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Old August 23rd, 2019, 04:24 AM   #3521
symmetry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJD1984 View Post
Sounds like another Super Casino proposal. I can't see it happening myself. It's like a retail park. Put an arena here with retail, leisure, hotels and it will pull tourism etc from Manchester city centre not encourage it and it certainly isn't stretching the city centre out to Etihad. Thats like saying Manchester Fort is stretching the city's retail offering to Cheetham Hill.
Isn't that like saying we shouldn't develop Salford Quays (or any other part of GM) because "it will pull tourism etc from Manchester City Centre"?
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 08:00 AM   #3522
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Originally Posted by Chorltonred View Post
Sounds like another fair play scam. ĎPaid for by usí?

How much do you think an investment returning £75m pa actually costs? North of £1bn. No way City are paying for that. Or the profits are being artificially inflated.

More smoke and mirrors.
Be easier to lend city an oil well and cut the claptrap out. That element of the proposal is a joke but United could have done an arena anytime over the last 20 years and then this would be dead.

Ignoring the City money fudge, still great news for Manchester plc.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 10:45 AM   #3523
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After years and yeas of promising a leisure facility of national significance they come up with an arena that isn't needed.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 11:55 AM   #3524
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It’s 12 years old this thread.

If it was a collar it would be stiff if a little choking.

I mention years ago that the site was perfect to move the Apollo to here given the tram is nearby. A great place for a hotel. I still feel that to be the case now.

But I am suspicious if not concerned that we are talking about an Arena mark 2.

Let’s get this right. Arena 2 would be a drive in drive out venue if it tops 10000 plus. The trams can’t deal with that movement alone. I doubt the single cheesy chain pub and fast food farterie will offer much footfall outside MCFC and concerts.

Whilst i don’t wish to defend Arena 1, its central location, its easiness of access and its addition onto the footfall of local eateries and pubs can not be ignored.

And if it was a contest then I am pretty sure the limitless pockets of freedom loving men (no women) from the UAE will win out. And Arena 1 will close and the Printworks will carry on a Great Northern warehouse style journey. Echo.

So no for me to another Arena.

Yes to a hotel (shaped like a Malcolm Allison Cuban perhaps?) Yes to a mid sized replication of the Apollo.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 11:55 AM   #3525
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I think it'll be great for the area. People will still stay at the hotels and shop and eat in town.
People going on about transport, well it copes with city games and concerts now so shouldnt be a problem. Its just adding another destination for people to go thats all. Dont forget the city is getting bigger every year.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 12:04 PM   #3526
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Aye, do we know if Arena 1 turns away concert tours? Certainly some indoor sport events would need a larger surface area, assuming Arena 2 will be a beast!
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 12:19 PM   #3527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorltonred View Post
Sounds like another fair play scam. ‘Paid for by us’?

How much do you think an investment returning £75m pa actually costs? North of £1bn. No way City are paying for that. Or the profits are being artificially inflated.

More smoke and mirrors.
FFP doesn’t limit or stop infrastructure investment by the club or the club owner. FFP stops the owner investing in the team directly from their own personal wealth. Sheikh Mansour can spend a £1bill developing the Etihad Campus and the Collar site without City failing FFP. In-fact, he could spend a £1trill and City still wouldn’t fail FFP. That rule is 1 of the few good things about FFP. At least UEFA and the PL don’t want to limit investment in stadiums and infrastructure around stadiums.

Sheikh Mansour spent over £150mill on the CFA. And also paid for the expansion of the South Stand. I can’t remember exactly how much that cost. Think it was £20mill+ The North Stand expansion is still to come. As for the cost of the proposed arena, and who will be funding it, it’s all conjecture at the moment.

Putting football rivalries and FFP to one side. (East) Manchester is lucky that Sheikh Mansour bought City rather than another English PL club, otherwise all the investment that has been ploughed into (East) Manchester by Sheikh Mansour and ADUG would have gone to another city. And don’t forget, the annual rent on the Etihad, £4mill, is paid directly to the city council, and goes to people living in (East) Manchester, regardless of which team they support.

That £75mill pa figure was from Tolmie, a well respected poster on BM, with apparently good contacts at the club. However, I take that £75mill pa figure with a ‘massive’(arf!) pinch of salt, as there is simply nothing to base that £75mill pa figure on. If there are profits, which there will be, nobody will know where they will go, or if they will go directly to City, the City Football Group, or back to Sheikh Mansour. Any profit will just show up as additional income of the balance sheet.

FFP guff aside. At least we now know an arena is proposed for the Etihad Campus. And it’s a serious proposal. And with that arena should come Hotels, Restaurants, Bars, maybe even a Conference centre, etc? So there’s still plenty be excited about, even though development of the Etihad Campus and the Collar site has become a very long and drawn out process.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 12:33 PM   #3528
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I’ve put a feeler out on BM.

I’ve asked anyone living locally to post a picture on BM of any leaflet that might arrive in the coming day’s and week’s about the proposed arena. I’ve had a couple of replies.

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Old August 23rd, 2019, 01:46 PM   #3529
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Probably safe to say talks are well advanced. I'd think we'd see different events on here (more sporting events - NBA, Tennis). I'd also hazard a guess the acoustics will be far superior too the MEN (initially built as multi-purpose). But hey - Birmingham seems to do ok with two arenas?
City will obviously get flak from the usual suspects but the training complex shows they just get on with it. Growing pains for a growing city.

Always planned as a 30 year project all this so 12 years isn't even half way in.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 03:01 PM   #3530
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They should build the venue with not just live music/sport but e-sports in mind - huge opportunity there to bring in more tourism/major events to Manchester and offer something unique to the UK.
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Old August 24th, 2019, 12:22 PM   #3531
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https://youtu.be/03r7pMIWd_g

This is an interesting interview with the ceo of oak view group. Hope the link works
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Old August 24th, 2019, 03:41 PM   #3532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatonparkincake View Post
12 years old this thread.

If it was a collar it would be stiff if a little choking.

I mention years ago that the site was perfect to move the Apollo to here given the tram is nearby. A great place for a hotel. I still feel that to be the case now.

But I am suspicious if not concerned that we are talking about an Arena mark 2.

Let's get this right. Arena 2 would be a drive in drive out venue if it tops 10000 plus. The trams can't deal with that movement alone. I doubt the single cheesy chain pub and fast food farterie will offer much footfall outside MCFC and concerts.

Whilst i don't wish to defend Arena 1, its central location, its easiness of access and its addition onto the footfall of local eateries and pubs can not be ignored.

And if it was a contest then I am pretty sure the limitless pockets of freedom loving men (no women) from the UAE will win out. And Arena 1 will close and the Printworks will carry on a Great Northern warehouse style journey. Echo.

So no for me to another Arena.

Yes to a hotel (shaped like a Malcolm Allison Cuban perhaps?) Yes to a mid sized replication of the Apollo.
Arena 1 is 25 years old, and now needs serious investment if it is going to compete with more recent facilities in Leeds and Liverpool. Access from the station concourse and Metrolink is poor (and now much worse, with the security restrictions in place). Access from the town is exposed to wind and rain, and very unfriendly for wheelchair users.

Within the arena complex itself; concourses are inadequate; and the associated eateries, exhibition spaces, and hospitality lounges are much too small.

Ideally, therefore, Arena 1 is due a major upgrade; downsizing the actual auditorium and increasing the space for concourses, lounges, and hospitality. There is a big market for really large convention and conference auditoriums (bigger than can fit into Central); but Arena 1 cannot meet it, as all the space is given over to the auditorium; and ancillary exhibition, hospitality and marketplace spaces are just not big enough.

Without such investment, it is only a matter of a few years until someone invests in a more modern 20k+ arena (maybe in Salford, Trafford or Stockport); and Arena 1 will be dead anyway.

In which case; I see a big advantage in reproviding Manchester's top arena on the Collar Site; and then the current owners of the city centre arena finding a few hundred million of their own to update their own facility into something more fit for the 2020s.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 11:36 AM   #3533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by symmetry View Post
Isn't that like saying we shouldn't develop Salford Quays (or any other part of GM) because "it will pull tourism etc from Manchester City Centre"?
No because itís not. Plus that is Salford. They can do what they like. They rely on it as their entertainment district. This is Manchester. We should be working on different parts of the city to create different neighbourhoods. St Johnís as the digital tech hub, Northern Quarter as creative district, Etihad and collar site as Sports City. If this new arena is for purely sport, great, but if it pulls from the Manchester arena (comedy events, music etc) then it will pull tourism from the city. Fact.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 02:59 PM   #3534
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I think this is going to happen so the effect on the city centre (which we can only guess) will have to be dealt with then.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 05:12 PM   #3535
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Access from the station concourse and Metrolink is poor..
Itís excellent.

Well, it was in June when I used it.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 05:54 PM   #3536
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Itís excellent.

Well, it was in June when I used it.
- no escalators;
- security at the bottom of the stairs; so prospective spectators have to mill around amidst the rail passengers looking to get through the barriers;
- poor lift access for wheelchairs.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 07:01 PM   #3537
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Itís excellent.

Well, it was in June when I used it.
I wouldn't say it was excellent. It's sufficient however, even for myself those stairs are pretty steep.
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Old August 26th, 2019, 02:26 AM   #3538
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No because itís not. Plus that is Salford. They can do what they like. They rely on it as their entertainment district. This is Manchester. We should be working on different parts of the city to create different neighbourhoods. St Johnís as the digital tech hub, Northern Quarter as creative district, Etihad and collar site as Sports City. If this new arena is for purely sport, great, but if it pulls from the Manchester arena (comedy events, music etc) then it will pull tourism from the city. Fact.
Lol. Business is business. Can't stop progress in one area to accommodate a privately owned business in another.

Can't stop Tesco's opening everywhere just because they take away trade from other business.

Supply and demand, capitalism.

I hope they do build a new architecturally significant and attractive arena. Although the Manchester Arena has served us well it's aesthetically nondescript and, as I keep saying, invisible.

I do think the city can accommodate two arena's and the competition will be good for the city. Sport City needs a large indoor arena and it will continue the regeneration of East Manchester.
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Old August 26th, 2019, 07:55 AM   #3539
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Hereís a list of events that are taking place at the Manchester arena until the end if this year, and into next year. https://www.manchester-arena.com/events/
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Old August 26th, 2019, 12:35 PM   #3540
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Manchester Arena is superbly placed in geographic (local and regionally) and strategic terms and therefore will regardless, of any second arena will have sufficient pull to get acts to perform there. In many ways with the choice of two, it makes it easier for tour operators to book and could well make Manchester more Ďessentialí, for any touring band/show/event. Whatever the perceived flaws, Iíve had some genuinely great experiences there and never really had anything to complain about, but I appreciate thatís one persons opinion. If a second arena forces the current arena to modernise and up its game, then itís another net win. Whole know we could even get a reclad, or more active frontages along the Ďforgottení end, as the old Boddingtonís site starts to be developed sitting between growing Greengate and the Green Quarter. The car surface park opposite has a fairly serious pop-up eatery trailer when events are on, so there seems to be some demand demand for this or a newsagents?

Yesterdayís pride main event celebration showís Mayfield pulling the punters. I have no idea how many people were there, but form the video, you can see itís thousands: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49448391

Also not entirely related, but this article suggests further evidence that live entertainment is on the up, something that has already been argued, in posts previous in favour of a second arenaĒ. Okay, London, Paris, Tokyo, New York are all mega Alpha++ cities that Manchester is not, but these types of cities often point to trends that will trickle down, or can be analysed on a level that can be then scaled accordingly: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49409978

The city is growing, in population terms and in national and international importance and appeal. More and more apartments, office and hotels rooms are being built and the airport continues to grow, even mid-refurb. If you look at this 10/20 years down the line, people might suggest how a second arena could ever have been questioned. Just as the Quays is and will more come to be recognised as part of the broader city centre, I also think the same will happen of this part of East Manchester, all of course with their own characteristics that are part of a larger, more mature and developed Manchester. Time of course will tell, but I personally think that there is demand now and itís only going to grow and there is some serious financial investment pending that would seem to back this up. I think the fact that the MEN (Iím another that will always call it that), has for many years been top, or top three in terms of annual international attendance figures, shows both the city and the arena punching well above their weight and one would hope that there is credence to suggest that the future will be bright for both.
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