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Old October 18th, 2019, 12:55 PM   #3061
daumal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birmingham View Post
I would love to know why Merkel and Macron have informed colleagues they are afraid of Britain becoming a rival power alongside the US and China but on their doorstep if they don't also believe the UK will succeed outside the EU. Why do you think they've made it so difficult to leave, to try and retain us within their customs union, used the termionlogy 'level playing field'. It's because they're shitting it. The problem is, 48% of our population are to scared, conservative, numbed by going it alone. The nation needs to grow some balls.
I'll ignore the rest of your post because nobody's got the time to rehash the same old tired (and highly disingenuous) arguments, but this is actually worth responding to. The UK will never be a rival power 'alongside the US and China'. Never. What Merkel and Macron are worried about is that their economies could be out-competed by a low-tax state with workers rights' on a par with the USA on their doorstep. They don't want 70 million cheap workers with no rights dragging the rest of the continent into a race to the bottom.

You might say that there's no guarantee that will happen,and you'd be right. But it is the logical conclusion of several more decades of the right-wing policies which have broadly caused the issues for which you blame the EU earlier in your post, and the stated aspiration of much of Boris Johnson's cabinet.

I'm in favour of more immigration from all over the world, and using the monetary benefit from that to improve services infrastructure and housing for everybody. But we don't need to leave the EU to make that happen.

(Oh look, I didn't ignore it after all!)
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Old October 18th, 2019, 01:11 PM   #3062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefton66 View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50043349

A reason why trade deals under the EU can effect us, alone we may not have these tariffs imposed on us....
Quote:
He says that while Italy's suitmakers - who are not facing US tariffs - have actively promoted their industry, Savile Row has not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50043349

So let me get this straight, your point is that being in the EU can impact us but Italy, who last time i checked, are also in the EU, are not facing the US tariffs?

This is big boy trade, the US is leveraging it's power here. But Italian suit makers, also in the EU, do not have tariffs. Ironically, depending on what the EU do, as the article states, "any pain felt by UK businesses - may be short-lived as the EU could then be given the green light to enforce its own tariffs on US goods".

So the point you were making isn't actually supported by the article you posted.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 01:19 PM   #3063
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Originally Posted by BhamJim View Post
Surely it's a simple case of weighing up the pro's and cons, and an attempt at easing through the deal with the people of Northern Ireland.

A positive of the EU was access to the single market, but the cons of free movement, customs union, common agricultural policy, fisheries, state aid, vat rates, ECJ supremacy, member fees etc... outweighed that (and the other positives) in the opinion of the British voters.

I don't think anyone denies there are positives to the EU. I do think though that a lot of remainers choose to ignore the negatives.

I also don't think it's weak press not picking up on that comment, it's simply not newsworthy.
I agree and this is why its all stupid. There are positives and negatives to everything. However, you have brexit politicians saying now, at the same time, that being in the EU is a good thing and also that being in the EU is a bad thing. It cannot be both. The single market must be good for NI to still have to be in it. If that is the case, why do we not have a deal for the UK to be in the single market? The single market must therefore also be bad.

At this point, what they are saying is so much of a contradiction it makes their own position so questionable. That is why it is newsworthy and that is why it is weak press. The press aren't even asking Brexist politicians to explain that contradiction.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 01:52 PM   #3064
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Your questions are straight out the Telegrapgh propaganda machine by the looks of it.
But the Independent is okay???

Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
How anyone can see things like this as being a detriment to people whilst also typing a post to say the EU is the cause of all ills of British people is beyond me.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to think leaving the EU will solve 'all' our ills. But the majority think we'd be better off out than in. Again, generally speaking I think leavers know there are benefits to be sacrificed.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 07:55 PM   #3065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhamJim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
Your questions are straight out the Telegrapgh propaganda machine by the looks of it.
But the Independent is okay???

Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
How anyone can see things like this as being a detriment to people whilst also typing a post to say the EU is the cause of all ills of British people is beyond me.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to think leaving the EU will solve 'all' our ills. But the majority think we'd be better off out than in. Again, generally speaking I think leavers know there are benefits to be sacrificed.
I should think they do. Only 35% of them thought we’d leave the single market, such was the mendacity of the Leave campaign. But hey, they knew what they voted for. Strange that they still can’t agree amongst themselves what it was.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 09:01 PM   #3066
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Well said djay, indeed some brexitiers on here are the deluded ones.

Hopefully this rubbish deal with be put into the rubbish bin tomorrow and we stop Brexshit.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 02:58 AM   #3067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhamJim View Post
But the Independent is okay???



I don't think anyone is naive enough to think leaving the EU will solve 'all' our ills. But the majority think we'd be better off out than in. Again, generally speaking I think leavers know there are benefits to be sacrificed.
I post info from a variety of news papers. But it should be noted that the Independent is a politically neutral paper that leans to the right on economic issues. Thatís certainly more balanced than the conservative Telegrapgh. What alternative universe are you living in to even try to suggest that the independent is more bias than the Telegrapgh?

I think many will be shocked once the Government repeals the working time directive and the rota at work has them working for 70 hours like they do in for instance, South Africa. It may not happen the day after we leave but believe me, workers rights will be slowly stripped away.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 01:11 PM   #3068
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So the point you were making isn't actually supported by the article you posted.
Let me re quote the bit you clearly didnít read
Quote:
They are on a list of products the US is targeting with tariffs in retaliation for the EU giving illegal subsidies to plane-maker Airbus.

Now if we wasnít part of the EU chances are the US wouldnít have retaliated against us for a decision the EU made no?
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Old October 19th, 2019, 01:17 PM   #3069
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Originally Posted by sefton66 View Post
Let me re quote the bit you clearly didnít read



Now if we wasnít part of the EU chances are the US wouldnít have retaliated against us for a decision the EU made no?
When you say, a decision the EU made, do you think the U.K. wasnít sat at the table when the decision was made?

You seem to have this idea that the EU is something that we have no say in.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 01:47 PM   #3070
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Equally it is easier as one country not to piss off another country and come to agreements than as a group of countries with different views and advantages/disadvantages to their country

Effectively tariffs are being imposed on UK products for something which has happened across the EU
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Old October 19th, 2019, 01:48 PM   #3071
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Originally Posted by djay View Post

I think many will be shocked once the Government repeals the working time directive and the rota at work has them working for 70 hours like they do in for instance, South Africa. It may not happen the day after we leave but believe me, workers rights will be slowly stripped away.
Sounds like project fear again

Show facts for where this will happen
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Old October 19th, 2019, 02:41 PM   #3072
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Airbus employs 1000s of people in the UK, and the UK has been involved in the decision making for the EU.

The sanctions are actually being decided by the WTO.

There is also a counter action by the EU with the WTO which will put tariffs on US imports due to US state aid.

The problem with you Brexiters is you use simplistic tabloid arguments without having a clue.
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Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM   #3073
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Originally Posted by sefton66 View Post
Sounds like project fear again

Show facts for where this will happen
Well the fact is, you donít need to remove level playing field protection to improve workers rights. Iím not saying it will happen but the current deal allows it to happen. Currently it cannot happen.

Iíd rather not have the risk.
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Old Yesterday, 09:46 PM   #3074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefton66 View Post
Equally it is easier as one country not to piss off another country and come to agreements than as a group of countries with different views and advantages/disadvantages to their country

Effectively tariffs are being imposed on UK products for something which has happened across the EU
So as an independent nation, outside of the EU, how do you think we'll fare in negotiations with the most powerful nation in the world? Do you think we'll be able to dictate terms? Or will they run roughshod over us?
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Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM   #3075
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It’s much easier to come to an agreement as one country than multiple countries each protecting their own industries etc.
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