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Old October 9th, 2016, 07:56 AM   #21
Apt.1Q
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Whether this project ever becomes reality or not, I hope that something close to this does happen sooner rather than later at this site, this is still a spectacular vision for a piece of land that everyone would see when coming into Milwaukee. I think over the last five years or so we've (maybe just me) been getting used to seeing projects like this for Milwaukee during this revival that we are currently experiencing. But really this project is amazing, ambitious, and beautiful. It's so cool to see things like this are now the norm for Milwaukee development proposals for the most part. The project reminds me of a development like some dual towers in Century City, Los Angeles. Very sleek towers, it reminds me of something in Southern California.

My favorite part of this whole thing is actually a fairly minor detail but it's the pedestrian bridge over the river connecting it to the H-D Museum. I think it shows that these architects know how important connections to other neighborhoods are for people. Although wouldn't the bridge need to incorporate the fact that tall boats navigate the river below? It's conceptual, I know.

And as far as the renderings not exactly reflecting the real landscape as some people mentioned, I wondered the same thing with the Nexus renderings. The Hilton is missing its rooftop antenna, Wisconsin Tower looks much shorter and fatter with a different spire, and the 633 building looks much sleeker in renderings than in reality and doesn't have the Miller sign on top either. I just wondered why they changed that but I know the appearances of existing buildings in a conceptual rendering are beside the point.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 01:43 AM   #22
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While this proposal is drastically better than what is now there, I still have major reservations about that building being saved. It's a monstrous wall that runs nearly an entire block cutting off downtown from the river and everything to the south. I'd much rather see it demolished to make way for something that opens up and connects neighborhoods and weaves the river into the fabric of those neighborhoods. Even pretty it doesn't really accomplish this.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 03:01 AM   #23
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While this proposal is drastically better than what is now there, I still have major reservations about that building being saved. It's a monstrous wall that runs nearly an entire block cutting off downtown from the river and everything to the south. I'd much rather see it demolished to make way for something that opens up and connects neighborhoods and weaves the river into the fabric of those neighborhoods. Even pretty it doesn't really accomplish this.
I totally agree. The building is just too big. I recognize that taking it down will expose a major railway and that it will inhibit some kinds of development. But cities deal with railways all the time and the trains are very slow going through there. So much can be done with that site that would be very much nicer.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 06:21 AM   #24
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I kind of like the current building. I understand that it is HUGE but I think the proposed plan breaks it up pretty well. The building already includes parking, which is a massive cost savings to developers. The way the developers opened it up to the river was genius, it seems very similar like I said to the Chicago Riverwalk, it's covered, it cuts right down to the water. The new buildings fit nicely into it and the rail line is still able to be functional all the while. While the original structure isn't pretty, it is a part of our history. If we tear it down and build all new, we could be located in "anywhere USA" by converting this old structure, we are able to keep some of what defines our city while showing our innovation and how we are able to grow out of our past.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 06:42 AM   #25
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I don't know that I see the post office as a major part of Milwaukee history that's worth saving. I suppose it is unique, but in terms of what it accomplished or its role in Milwaukee's past...it was built to "save" downtown from its industrial past, but I hardly think it accomplished that.

Do you remember when this article came out after the post office was purchased?

http://shepherdexpress.com/blog-1215...d-express.html

There are some really interesting tidbits.

Quote:
Milwaukee Mayor Henry Maier also favored the downtown site. The plan fit with the mayor’s greater vision for downtown, particularly the areas bordering Milwaukee’s waterways. By the 1960s, the once-bustling commercial traffic of the waterways had slowed considerably, and the murky and odorous waters of the Milwaukee and Menomonee rivers had become a major deterrent to development. The riverfronts were littered with empty lots and abandoned industrial buildings. The large-scale bulldozing of these buildings was seen as the way forward for the area. Modern parking ramps and shopping districts could fill these lots. Freeway ramps and spurs could link downtown to the outlying suburbs. And blocks of unsightly buildings left over from the turn of the century and earlier could be turned into a series of parks and promenades. All of this was aimed at “beautification,” washing away the ugly industrial past and replacing it with modern architecture, acres of parking, and carefully-engineered landscapes.
It's funny how backwards that all seems today, especially as the city embraces its waterways and how much that has opened up development (the lakefront and rivers are at the heart of just about everything that's happening). Then there is this:

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The downtown post office also had an impact on how postal facilities were imagined and built across the nation. Just months after the facility opened, the US Postmaster General called it out as an example of how not to locate and design a major regional distribution center.
So basically it was a failure of a building and a failure of a post office. Maybe that's too strong, but I drive from Walker's Point through the Third Ward up to the East Side just about every day, and when I go via second street I'm always struck at how much of a physical impediment that massive building plays in separating downtown from the Menomonee River and Walker's Point to the south.

By embracing our waterways (i.e., cleaning up the rivers/lakefront and embracing them through riverwalks, public spaces, etc.), we've been able to take advantage of natural forces driving Americans to our urban centers. I truly believe water is where it's at in this new paradigm. And a huge structure sitting on the edge of downtown and keeping Milwaukeeans from the water is a detriment, no matter how much lipstick you put on it.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 06:42 AM   #26
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The current building gives the developers and architects more of an opportunity for interesting design. This could be an iconic development that gets some fanfare from outside architecture and urban planning critics. Tearing it down will likely result in a more normal, less dense, less exciting redevelopment. I just think about how cool this will be having a train running through the building and how they will design the interior around that. I'm envisioning something like a grand old train station.

It's almost kind of like a much smaller version of the Merchandise Mart in Chicago. There is something impressive about the shear size of it all. It would be a damn shame to lose that and replace it with another North End or River House.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 07:33 AM   #27
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The current building gives the developers and architects more of an opportunity for interesting design. This could be an iconic development that gets some fanfare from outside architecture and urban planning critics. Tearing it down will likely result in a more normal, less dense, less exciting redevelopment. I just think about how cool this will be having a train running through the building and how they will design the interior around that. I'm envisioning something like a grand old train station.

It's almost kind of like a much smaller version of the Merchandise Mart in Chicago. There is something impressive about the shear size of it all. It would be a damn shame to lose that and replace it with another North End or River House.
The Merchandise Mart is iconic. I have been all through there. I actually helped install interior signage throughout the building about ten years ago or so. It's classic inside and out.

The MKE PO is not. I kind of see your perspective, though. I just hate this building. It can't be helped.

Nevertheless, I am all right with this concept and if it happens, great. I just think there is so much more that can be done there. However, the North End would be a disappointment, certainly.

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Old October 10th, 2016, 08:15 PM   #28
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I work at the mart and the downtown PO is no where close. I do think there presents a similar opportunity, I just don't like what has been proposed. Doesn't seem to take full advantage of the property or really add to a currently dead block. Then again, we don't have all the details yet.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 10:31 PM   #29
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I think this proposal really needs a third tower along the river between the other two. Currently the building remains long and bland with no real breaks or eye movers. A tower in the middle would break up the building, and really help the look of the area
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Old October 12th, 2016, 06:01 AM   #30
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Well I don't mean architecturally or size that this would become the Merchandise Mart but I think it could become something similar. A massive multi-use building that dominates its section of the river. Square footage-wise, this would be the second largest building in Wisconsin after NML and maybe US Bank, I believe.
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Old October 12th, 2016, 07:16 AM   #31
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I think it would be a great location for an upgraded/expanded Milwaukee public market. Not sure there is a demand for it to expand but I could see it filled with eateries and entertainment. Along with some condo towers I think it would do well.
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Old October 12th, 2016, 07:13 PM   #32
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I think it would be a great location for an upgraded/expanded Milwaukee public market. Not sure there is a demand for it to expand but I could see it filled with eateries and entertainment. Along with some condo towers I think it would do well.
Thats a great idea! Ive always felt condos/apt connected to the public market would be a big hit. Maybe it could replace rather than expand the current market.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 01:40 AM   #33
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Thats a great idea! Ive always felt condos/apt connected to the public market would be a big hit. Maybe it could replace rather than expand the current market.
Why replace? It's like 10 years old, if that, and a good looking building.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 01:45 AM   #34
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Why replace? It's like 10 years old, if that, and a good looking building.
Yeah indeed. If you've ever been to the Seattle Public Market, it started with a single building and then just added on hodge-podge as it grew, well that's what it looks like anyway.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 01:50 AM   #35
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Yeah indeed. If you've ever been to the Seattle Public Market, it started with a single building and then just added on hodge-podge as it grew, well that's what it looks like anyway.
It would be interesting to know if the folks behind the Public Market have expansion plans, and what they look like.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 02:43 AM   #36
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It would be interesting to know if the folks behind the Public Market have expansion plans, and what they look like.
Realistically where could they go? Under the freeway?
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Old October 13th, 2016, 03:33 AM   #37
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Realistically where could they go? Under the freeway?
Yeah! The Pike Place Market could all be under a freeway and no one inside would know. At least where the walkable mall is.

Windows? We don't need no freaking windows! Toss me a fish!

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Old October 13th, 2016, 03:56 AM   #38
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Realistically where could they go? Under the freeway?
There is no way they could move under the freeway. You would have to completely redesign that section of freeway, which was just redone.

The more I think about this the more I actually like this idea at the post office. They definitely would not be able to fill out an entire floor of the post office, but could you imagine the first floor with an open market to the river? Maybe include the St. Paul Fish bar out there, man I really like that.

The only thing that I could find about potential expansion was for St Paul Fish wanting to add on an outdoor area that could keep heat better during the colder days. I don't know if that ever went through, though.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 04:08 AM   #39
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There is no way they could move under the freeway. You would have to completely redesign that section of freeway, which was just redone.
Why do you think they'd have to redesign that section of the freeway? There's plenty of room for a one story addition under there. It's currently the main parking lot which means there are much better uses (as long as parking remains accessible for suburbanites and visitors who have a car and need clear signage on where to park)
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Old October 13th, 2016, 04:12 AM   #40
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Why do you think they'd have to redesign that section of the freeway? There's plenty of room for a one story addition under there. It's currently the main parking lot which means there are much better uses (as long as parking remains accessible for suburbanites and visitors who have a car and need clear signage on where to park)
So you are saying build around the freeway pillars? I think that would look ugly as hell and not very efficient.
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