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Old May 4th, 2019, 05:23 PM   #21
Hudson11
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Tower Fifth is so tall that it might as well be directly adjacent so it will block views to the west.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 05:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by aquamaroon View Post
Amazing. For comparison Dubai has "only" 8 if you count ALL the proposals including those on hold, and even Shenzhen would just equal that at a dozen if you add up all of their proposals. While it may not have a mega tall it seems like NYC is one of the few places in the world where a multitude of 400m tall supertalls are economically feasible
Why talk about distant future - this year NYC will have 4 true 400plus towers (true - counting only roof height). No other city in the world is able to compete now. Dubai, Hong Kong, SHanghai, SHenzhen the key rivals have all "only" 2 400m+ towers (counting roof height). You can take joy from that
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Old May 4th, 2019, 06:00 PM   #23
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Dubai only has 1 roof 400m tower, both 101 Marina and the Princess Towers roofs dont reach 400m, but their roof features only.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 06:15 PM   #24
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Why talk about distant future - this year NYC will have 4 true 400plus towers (true - counting only roof height). No other city in the world is able to compete now. Dubai, Hong Kong, SHanghai, SHenzhen the key rivals have all "only" 2 400m+ towers (counting roof height). You can take joy from that

You could argue they many of the 400m or close to, have better designs in other cities. I really want New York to have a supertall twisty skyscraper though.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 06:29 PM   #25
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You could argue they many of the 400m or close to, have better designs in other cities. I really want New York to have a supertall twisty skyscraper though.
That's subjective. We were going to have a 'twisty' supertall at 3 Hudson Boulevard, but you can blame Moinian for changing plans. Most plots of land in Manhattan end up being boxy, so, to maximize floor space, the designs follow suit.



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Old May 4th, 2019, 06:57 PM   #26
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True it's just a shame they can't break the mold every now and again for something really unique to the skyline in terms of a supertall. Perhaps they will soon enough.....
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Old May 5th, 2019, 11:34 AM   #27
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Most plots of land in Manhattan end up being boxy, so, to maximize floor space, the designs follow suit.
I think, rather, it has more to do with how floor plates are assembled inside the structure itself?

You could have a perfectly square, plot of land, and still build a circle on it; What's gonna determine how you do so is the FAR, the circumference of the circle, and how much square footage you need.

A squar-ish footprint might get you 100% of the desired floor area in only 10 floors; a circular one might need 35 to get to 90%.

Most tenants don't care about the exterior at the expense of the interior and most developers don't rent height but floor area. Hence, the focus on those latter points.

I'd suppose multiple things are at work: a) tenants want as much floor space as possible on as few floors as possible, b) the less area-per-floor due to design constraints; the more floors necessary overall to achieve the desired square footage, c) FAR interacts strangely with all of this (ie. it doesn't necessarily cap heights, but it caps the mass).

I think it's why commercial developments tend to be far more conventional compared to residential.

In any case, every structure is a box (in that it is enclosed with something inside it).

Only, some are simply more orthogonal than others
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Old May 5th, 2019, 03:33 PM   #28
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Vornado’s Supertall 350 Park Avenue Fully Revealed, Expected To Rise Nearly 1,500′ To Pinnacle










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Amidst the ongoing evolution of the Manhattan skyline, one of the most notable recent changes has been the completion of the Midtown East rezoning, which has already resulted in the rise of One Vanderbilt. Now, with 270 Park Avenue and other projects already on the development boards, Vornado and Rudin Management’s plans for 350 Park Avenue have been fully revealed, depicting yet another supertall that would rise almost 1,500 feet to its pinnacle. While the architect has not been confirmed, YIMBY is strongly suspicious that the design is by Foster + Partners, the firm responsible for the nearly-complete 425 Park Avenue.
The plans were leaked thanks to a mysterious brochure created by both Vornado and Rudin Management. The multi-page prospectus contains dozens of images for the project, featuring both interiors and exteriors, offering a surprisingly comprehensive early look for something that is likely still at least a few years from the start of actual construction.
Architecturally, the design for 350 Park Avenue would be a dramatic departure from both historical and contemporary stylings that currently predominate the Manhattan skyline, featuring a striking mix of classical massing proportions and an ultra-modern facade that is very reminiscent of Foster’s Hearst Tower. With staggered setbacks progressing inward from Park Avenue, the envelope would shrink substantially from the street level to the rooftop, appearing similar in silhouette to a cheese grater.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 10:03 PM   #29
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How likely is this to be built?
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Old May 5th, 2019, 11:19 PM   #30
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It might get spoiled by having Tower Fifth directly behind it, but it could also mean that Tower Fight will not be built at all, because it loses at lot of its views.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 02:19 AM   #31
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What's with the entire west portion having no windows? Is that an exterior core or something? Seems like a lost opportunity for offices with views, but without more details I'm only guessing.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 02:32 AM   #32
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while i'm not a fan of the trend of protruding cores, at least this design, like 425 Park, is appropriate for the surrondings. Need I bring up BIG's disgusting design for 29th and 5th, or Meganom's 262 5th?



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Old May 6th, 2019, 02:38 AM   #33
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Very nice looking building. Hoping it gets built.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 09:30 AM   #34
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My idea: Get rid of Tower Fifth and put all those air rights into a symmetrical and even taller version of this tower:

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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:10 AM   #35
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Thank god this will never happen.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:28 AM   #36
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Thank god this will never happen.
I was just searching for a solution to avoid that windowless western facade. It is sad to have a 400+ metre tower and one side does not have any views at all. That's very uncommon in other cities.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 02:35 PM   #37
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The windowless side will face Tower Fifth, so its not too bad at this location.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 03:21 PM   #38
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It looks like an "offset core" design. See Cheesegrater plan.... circulation pulled to one side, allowing for large open spaces. Looks like Rogers uses a more typical curtain wall on the backside there though. 425 Park Ave has an offset core as well. Not sure what happens on the backside.

Renderings look sweet!

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Old May 6th, 2019, 06:23 PM   #39
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I was just searching for a solution to avoid that windowless western facade. It is sad to have a 400+ metre tower and one side does not have any views at all. That's very uncommon in other cities.
There's going to be a tower next to it. That's why a lot of towers have blank walls in New York City if they are not a full city block.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 07:57 PM   #40
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Reminds me of the unbuilt India Tower in Mumbai:



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It might get spoiled by having Tower Fifth directly behind it, but it could also mean that Tower Fight will not be built at all, because it loses at lot of its views.
Views are far less a consideration in commercial buildings than in residential ones. I don't think it'd factor in too much, at least from the developer's and lessees' perspectives.

I do wonder, if the floor plates in the uppermost section are too small, they might consider a hotel/residential use.
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