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Old April 29th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #1021
Hit_by_the_Neptunes
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Demolition [Gaullachergasse 55]

Demolition: 2016
New residential building: 2018
District: 16th Ottakring

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Old April 29th, 2018, 10:47 AM   #1022
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Demolition [Gumpendorfer Straße 126]

Demolition: 2016
New residential building: 2018
District: 6th Mariahilf

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Old April 29th, 2018, 10:51 AM   #1023
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Completed: Residential Building [Troststraße]

# Use: residential
# District: 10th Favoriten
# Status: completed 2018



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Old April 29th, 2018, 11:29 AM   #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_by_the_Neptunes View Post
Demolition [Gumpendorfer Straße 126]

Demolition: 2016
New residential building: 2018
District: 6th Mariahilf

before


after
This example is fine. I wish all the replacements of the historic buildings could just look like that one. I heard a few people say the buildings are ugly because theyre cheap, well this building is cheap too and looks fine. Theres no reason why some of those designs had to be so ugly, no reason why the windows had to be all different sizes and randomly placed all over the building and couldnt just be symmetrical, or why they had to be painted in some strange garish coloured checkerboard, theres lots of cheap buildings that look okay.

And Gaullachergasse 55 might actually be an improvement on its predecessor
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Old April 29th, 2018, 12:45 PM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_by_the_Neptunes View Post
Demolition [Gaullachergasse 55]

Demolition: 2016
New residential building: 2018
District: 16th Ottakring

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Yuck!
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Old April 29th, 2018, 07:32 PM   #1026
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Is there a way to get engaged and support preservation even if you're not an Austrian citizen?
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Old April 29th, 2018, 08:47 PM   #1027
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So sad thread :'(
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Old April 30th, 2018, 01:22 PM   #1028
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I got a reply from Vienna city council, if anyone is interested to read
Dear ____,



I would like to respond to your last week request as follows. And thank you for your commitment to protect the historical heritage and cityscape of Vienna.



Over the next 15 to 20 years, Vienna’s population will grow from currently approx. 1.7 million to roughly two million inhabitants. This constitutes an enormous challenge for Vienna’s urban planners, as adequate housing, social and technical infrastructure must be created. At the same time, the vast interrelated green spaces of the city will remain off limits for construction activities. For this reason, densification will be a key issue for urban development in the coming years. However, this development does not contradict the World Heritage status of the historic centre of Vienna. In keeping with the Vienna Memorandum, new construction projects in the proximity of the World Heritage site will employ a sustainable scale and respect the historic environment with great sensitivity. The task of the hour lies in striking a balance between “conservation” and “development”.



Ongoing discussions at the international level show that modern urban development and World Heritage status are not mutually exclusive. The Vienna Memorandum, a pioneering UNESCO document of 2005, recognised in fact that lively cities such as the Austrian capital should not become museums, and that urban development certainly has to take account of the requirements of a modern city. In this context, the questions of the scale and dimensions of new structures play an important role that must be considered, as the prime goal is to avoid damage to the authenticity of any World Heritage site. A contemporary architectural vocabulary definitely does not contradict the World Heritage status, since any era demands its own architectural language, as the Vienna Memorandum indicates.



Best regards

_______




City of Vienna - Executive Group for
Construction and Technology
Competence Centre overall urban planning, Smart City Strategy,
participation, gender planning

City Hall
1082 Vienna, Austria



'lively cities such as the Austrian capital should not become museums'
So its better vienna just becomes ugly instead?okay..
I dont get why modern vienna requires ugly buildings to function when many european cities effectively implement facadism, redevelopment of interior while maintaining historic facade

' A contemporary architectural vocabulary definitely does not contradict the World Heritage status'
If only the buildings even looked contemporary and not like post war prefabs

So basically, they dont care about heritage being demolished outside the UNESCO area, and a city planner is justifying these hideous redevelopments and clearly they are not motivated to change the situation . Well at least they bothered to reply.So sad the city happens to be governed by people with this mindset. These buildings would be well protected by most european governments. I dont think anything will change unless people in vienna staged protests, I know it is hard to get the public heart into architecture, but well crazier things have happened.
Even back before modern conservation existed, 20,000 people in dublin in 1978 protested against timber viking houses at wood quay being demolished for new office blocks

They were still demolished. But at least it caused a lot of controversery and the government were heavily criticised for allowing it
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Old April 30th, 2018, 02:37 PM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakka12 View Post
I got a reply from Vienna city council, if anyone is interested to read
Dear ____,



I would like to respond to your last week request as follows. And thank you for your commitment to protect the historical heritage and cityscape of Vienna.



Over the next 15 to 20 years, Vienna’s population will grow from currently approx. 1.7 million to roughly two million inhabitants. This constitutes an enormous challenge for Vienna’s urban planners, as adequate housing, social and technical infrastructure must be created. At the same time, the vast interrelated green spaces of the city will remain off limits for construction activities. For this reason, densification will be a key issue for urban development in the coming years. However, this development does not contradict the World Heritage status of the historic centre of Vienna. In keeping with the Vienna Memorandum, new construction projects in the proximity of the World Heritage site will employ a sustainable scale and respect the historic environment with great sensitivity. The task of the hour lies in striking a balance between “conservation” and “development”.



Ongoing discussions at the international level show that modern urban development and World Heritage status are not mutually exclusive. The Vienna Memorandum, a pioneering UNESCO document of 2005, recognised in fact that lively cities such as the Austrian capital should not become museums, and that urban development certainly has to take account of the requirements of a modern city. In this context, the questions of the scale and dimensions of new structures play an important role that must be considered, as the prime goal is to avoid damage to the authenticity of any World Heritage site. A contemporary architectural vocabulary definitely does not contradict the World Heritage status, since any era demands its own architectural language, as the Vienna Memorandum indicates.



Best regards

_______




City of Vienna - Executive Group for
Construction and Technology
Competence Centre overall urban planning, Smart City Strategy,
participation, gender planning

City Hall
1082 Vienna, Austria



'lively cities such as the Austrian capital should not become museums'
So its better vienna just becomes ugly instead?okay..
I dont get why modern vienna requires ugly buildings to function when many european cities effectively implement facadism, redevelopment of interior while maintaining historic facade

' A contemporary architectural vocabulary definitely does not contradict the World Heritage status'
If only the buildings even looked contemporary and not like post war prefabs

So basically, they dont care about heritage being demolished outside the UNESCO area, and a city planner is justifying these hideous redevelopments and clearly they are not motivated to change the situation . Well at least they bothered to reply.So sad the city happens to be governed by people with this mindset. These buildings would be well protected by most european governments. I dont think anything will change unless people in vienna staged protests, I know it is hard to get the public heart into architecture, but well crazier things have happened.
Even back before modern conservation existed, 20,000 people in dublin in 1978 protested against timber viking houses at wood quay being demolished for new office blocks

They were still demolished. But at least it caused a lot of controversery and the government were heavily criticised for allowing it
This is sick!!
I got the exact same response, this guy is just copy pasting it.

I have written to the UNESCO comitte of Austria, and made a request to the UNESCO world organization.

A lot of cities in the world are well preserving their heritage, I do not see how the austrians are being so mislead.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 02:46 PM   #1030
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The most bizarre thing about that letter is the sentence Over the next 15 to 20 years, Vienna’s population will grow from currently approx. 1.7 million to roughly two million inhabitants. The population stood at exactly 1,840,226 in 2016, so taking in account the annual increase, it stands at 1.9 million today, not 1.7. The letter reads like a blueprint that was written ten years ago and has never been changed since! Austrian bureaucracy - Karl Kraus, Franz Kafka, Jaroslav Hasek and Helmut Qualtinger could have told you a thing or two about it.
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Old May 1st, 2018, 08:15 PM   #1031
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They could rededicate some of the older structures (keep the facade for instance) and make it completely modern on the inside (behind the facade). The city could subsidize this (if they really care about their heritage) so that developers are still interested. I think in general there is nothing wrong with the population density in the city center. New building projects and neighborhoods with a higher density and higher buildings could be planned for the outer districts replacing some of that hideous post-war garbage. It's not like it's not possible, they finished a 230 meter skyscraper (offices) in the business district 5 years ago. Yet there aren't any similar scale residential buildings coming off the ground..
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 12:24 AM   #1032
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I think the main problem about this whole topic is a quite "social" one. Vienna is a place where it's still no problem to have a good job / earn good money while you can easily live in an affordable, but nice place. If you compare for example what kind of living a young office worker in Vienna can afford with what the same would look like in London it's like comparing the living of a princess with a rat (not even mentioning the quality of living!).
This leads to this really bad architecture (but still really nice modern living space from the inside...) for new social housings. Then again there is the problem with the enormous population growth of Vienna. Where is the room for the affordable living of all these people? In the end it's way cheaper (for the costumer as well as for the developer!) or even easier to demolish these wonderful historic buildings on the outer (not touristy) districts for new affordable living spaces. And in the end also the developer is only thinking about profit and doesn't care about historic buildings. That's humanity. Vienna is paying a high price for its well known affordable living at the moment I think...

Just my point of an amateur view though.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 10:32 AM   #1033
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Sometimes, I think that the protection of old buildings can go too far, but looking at some of these examples, what were they thinking??? Just zoomed in on Vienna on google maps on random places, and I can see plenty of 60s and 70s tower blocks that could easily be replaced by nicer but still dense buildings, instead of demolishing older pre-war buildings. Then they could still grow in population, that's such a bad excuse from the city council.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 11:31 AM   #1034
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If one should look for upsides I guess the modernizations include elevators and internet cable access (as someone who has moved to the sixth floor in a building without an elevator can attest). Most of the new buildings seems to me to be "urban" in the sense of shops at the bottom with street level contact. If the property owners wished/were forced to I guess you could regulate some better facades in place. At least the presence of "mute" bottom levels (with only one small entrance door and windows creating the sense of a "wall" to passers-by) is quite small it seems.



The bottom line to why we're here: As Vienna lost out during "the short 20th century" of 1914-1989 (population shrank from 2.2 million to 1.4 million in the late 1980's before the Iron Curtain fell - Some of them moved to the suburban landscape around the city after WW2 as the rest of the world but most were expelled/fled in the period of 1914-1945, some to 1955 when the occupation of Austria ended esp. as the Soviets controlled the area around Vienna) I also guess many of these older buildings have not been properly maintained over the years which is hard to judge from looking on a facade only. Until the 1990's most economic/demographic expansion in Austria took place in the west (Vorarlberg, Tyrol, Salzburg, Linz) and then the catch-up of Vienna started. Without this macro-economic/social background Vienna would never have been here (there would probably have been many more dull 1960's office buildings downtown instead).



My subjective guess on all of this then is that in many of these cases demolitions were probably the only feasible option left, but neverthenless I also support the keeping of the older facades. There have been many projects like that over the years world-wide with a modern building behind an old facade, why shouldn't Vienna strive for the same end? The upside of being "frozen in time" as Vienna has been is that you can exhibit much of was was great in the former expansive period (as it was in 1850-1914) which no other great city of similar size can (Stockholm is almost as big as Vienna but nearly everything in the greater metropolitan area has been constructed post-WW2 and looks thereafter).

If I were to join a Viennese preservation corps in these Bezriken I´d strive for this goal - Keep in line with the urban Gründerzeit tradition but feel free to modernize inside as you please.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:15 PM   #1035
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Hi everyone, I've been lurking on this forum for a few years but this thread made me finally decide to join. I was really surprised at some of the demolitions in Vienna. I decided to follow suit and also sent a complaint to the city council about it. I doubt they will care about what a random foreigner has to say but I tried to address some of their arguments on how a city should not be a museum and the need for housing to sustain their population growth.

I'm trying to take solace in that some of the demolished structures were plain-Jane's (that probably could have been fixed up nice) while others were short one or two story structures (which also could have been sensitively extended upon). However, I have a hard time rationalizing the demolitions of Huttengasse 5, Döblinger Hauptstraße 2, Gudrunstraße 187, the Webergasse, soon Lindauergasse 2-6 and the Karolinenhof (Jedleseer Straße 75), as well as possibly Radetzkystraße 24-26. Some of the replacements are roughly the same height but appear to have more floors. I can only assume the builder lowered the heights of the ceilings to cram in as many units as possible.

And then of course there are the very often hideous roof-top extensions.

It really is a shame. I don't think there exists such a well-preserved city center in neighboring Germany and people are not going to come and visit the city for (as erbse referred to it) these eastern-block aesthetics. I would also favor at least keeping the facades while modernizing the insides. You can preserve a building's as well as a neighborhood's ambiance and charm while granting tenants all the 21st century amenities and luxuries they can ask for.

I don't want to be throwing around any ignorant accusations (and I don't mean to offend) but I wonder if the Viennese are just spoiled and jaded by the ubiquity of historical architecture so much that it matters little to them what becomes of their's. It reminds of some Parisians calling for the complete modernization of Île de la Cité on this forum. For someone like me who lives in such an architecturally-underwhelming place, it bewilders me.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:26 PM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towers_&_Spires View Post
Hi everyone, I've been lurking on this forum for a few years but this thread made me finally decide to join. I was really surprised at some of the demolitions in Vienna. I decided to follow suit and also sent a complaint to the city council about it. I doubt they will care about what a random foreigner has to say but I tried to address some of their arguments on how a city should not be a museum and the need for housing to sustain their population growth.

I'm trying to take solace in that some of the demolished structures were plain-Jane's (that probably could have been fixed up nice) while others were short one or two story structures (which also could have been sensitively extended upon). However, I have a hard time rationalizing the demolitions of Huttengasse 5, Döblinger Hauptstraße 2, Gudrunstraße 187, the Webergasse, soon Lindauergasse 2-6 and the Karolinenhof (Jedleseer Straße 75), as well as possibly Radetzkystraße 24-26. Some of the replacements are roughly the same height but appear to have more floors. I can only assume the builder lowered the heights of the ceilings to cram in as many units as possible.
Funny that you don't mention Donaufelder Straße 241 (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=949). In my opinion, this is the most shocking case of them all. The argument that it was only a two storey structure may be sensible but the aesthetic loss trumps (ahem) everything.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:32 PM   #1037
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Funny that you don't mention Donaufelder Straße 241 (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=949). In my opinion, this is the most shocking case of them all. The argument that it was only a two storey structure may be sensible but the aesthetic loss trumps (ahem) everything.
The thing I find most hard to bare about this one is the ugly one story cottage to the right of it is left standing
I still feel sick when I see these pics since they were first posted in the thread. Why is architecture the only art people are allowed to publicly deface, imagine people went into galleries or museums and scrawled graffiti all over the rare artefacts.I see no difference between them
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:36 PM   #1038
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The thing I find most hard to bare about this one is the ugly one story cottage to the right of it is left standing
Read and weep: https://donaufeld.wordpress.com/2013...vom-hopf-haus/

http://www.marschler.at/wien-1900/22...1-hopfhaus.htm




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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:55 PM   #1039
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Oh and what Vienna does with its heritage is disgraceful and dreadful. On the other side the 'modern' buildings lack creativity and quality, overall zero imagination and innovation in what's supposed to be a quality 21st century architecture. Please hire some of the starchitects, you won't regret it.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:57 PM   #1040
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I'm sorry but this thread is pianfull to watch! what kind of imbecil is running vienna at the moment?? This is beyond any excuses they can make! it looks like they purposely destroying classical German architecture. they could easly safe those facades at least so it looks like slowly but very conseqently destroying Vienna!!!
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