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Old May 2nd, 2018, 12:09 PM   #101
JohnDee
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The current tower is very nice for a building of the time, but if the new tower has a contemporary design and happens to be more interesting than a blue glass box, i say it's a win. A fantastic bank building like you see in China, something hyper modern, would really stand out in the area.
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Old May 4th, 2018, 10:49 PM   #102
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Quote:
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The current tower is very nice for a building of the time, but if the new tower has a contemporary design and happens to be more interesting than a blue glass box, i say it's a win. A fantastic bank building like you see in China, something hyper modern, would really stand out in the area.
The ultra modern Chinese designs always get passed up in this city, just like Zaha's design for 425 Park. (I do like Foster's 425 Park though.)
They end up spending 4b for a box instead.
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Old May 5th, 2018, 12:32 AM   #103
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The ultra modern Chinese designs always get passed up in this city, just like Zaha's design for 425 Park. (I do like Foster's 425 Park though.)
They end up spending 4b for a box instead.
associating ulta modern architecture solely with China is incredibly misguided. As is claiming these sort of designs always get passed up in NYC. eg





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Old May 6th, 2018, 09:57 AM   #104
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associating ulta modern architecture solely with China is incredibly misguided. As is claiming these sort of designs always get passed up in NYC. eg





Unfortunately china truly is on another level when it comes to ultra modern scrapers. He's not wrong in suggesting that ny has not reached it so far. The projects in NY are nice but much of the stuff going up over there makes these photos look frankly quaint.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 10:00 AM   #105
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For instance?
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Old May 6th, 2018, 11:06 PM   #106
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I would agree that Chinese designs are more flamboyant, but not better.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 11:15 PM   #107
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For instance?
I present to you the toilet building. It will flush away your doubts.






Seriously though NYC needs more taller buildings with more varied shapes and taking risks like other cities.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 11:20 PM   #108
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^LOL!!! All we need now is Godzilla sitting on it!
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Old May 8th, 2018, 04:30 AM   #109
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I present to you the toilet building. It will flush away your doubts.






Seriously though NYC needs more taller buildings with more varied shapes and taking risks like other cities.


The problem in NYC is that putting up buildings costs about 4x the price compared to many other cities. Developers are going to try and get as much money as feasibly possible for a plot of land which is why you see so many boxy buildings. As much as we here wish , a lot of companies donít want to pay higher rent for a building so developers can recoup the costs of a decorative crown.
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Old May 8th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #110
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great location
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Old May 9th, 2018, 03:03 AM   #111
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I don’t see how Waterline Square or even the towers in Hudson Yards can be compared with Shanghai Tower, Shanghai World Financial Center, or the Greenland Center. Those towers make jaws drop, whereas HY is notable but not truly remarkable.

Tower Verre is a masterpiece, and a rarity in NYC, but it suffers from a lack of scale and location that will temper some of it. (It’ll still be an icon, dont get me wrong.)

1 WTC is the closest we have, and I consider it a masterpiece as well, but a Shanghai Tower? There’s nothing even close in our city.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 03:30 AM   #112
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I don’t see how Waterline Square or even the towers in Hudson Yards can be compared with Shanghai Tower, Shanghai World Financial Center, or the Greenland Center. Those towers make jaws drop, whereas HY is notable but not truly remarkable.

Tower Verre is a masterpiece, and a rarity in NYC, but it suffers from a lack of scale and location that will temper some of it. (It’ll still be an icon, dont get me wrong.)

1 WTC is the closest we have, and I consider it a masterpiece as well, but a Shanghai Tower? There’s nothing even close in our city.
I think you're blurring height with design and scale. Height isn't everything. Hudson Yards is indeed truly remarkable, it's the largest private development in the city's history. 270 Park will be the largest skyscraper in the history of the world to be purposefully demolished and redeveloped.Hopefully the design of the future tower will warrant such a circumstance.
The Super/megatalls of China are also remarkable, but other than Shenzhen and Guangzhou they are designed to be the stars of their respective cities and don't have much to compete with.

Last edited by Hudson11; May 17th, 2018 at 12:10 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 04:22 AM   #113
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I don’t see how Waterline Square or even the towers in Hudson Yards can be compared with Shanghai Tower, Shanghai World Financial Center, or the Greenland Center. Those towers make jaws drop, whereas HY is notable but not truly remarkable.

Tower Verre is a masterpiece, and a rarity in NYC, but it suffers from a lack of scale and location that will temper some of it. (It’ll still be an icon, dont get me wrong.)

1 WTC is the closest we have, and I consider it a masterpiece as well, but a Shanghai Tower? There’s nothing even close in our city.
I dont really know what you expect. You compare a bunch of residential towers, that IMO are more than nice with two towers that are purposefully designed to be center pieces of Shanghais skyline.

I think what we have happening in NYC is remarkable. It is now the city with the second most supertalls worldwide. There is still more to come. We are going to get timeless!!! masterpieces like One Vanderbilt, Steinway, 9 Dekalb, 45 Broad and such. The Hudson Yards isnt shy of anything done in China. 35 HY is an instant icon. If you look closer to the smaller towers done in lets say Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen, they often have randon cut outs at the edges, some slanted roofs and such, nothing that really makes them special. The two towers that stand out in Guangzhou for isntance are the Pearl River tower and the CTF center, IMO. The China Zhu Center in Beijing is something i come up with in Sketchup after 10 minutes of random modelling and then i just think to myself, thats nothing, restart. I feel like a lot of the towers done in China are just based on trends, trends that lead to very tall towers that cant be hidden let alone razed at a later point. Therefore I am happy we are getting as I said timeless designs in NYC. Even Xi Jinping wants to reduce the "avantgarde architecture" in China and give the cities more refined designs. Lets say in 20 years, how are we going to think about the CCTV building? I think you get what I try to say.

Edit: Its also not just abt tall, crazy towers, many of the asian cities lack real city fabric, vibrancy in the CBDs, good planing and such. The feeling that you get walking around Manhattan is very unique, and what city can say it has 400m + towers in the middle of very dense city fabric? Hint, Steinway, 432, Vanderbilt and CPT.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #114
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Western cities are usually subject to highly complex planning frameworks and methodologies that have evolved over decades and decades or even centuries, and subject to public and political scrutiny, so (luckily) architects can't just throw up funny looking towers shaped like blobs or elephants or whatever, design is generally more conservative and refined so to blend in with the wider urban fabric, even in low rise cities like Dublin with huge amounts of construction, the designs are varied, but of very high quality and a degree of uniformness that creates a dense and pleasant urban environment.

Having lived in a number of Western cities (London, Dublin, Bristol) and Asian cities (Ho Chi Minh, Singapore, Hong Kong) I can say that both have their advantages and disadvantages, Dublin is very liveable but not very exciting, Ho Chi Minh is amazing and chaotic and exciting, but not very liveable and has no real urban planning or harmonized urban fabric beyond the dense central areas.

NYC from my experience has an amazing urban fabric similar to London etc. that is packed full of monolithic buildings that have subtle refinement from every era
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Old May 9th, 2018, 04:44 PM   #115
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I think you all protest too much.
Iím not knocking these projects - I love NYC and have lived here, and think itís the greatest skyscraper museum in the world. Iím only talking specifically about ultra-modern designs, and how they often get passed over for boxes. I donít think thatís controversial.

I only mention size in regards to Tower Verre because of its location: itís sandwiched in there on 53rd which takes away a bit from its presence (as did its height cut). Iím still calling it an icon, just saying that itíll be harder to spot than I wish it were (like if the Chrysler became sandwiched between two towers). But such is life in the big city.

I agree with the sentiments otherwise. I just wish developers would take chances with more amorphous or different shapes and daring designs like even London has.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 04:47 PM   #116
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You mean the design change that happened at the Girasole site?

And about Verre, I actually agree with you. The mass that NYCs skyline is, makes it hard for it to stick out, the best POV on it is from top of the rock and the park. Its more or less unnoticable from all other points of view.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 06:03 PM   #117
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If you think of a skyscraper anywhere in the world that would look nice in New York City, you can look for a model of it in Google Sketchup and move it to New York City in Google Earth. I did that a few pages back with CTF Tianjin, but there are endless more possibilities. You could test how the Petronas Twin Towers would look in New York City.

Personally I am not very excited about the new tower, if it will only have 18 more floors than the old one and the 366 metres include a very long spire. But we will see.
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Old May 12th, 2018, 09:53 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyoe121 View Post
Western cities are usually subject to highly complex planning frameworks and methodologies that have evolved over decades and decades or even centuries, and subject to public and political scrutiny, so (luckily) architects can't just throw up funny looking towers shaped like blobs or elephants or whatever, design is generally more conservative and refined so to blend in with the wider urban fabric, even in low rise cities like Dublin with huge amounts of construction, the designs are varied, but of very high quality and a degree of uniformness that creates a dense and pleasant urban environment.

Having lived in a number of Western cities (London, Dublin, Bristol) and Asian cities (Ho Chi Minh, Singapore, Hong Kong) I can say that both have their advantages and disadvantages, Dublin is very liveable but not very exciting, Ho Chi Minh is amazing and chaotic and exciting, but not very liveable and has no real urban planning or harmonized urban fabric beyond the dense central areas.

NYC from my experience has an amazing urban fabric similar to London etc. that is packed full of monolithic buildings that have subtle refinement from every era
Oh no, we are well aware that NY is a great city (A premier city, indeed, although IMHO London is nicer), but what the hell, why on earth are the architects and devs. so bad in good old NY, the largest city in my country? They are designing boxy ugly outdated monstrosities like 55 HY, CPT, and 3WTC. Why? Who the hell knows, but basically I think it's due to the sad fact that the big monied developers are all greedy scumbags who wouldn't know good inspired modern design if it hit them in the arse (oh, and the pesky little issue of costs, that too..)

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Old May 12th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #119
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I think you all protest too much.
I’m not knocking these projects - I love NYC and have lived here, and think it’s the greatest skyscraper museum in the world. I’m only talking specifically about ultra-modern designs, and how they often get passed over for boxes. I don’t think that’s controversial.

I only mention size in regards to Tower Verre because of its location: it’s sandwiched in there on 53rd which takes away a bit from its presence (as did its height cut). I’m still calling it an icon, just saying that it’ll be harder to spot than I wish it were (like if the Chrysler became sandwiched between two towers). But such is life in the big city.

I agree with the sentiments otherwise. I just wish developers would take chances with more amorphous or different shapes and daring designs like even London has.
This ain't Shanghai. I'ts not the NY of the 1920's. Realize that first, then realize that this is the city where a chief planning bureaucrat was once able to get a masterpiece (tower Verre) cut down and turned into a well decorated potato. You want Shanghai's fancy towers, you want Ping An, and Burj Dubai in old NY? Well, Gary Barnett and Larry Silverstein, Ross, etc, will laugh you out of the room if you suggest or even dare wonder why they aren't accommodating your "fantastical, unreasonable, unfathomable otherworldly desires." It comes down to money (also architects do their shitty work in NY ). There's an old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me.. well, shame on me for expecting NY, the so-called world's capital (as many NY'ers like to crow on about) to ever design a decent modern cutting-edge tower! Face it, the current NY is not looking to impress the world anymore, but the kids being born now might see something worth seeing.

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Old May 12th, 2018, 09:17 PM   #120
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These Chinese-style huge corporate megatall monoliths, I associate them a lot more with "new money" and can picture them a lot more in the West Coast or Texas. New York I associate more with "old money", which tends to have more subdued headquarters.
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