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Old October 17th, 2019, 04:30 AM   #4361
mgk920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davide84 View Post
This is done on purpose and corresponds to an opposite philosophy: public transport must be as easy as possible, ticketing control is based on trust and random checks, stations and trains have no gates nor special procedures... you just travel.

Today I bought a daily pass, I put it in my backpack and then I travelled on 14 different trains. As a user I liked a lot that I did not have to care about validating some kind of chipcard 28 times 🙂

If you miss the Dutch approach you can try the new "check in check out" functionality of the SBB app, I think it goes exactly in that direction.
A lot of USA tram systems are on that 'honor' system, either with single ride 'validated' tickets and/or show-on-demand passes coupled with random checks.

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Old October 17th, 2019, 07:18 AM   #4362
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I can see that working in disciplined and obedient Switzerland, but in the free-thinking and individualistic USA? Not so sure...
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Old October 17th, 2019, 02:07 PM   #4363
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Quote:
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How are the works to make the OV-Chipkaart system work with NFC smartphones?

-------------
side note: I miss an OV-Chipkaart-alike system here in Switzerland, where we lack any for of systematic passenger ticketing control, except on certain aerial tramways leading to mountain villages.
Not NFC capable, but you can use a QR-ticket on your phone in the NS-app.
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Old October 17th, 2019, 02:58 PM   #4364
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The OV-Chipkaart does not require check-out and check-in at train transfers (unless they involve transfers between two different operators, or so it was the rule).

So one can travel on 5 different trains to reach destination, only one check-in and one check-out required, unless they involve stations that don't have a single gated area (Sloterdijk comes to mind).

Similar rules apply to metro journeys in Amsterdam and Rotterdam.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 02:22 AM   #4365
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As far as I know, the "OV-chipkaart on your smartphone" project has been canned after a disastrous soft launch.

There have been trials with using contactless enabled bank and credit cards. These trials were considered a success and NS are investigating how to introduce this payment method to the general public.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 02:46 AM   #4366
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But if those tests went well wouldn't that mean that paying with your phone would also be possible there, considering you can already use them at card machines in stores?

Meaning that the banking and payment infrastructure on phones is already in place and that these recent tests connected that bank infrastructure to the OV-chip-readers. The previous tests were done with a seperate app and seperate ov-chip-mobile-payment app, not regular banking apps.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 08:25 AM   #4367
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Quote:
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As far as I know, the "OV-chipkaart on your smartphone" project has been canned after a disastrous soft launch.
I keep reading that it was "disastrous" but I used it (only Vodafone customers with Android phones could) and it worked brilliantly for me. I loved not having to carry the silly chipkaart with me. My wallet was full enough of plastic already.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 02:01 PM   #4368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
As far as I know, the "OV-chipkaart on your smartphone" project has been canned after a disastrous soft launch.

There have been trials with using contactless enabled bank and credit cards. These trials were considered a success and NS are investigating how to introduce this payment method to the general public.
NFC technology on phones is entirely compatible with the NFC technology of "contactless" (sic) on such cards! Maybe the problem was teetering the phone number to OV-Chipkaart accounts per se? If so, it is a roadblock on many attempts to tie payments with phone subscription accounts.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 10:28 AM   #4369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
As far as I know, the "OV-chipkaart on your smartphone" project has been canned after a disastrous soft launch.
I second the question of Slagathor: what was so "disastrous" about it? For whom it worked (Vodafone/Android), it worked in my experience brilliantly.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 05:25 PM   #4370
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What was 'disastrous' was that for a large percentage of users it did not work well at all. The user experience was subpar and a lot of users had issues. Of course, for some people it will have worked fine, but if it does not for a large percentage of users that still makes the trial a failure.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 06:51 PM   #4371
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The whole OV chipcard is outdated technology. Direct payment with bankcards are how the things should be done these days. The technology is proved, works in many PT in many cities around Europe. Direct mobile payment with mobile bank apps is then self evident.

I reckoned that I invested around 50 euro in the various OV chip cards in the last years, just to use the technology. What a ripoff for customers, what a blessing for whoever provides the technology.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 07:18 PM   #4372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeuwinthecity View Post
What was 'disastrous' was that for a large percentage of users it did not work well at all. The user experience was subpar and a lot of users had issues. Of course, for some people it will have worked fine, but if it does not for a large percentage of users that still makes the trial a failure.
can you provide some more detail? What were the issues? What did go wrong? I haven't used it myself, because I didn't fall in the category Vodafone/Android User, but friends of mine have used it and didn't report any relevant issue?

But I agree, that today contactless mobile payment connected to your bankcard is the better solution compared to a properitary system just for public transport.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 08:16 PM   #4373
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Many people thought it was too complicated because you needed to install - heaven forbid - two different apps on your phone. I remember reading a few articles about that. Honestly, when did people become that helpless?
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Old October 20th, 2019, 10:34 PM   #4374
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Re. "OV-chip mobiel":

If I recall correctly, you needed:
- A new SIM card with embedded NFC technology
- To install a couple of apps to get started
- To follow a setup guide which included transferring money to 'top up' your mobile OV-chipkaart

The apps were also rather unstable and in the end, it wasn't more convenient for passengers than using the existing system. People who got everything working usually were satisfied, but in the end the conclusion was that it would be too much of a hassle for nationwide roll-out.

Re. "pay with your bank card":

The OV-chipkaart system as it was rolled out last decade does not use standard NFC payments, it is based around the NXP MiFare technology. The readers used by NS on their totems and gatelines do not support the NFC payments protocol, they only 'talk' MiFare'.

Thus, to get the 'pay with your bank card' trial working the readers had to be replaced with newer models which speak NFC as well as MiFare. For the purposes of the trial, only a couple of readers had been replaced on all stations between and including The Hague and Leiden Centraal.

The test passengers have been instructed which validators to use during the trial, they look different enough from the current ones to make them stand out.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 09:10 AM   #4375
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Quote:
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The whole OV chipcard is outdated technology.
The root of all OV chipcard evil is that Translink wants to collect as much passenger information as possible. Any other system except for their own bespoke chip card system wouldn't have allowed them to do that.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 10:26 PM   #4376
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Still no plans to implement automatic route calculations through fixed stations?

Like, having a single check-in in Sliedrecht and check out in Rotterdam Beurs (Qbuzz > NS > RET).


I ask it from time to time...
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Old October 21st, 2019, 11:48 PM   #4377
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No plans for that, no.

There was once a plan to introduce single check-in/check-out between Connexxion and NS, on trial basis, but the competition authority blocked this as it would give the companies insights into travel patterns of passengers on other networks which could lead to a competitive (dis)advantage for some.
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 12:28 AM   #4378
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But why is it allowed for Blauwnet, which are different companies?
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 09:00 AM   #4379
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Simple. There are no Keolis trains on Arriva routes and vice versa. If you travel from Nijverdal to Hardenberg by Blauwnet, it is clear which operators you used over which distance. If you were to travel from Enschede to Zwolle you could do so via two different routes (Keolis or NS). In fact, the ticket machine is asking you which route you want to use when you buy a ticket.
Anyway you look at it, it is not very customer friendly, but as I remarked before, it never was intended to be (but they put some marketing spin on it to make everybody believe it was).
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 01:58 PM   #4380
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RET and GVM benefited handsomely from actual travel data from the OV-Chipkaart. Not only were the previous zone-based fare-sharing arrangements skewed toward bus contractors of regional networks, but also the actual modal split in certain routes was seriously underestimated. The OV-Chipkaart put an end to that
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