what told to. Either that or to lazy / incompetent to find out whole story.
Most of their articles are behind what we post here through just googling and keeping an eye on the planning portal. Won't be long before Coventry is getting the Birmingham edition full of adverts and a few pages of local news, if they can be bothered.

I don't even think this development will happen, and I suspect the residents of the city are tired of the endless promises, endless pointless roadworks creating pointless squares and paving and the general lies they have been fed. I'm sure they will all still vote Labour at the next election. The council are seriously living in cloud cuckoo land.

I read an article recently that had quote from the 1960s when Coventry council were showing delegates from another towns around the 'new' city centre. It was apparently dead, and at the time some retailers were moving out due to the lack of trade... The council apparently just shrugged it off. I suspect the delegation went back and promptly cancelled plans for a similar development. The 'myth' needs to be broken.

What's really quite tragic is that an award winning development like the 'phoenix' is languishing as a decaying square already, while Cathedral Lanes has managed to attract the type of restaurants that Priory Place was *designed* to attract but couldn't. This is how useless they are!

I kind of hope it doesn't happen, as it's such a poor development that just doesn't attempt to fix the 'back to front' nature of the precinct, and just reconfigures it.

I think I'd rather the folks behind Fargo have a crack at doing something. They seem to understand some of the mistakes, and have a clue how to use the city's history on new buildings and also fill in gaps and generally bring back a city feel.

The council seem to be desperate to hang onto the 'precinct' for some reason, and I don't know why. It's rubbish. They should Bristol to see what can be done in 10 years. I was gobsmacked at how different it was on my second visit there. The first time it was a bit like Coventry, the second time it was virtually unrecognisable.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 09:43 PM   #129
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The last plan I saw for Millennium View was for student flats.

Personally, I think they should git rid of those ghastly arches, and build something on the square - perhaps your music venue/conference centre linked to the museum. It would provide the much needed boost 'Priory Place' needs (Currently totally dead!) The city centre has so many poorly planned 'squares' that no one ever uses!
A mixed-use scheme apparently, all tied in with the opening up of the river. Not seen anything, but told something is being worked on by CDP and an announcement fairly soon.

Have to admit, I don't mind the arches - in fact I quite like them. The problem around there is not the arches - it is that godawful Sainsburys, the shit entrance to Pool Meadow, the empty land at Millennium View and the completely botched Priory Place. Framed by some decent buildings I think the arches would be a nice feature.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 09:47 PM   #130
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I prefer the arches to that awful and corny statue of Frank Whittle. Were people too stupid to realise that the 'Whittle Arches' designed to look like wings were a tribute to Whittle?

The whole area is a total cluster-****. A bunch of crappy disjointed buildings on a street that should be a busy link to the inner city area of Hillfields.

Oh, it was, before they demolished it all and built the ring road.

If CDP are involved it stands a chance of behind half decent. I agree, the arches may look better if the area was generally better, but at the moment it's just a ghastly mess and the square seems just like another pointless empty space.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 09:53 PM   #131
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A mixed-use scheme apparently, all tied in with the opening up of the river. Not seen anything, but told something is being worked on by CDP and an announcement fairly soon.

Have to admit, I don't mind the arches - in fact I quite like them. The problem around there is not the arches - it is that godawful Sainsburys, the shit entrance to Pool Meadow, the empty land at Millennium View and the completely botched Priory Place. Framed by some decent buildings I think the arches would be a nice feature.

If you look at the latest cabinet agenda they say opening up of the river at Palmer Lane has been postponed. Council did not get enough European funding so dropped this scheme.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 09:59 PM   #132
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If you look at the latest cabinet agenda they say opening up of the river at Palmer Lane has been postponed. Council did not get enough European funding so dropped this scheme.
Have you got a link to it? The council's website seems virtually impossible to navigate!
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Old August 30th, 2015, 10:07 PM   #133
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Most of their articles are behind what we post here through just googling and keeping an eye on the planning portal. Won't be long before Coventry is getting the Birmingham edition full of adverts and a few pages of local news, if they can be bothered.

I don't even think this development will happen, and I suspect the residents of the city are tired of the endless promises, endless pointless roadworks creating pointless squares and paving and the general lies they have been fed. I'm sure they will all still vote Labour at the next election. The council are seriously living in cloud cuckoo land.

I read an article recently that had quote from the 1960s when Coventry council were showing delegates from another towns around the 'new' city centre. It was apparently dead, and at the time some retailers were moving out due to the lack of trade... The council apparently just shrugged it off. I suspect the delegation went back and promptly cancelled plans for a similar development. The 'myth' needs to be broken.

What's really quite tragic is that an award winning development like the 'phoenix' is languishing as a decaying square already, while Cathedral Lanes has managed to attract the type of restaurants that Priory Place was *designed* to attract but couldn't. This is how useless they are!

I kind of hope it doesn't happen, as it's such a poor development that just doesn't attempt to fix the 'back to front' nature of the precinct, and just reconfigures it.

I think I'd rather the folks behind Fargo have a crack at doing something. They seem to understand some of the mistakes, and have a clue how to use the city's history on new buildings and also fill in gaps and generally bring back a city feel.

They seem to be desperate to hang onto the 'precinct' for some reason, and I don't know why. It's rubbish.
Totally agree about CCS. I'm fed up of these grand plans that take years in planning and are never fully delivered (if at all).

Instead of large scale 'visions' that require huge amounts of money and all sorts of things to fall into place before they even start, I don't see why they cannot scale back their ambitions and look to redevelop bit by bit.

Hertford Street is a prime example. Get CDP involved, take it back to one level, remove the canopy and open it up into Broadgate by removing the Nationwide infill. Why can that process not start now? Why do we have to wait years for a developer to commit hundreds of millions of investment money for an area that covers almost half of the city's retail core before we do something simple like restore Hertford Street into a proper street?

Likewise Smithford Way. Why can't council build a new, modern library facility (other cities are doing it) elswhere in the city centre (a perfect opportunity to create a new landmark building) and then redevelop Smithford Way all the way down to Corporation Street. Had they looked to do something like this, then we wouldn't be lumbered with the half-arsed redevelopment of Allied Carpets and the area could have been opened up properly. Although it will be an improvement on what is there now, it is still a compromise that adds little. Smacks of desperation.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 10:36 PM   #134
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Have you got a link to it? The council's website seems virtually impossible to navigate!
Here is the link

http://democraticservices.coventry.g...s%20Update.pdf
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:42 AM   #135
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Thanks.

That's interesting. They now want to improve Greyfriars Lane because that'll be a route people going to the new restaurants on Broadgate will use. Another crappy route down service areas and dead places, yet there are two empty squares nearby that could provide ample on street parking for restaurant customers just outside - and they're all empty past 5:30.

Quote:
The public realm schemes in the table above have been selected based on the priority list
approved by Council in the March 3rd report. It will no longer be possible to deliver the
Canal Basin scheme and the River Sherbourne de-culverting in Palmer Lane as part of
this programme.
They think that this stuff improves footfall, and are *still* obsessing about the link between the Cathedral and the Transport museum, including some link between Priory Street and Priory Place, which is about as much use as... a useless thing. (Good for students to get to the dreadful restaurants there!)

Oh dear.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 02:24 AM   #136
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Totally agree about CCS. I'm fed up of these grand plans that take years in planning and are never fully delivered (if at all).

Instead of large scale 'visions' that require huge amounts of money and all sorts of things to fall into place before they even start, I don't see why they cannot scale back their ambitions and look to redevelop bit by bit.

Hertford Street is a prime example. Get CDP involved, take it back to one level, remove the canopy and open it up into Broadgate by removing the Nationwide infill. Why can that process not start now? Why do we have to wait years for a developer to commit hundreds of millions of investment money for an area that covers almost half of the city's retail core before we do something simple like restore Hertford Street into a proper street?

Likewise Smithford Way. Why can't council build a new, modern library facility (other cities are doing it) elswhere in the city centre (a perfect opportunity to create a new landmark building) and then redevelop Smithford Way all the way down to Corporation Street. Had they looked to do something like this, then we wouldn't be lumbered with the half-arsed redevelopment of Allied Carpets and the area could have been opened up properly. Although it will be an improvement on what is there now, it is still a compromise that adds little. Smacks of desperation.
But isn't that mainly what they've done over the years after the post-war masterplan failed - develop bit-by-bit to try and get some momentum - and why they started doing these grand masterplans again? Trouble is none of it fits together and doesn't work either.

The Millennium Project was one. Belgrade Plaza another. IKEA, Skydome, even Cathedral Lanes etc. You could get smaller and include stuff like the precinct ramp and escalator if you like.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 02:36 AM   #137
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I think they abandoned the post-war plans for Coventry in the 1960s. It was failing by then! The recession soon kicked in and the ring road was completed and the city centre was pretty much dead. A lot of the post-war stuff was piecemeal as well. No real plan or attempt to build an urban grid.

I think SBC is talking about not doing masterplans, but trying to repair some of the damage in small areas to make incremental improvements. More like Far Gosford Street.

The stuff they've been doing since the 1980s has been pretty poor, just adding bits of metal to try to make that grim precinct look better - and now they're taking it away because it was 'clutter'! (They're talking about removing clutter from elsewhere, stuff they put in ten years ago!)

Hertford Street I'd reconstruct as it was. There are photos. It was a fine street of Edwardian and Victorian buildings. A lot of it actually survived, but was demolished.

And replaced with... total shit!

First thing: Labour need to be run out of this city.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 11:02 AM   #138
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But isn't that mainly what they've done over the years after the post-war masterplan failed - develop bit-by-bit to try and get some momentum - and why they started doing these grand masterplans again? Trouble is none of it fits together and doesn't work either.

The Millennium Project was one. Belgrade Plaza another. IKEA, Skydome, even Cathedral Lanes etc. You could get smaller and include stuff like the precinct ramp and escalator if you like.
That isn't what I'm suggesting at all. I'm not calling for a continuation of the planning policy of the past 30-40 years.

Of course there should be a coherent long-term plan, however CCS in its current form is underliverable in my opinion.

The problem with CCS is that they are looking for a single developer to work with land-owners and to sign up, in full, to the entire project from the very outset. I'm not aware of any other UK city that has adopted such a policy.

CCS, is its entirety, is a huge project that requires massive investment and risk. As a result, years after it was first conceived, we are no further forward and the city centre retail core continues to decay.

A plan is fine, but it needs to be broken down into deliverable stages if we are to get anywhere.

When the FGS project was first discussed 10 years ago, the plan was never to deliver the whole scheme in one go. There was a long term strategy, but it has been done incrementally and has been delivered. That wasn't a single outline planning application - they came seperately over a number of years but all fell within the framework set out at the beginning. I am sure when (and if) CCS does start, it will be phased anyway, so I don't see why they need a developer to commit to the entire project at the start - it is only serving to delay the scheme and make the whole thing unviable.

As it stands, we are at least 12 months from planning, 2 years from a commencement date, and many more years from completion. I'm not sure Coventry can wait that long.

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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:36 PM   #139
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Always find Coventry an interesting place to wonder round. It's a good day out. What always struck me is the sheer amount of commercial activity that is located on the periphery of the city, including shopping. I wonder if the percentage of business parks and out of town activity is higher percentage wise than other city's.....
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Old August 31st, 2015, 01:22 PM   #140
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Always find Coventry an interesting place to wonder round. It's a good day out. What always struck me is the sheer amount of commercial activity that is located on the periphery of the city, including shopping. I wonder if the percentage of business parks and out of town activity is higher percentage wise than other city's.....
Out of town business parks built in the 1980s/1990s - aimed at commuters from Warwickshire because the city's population had poor skills and traditionally high wage earners, technical experts and management class lived in Warwickshire. (Coventry's housing stock is pretty poor, and it has about 2 desirable areas - both of which are expensive.)

Out of town retail, mainly built on the sites of old factories in areas that offices wouldn't be interested in.

Out of town leisure at places like Warwick Arts Centre/Ricoh Arena [Music gigs] mean the footfall generated by a gig selling 2000 tickets is isolated to a university campus and places like Priory Place on the centre die because no one goes there. And these large purpose built complexes don't offer opportunities to anyone else.

Retail parks like 'Ricoh' compete directly with the city centre and have bigger Nexts, New Looks, M&S in shiny new buildings with coffee shops now. (My wife doesn't bother with the city centre clothes shops, as she says they're rubbish.)

The council pat themselves on the back after every lame project, and then 10 years later they're removing it!
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