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Old August 14th, 2019, 10:11 AM   #201
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Quote:
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Why would you build a HSR station there at all?
Where would you suggest a HSR/SRL interchange?
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Old August 14th, 2019, 10:53 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
More suitable locations? I actually strongly disagree with this. Coburg and Preston have both heavy rail and bus and are far closer to existing employment areas.

The point of the line is not to avoid interchanges at all but to make use of them. Coburg and Preston are doing fine as it is and doesn't need another line to make it work. Other areas on the network do. In addition, Coburg and Preston aren't the destination precincts like Box Hill that justifies the line there.



Broadmeadows also needs assistance to develop the precinct.
Let me rephrase that to potentially more suitable locations.

Box Hill is on an existing line too and also doing just fine as it is. I'm not sure what a destination is but whether Box Hill is more appealing to visit than Coburg is arguable.

Broadmeadows may not be doing as well as Box Hill, but it still has existing heavy rail and can benefit from efficient interchanges further south. An SRL hub would be better sure, but that's not necessarily the best outcome for the network. If we accept that the loop isn't necessary past the Airport due to the MARL, it follows that the SRL doesn't have to go via Broadmeadows.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 11:32 AM   #203
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Where would you suggest a HSR/SRL interchange?
It's plainly obvious that your understanding of Melbourne is zero.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 12:52 PM   #204
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It's plainly obvious that your understanding of Melbourne is zero.
And your understanding of the need for HSR to interchange with SRL is?
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Old August 14th, 2019, 01:13 PM   #205
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Not worth proving to you. It'd be like arguing with a child.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 02:32 PM   #206
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Not worth proving to you. It'd be like arguing with a child.
You mean you haven't anything constructive to say?
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Old August 14th, 2019, 03:57 PM   #207
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You mean you haven't anything constructive to say?
Ignore him. He's a condescending tosser in every thread he visits. It's not worth massaging his ego
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Old August 14th, 2019, 05:01 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
Where would you suggest a HSR/SRL interchange?
Despite having only the Kevvy '07 2013 study to go on, whose conclusion (Camp Road/Fawkner/Upfield corridor with a tunnel to SX/whatever made sense at the time) with the SRL, most likely, on the cards, the answer to your question will be: wherever the SRL northern section stations will be.

Reservoir, Fawkner, Broadmeadows or the Airport.

That's because people from the other northern suburbs, as well as the east will likely have a quick one or two train change stop to the northern suburbs versus traveling into the city/boarding trains at SX.

HSR and SRL are both, technically, vapourware at the moment - minimal public documentation (and what is in the public domain is still very much lines on a map). SRL however has a chunky planning/concept design budgetary commitment and that concept will be developed far in advance than anything in the HSR arena, therefore, Melbourne's northern station (if that concept continues through to an eventual, real, HSR proposal) should be guided by the SRL process.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 05:52 PM   #209
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Despite having only the Kevvy '07 2013 study to go on, whose conclusion (Camp Road/Fawkner/Upfield corridor with a tunnel to SX/whatever made sense at the time) with the SRL, most likely, on the cards, the answer to your question will be: wherever the SRL northern section stations will be.

Reservoir, Fawkner, Broadmeadows or the Airport.

That's because people from the other northern suburbs, as well as the east will likely have a quick one or two train change stop to the northern suburbs versus traveling into the city/boarding trains at SX.

HSR and SRL are both, technically, vapourware at the moment - minimal public documentation (and what is in the public domain is still very much lines on a map). SRL however has a chunky planning/concept design budgetary commitment and that concept will be developed far in advance than anything in the HSR arena, therefore, Melbourne's northern station (if that concept continues through to an eventual, real, HSR proposal) should be guided by the SRL process.
I'm just pondering the practicalities and costs.

Originally the 2013 Study had a "North Melbourne" station just north of Camp Road. Probably one of their least objectionable station location decisions.

It would be good if the SRL and HSR could have an interchange. They don't have to but it would be pretty silly if they didn't.

If you think it through then what would actually happen looks like this...

With Fawkner the least destructive option is to run the HSR line in a shallow cut and cover tunnel under the Upfield line. That means temporarily disrupting the Upfield line. So Fawkner station would be stacked with the Upfield line platforms on top and the HSR platforms below. Even so it probably means losing some of the cemetery's outbuildings and possibly a few graves would have to be relocated. Its not like this kind of thing hasn't been done before, but you can forget about uplift/development around the station. What makes it hard though is if the SRL station is underground and overlaps the HSR station. Can get very expensive after the fact.

With Broadmeadows you've got similar issues except that now its commercial properties and some houses potentially being upgraded (I love that euphemism). And again a SRL station in the wrong place can make life so much more expensive.

However an interchange station on the Upfield line around Camp Road or the M80 leaves a lot of room to play with, plus its a huge opportunity for redevelopment/uplift.

The airport is only a sensible option if the airport line is designed to allow high speed trains to travel at reasonable speed - certainly less than 15 minutes and preferably more like 12 minutes. I'm expecting to be disappointed, but we'll see. There's also the issue of what other trains will be sharing these tracks.

The bottom line is that the SRL should be planned with a view to not blocking (or making exceptionally costly) HSR interchange.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 12:08 AM   #210
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Ignore him. He's a condescending tosser in every thread he visits. It's not worth massaging his ego
Aren't you a delight.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 12:10 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
You mean you haven't anything constructive to say?
Certainly do. But i've seen your extensive post history in the HSR thread, and it's very clear you have very little understanding of infrastructure outside the Sydney/Central Coast/Southern Highlands areas.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 04:40 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
I'm just pondering the practicalities and costs.

Originally the 2013 Study had a "North Melbourne" station just north of Camp Road. Probably one of their least objectionable station location decisions.

It would be good if the SRL and HSR could have an interchange. They don't have to but it would be pretty silly if they didn't.

If you think it through then what would actually happen looks like this...

With Fawkner the least destructive option is to run the HSR line in a shallow cut and cover tunnel under the Upfield line. That means temporarily disrupting the Upfield line. So Fawkner station would be stacked with the Upfield line platforms on top and the HSR platforms below. Even so it probably means losing some of the cemetery's outbuildings and possibly a few graves would have to be relocated. Its not like this kind of thing hasn't been done before, but you can forget about uplift/development around the station. What makes it hard though is if the SRL station is underground and overlaps the HSR station. Can get very expensive after the fact.

With Broadmeadows you've got similar issues except that now its commercial properties and some houses potentially being upgraded (I love that euphemism). And again a SRL station in the wrong place can make life so much more expensive.

However an interchange station on the Upfield line around Camp Road or the M80 leaves a lot of room to play with, plus its a huge opportunity for redevelopment/uplift.

The airport is only a sensible option if the airport line is designed to allow high speed trains to travel at reasonable speed - certainly less than 15 minutes and preferably more like 12 minutes. I'm expecting to be disappointed, but we'll see. There's also the issue of what other trains will be sharing these tracks.

The bottom line is that the SRL should be planned with a view to not blocking (or making exceptionally costly) HSR interchange.
MARL is targeting 18 minutes SC to MEL at 10 minute intervals.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 04:46 AM   #213
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That's not too bad, but its probably too slow for the airport to be a HSR connection. Anyhow, back to the loopy-ness..
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Old August 15th, 2019, 07:07 AM   #214
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18min is too slow?

How many major airports are closer?
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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:19 AM   #215
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18min is too slow?

How many major airports are closer?
Its not bad at all for an airport link. Its too slow to be the final leg of a HSR trip.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 10:51 AM   #216
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Sure, however it's more likely being designed to carry SRL rolling-stock and not HSR.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 12:34 PM   #217
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Sure, however it's more likely being designed to carry SRL rolling-stock and not HSR.
I thought the airport link would have its own type of train, separate from SRL?
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Old August 15th, 2019, 03:05 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
Where would you suggest a HSR/SRL interchange?
The Airport obviously makes far and away the most sense. If MARL is built properly it can function as the first leg of a future HSR line northwards.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 09:04 PM   #219
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The Airport obviously makes far and away the most sense. If MARL is built properly it can function as the first leg of a future HSR line northwards.
ease, simplicity...perfect. Great convergence for HSR already out of the CBD for regional passengers coming from Glong, bendigo and Ballarat etc and beyond
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Old August 16th, 2019, 12:39 AM   #220
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Quote:
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I thought the airport link would have its own type of train, separate from SRL?
It may or it may not. However it's more likely to have SRL rolling stock than HSR rolling stock.
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