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Old May 2nd, 2013, 02:55 PM   #141
Adrian_Swall
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The cycle route along Neville Street appears to switch to different sides of the road?

Would have thought it would be better to be continuously on the north side going east and west?
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 04:05 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esde84 View Post
Newcastle City Council have put some links to plans on the following webpage
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/parking-...entral-gateway

From the above link . . .

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Old May 2nd, 2013, 04:39 PM   #143
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Quote:
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Newcastle City Council have put some links to plans on the following webpage
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/parking-...entral-gateway

Edited: I entered the URL wrong
Another plan from the above link:


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Old May 2nd, 2013, 04:41 PM   #144
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From that map it looks positive. Though I'm sure the effect on traffic won't be great, but it might be a price worth paying.

As for the Portico being glazed & turned into an internal space, this is exactly what happened in Sheffield and turned a small and unpleasant station into one of the nicest medium sized stations in the country.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 06:12 PM   #145
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At the bottom of grainger street it looks like there's a scalextrix style crossover between the car lane and the bus lane?! How exactly will that work?
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 07:31 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart View Post
As for the Portico being glazed & turned into an internal space, this is exactly what happened in Sheffield and turned a small and unpleasant station into one of the nicest medium sized stations in the country.
Exactly what I thought when I first saw the plans. Love Sheffield station.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 12:26 PM   #147
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So starting at Grainger St/ Westgate Rd. junction, if I want to drop someone off at the station I currently drive 280m round the corner onto Neville St and into the portico.

After these 'improvements', I will have to drive Westgate Rd - Collingwood St - St Nicholas' St - Westgate Rd - Neville St - Clayton St West - Bewick St and cross Neville St into the drop-off zone. A journey of 1300m.

Absolute madness.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 01:51 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by minimoog View Post
So starting at Grainger St/ Westgate Rd. junction, if I want to drop someone off at the station I currently drive 280m round the corner onto Neville St and into the portico.

After these 'improvements', I will have to drive Westgate Rd - Collingwood St - St Nicholas' St - Westgate Rd - Neville St - Clayton St West - Bewick St and cross Neville St into the drop-off zone. A journey of 1300m.

Absolute madness.
How did you get to the Westgate Road - Grainger Street Junction? The only ways I can see of legally getting there during daytime hours would be from St James' Blvd down Westgate road, or Up Pilgrim Street, on to Market Street onto Grainger Street.

If you have come from St James's Blvd then you would turn off at Wetsmorland Road instead which would feed round to Bewick Street.
If you have come from Pilgrim Street, getting to Swanhouse Roundabout (55 degrees building) is easy, where you just come off the roundabout to Mosley Street, and follow the route described from St Nicholas' St.

Yes from that exact point you mentioned the route would be longer, but you will have driven from somewhere else.

It seems from the plans that the council are trying to discourage the use of Westgate Road for dropping people off at the station, and using Westmorland road instead.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 01:54 PM   #149
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As part of the new 'welcoming' aura of the station, arriving travellers can now wait for taxis under our famous balmy skies rather than frowsting away under cover from the kindly elements. What a treat!
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 02:46 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esde84 View Post
How did you get to the Westgate Road - Grainger Street Junction? The only ways I can see of legally getting there during daytime hours would be from St James' Blvd down Westgate road, or Up Pilgrim Street, on to Market Street onto Grainger Street.

If you have come from St James's Blvd then you would turn off at Wetsmorland Road instead which would feed round to Bewick Street.
If you have come from Pilgrim Street, getting to Swanhouse Roundabout (55 degrees building) is easy, where you just come off the roundabout to Mosley Street, and follow the route described from St Nicholas' St.

Yes from that exact point you mentioned the route would be longer, but you will have driven from somewhere else.

It seems from the plans that the council are trying to discourage the use of Westgate Road for dropping people off at the station, and using Westmorland road instead.
Fair points. I never use Westmoreland Road though because it always seems like chaos getting onto it (at the junction with St James Blvd) from my usual approach along Scotswood Rd. So I always continue up SJB and turn right on Westgate Road, unless I've come down the West Road in the first place. Traffic on Westgate Rd always moves well and it's very easy to make the Station from this direction. Why they'd want to stop that I can't imagine, but as others have pointed out the town is littered with mindless obstructions to the free flow of traffic. As a result I fear Forth St could become an even busier rat-run than it is already.

I should note that I like the proposals for the station building itself, it's this traffic thing that's irking me.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 06:17 PM   #151
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Like a number of other cities, Newcastle is slowly moving the focus of the city away from the Car dominated designs that currently exist, and moving to more pedestrian and to some degree cycle friendly designs as they tend to create more pleasant spaces that people tend to spend more time (and money) in.

The older designs that have focussed on easy flowing motor traffic, tend to create spaces that people just pass through spending little time or money in the area and add to pollution directly in the area they are going through. The traffic this design introduces also tends to make the city feel uncomfortable for pedestrians, cycling feel very dangerous and slows down public transport (these three being the more preferable transport options for a city from a planning, social and environmental point of view)

With a change in focus like this, changes will be made that slow private motor vehicles down or create awkward routes and possibly discourage people driving straight through the centre. With changes like this being applied wider you are more likely to get people using more sustainable transport options too, as the private motor vehicle journey becomes too long to justify it. It will be annoying for a number of drivers at first.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 06:29 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esde84 View Post
With changes like this being applied wider you are more likely to get people using more sustainable transport options too
Or just going to the Metrocentre instead.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 07:08 PM   #153
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From what I can glean from the plans this development will not stop traffic coming from the East along Neville Street.

One of the problems is that traffic and pedestrians come into conflict outside the Central and there have been people knocked down outside there.
I have seen a lot of very near missses too with people running out in front of the traffic.

As much as I hate them I would thought an appropriately positioned speed 'cushion' would have slowed down traffic outside the portico.

Agree with comments about having people having to queue up outside for taxis in all weathers.
Same thing happens at the other end for tourists waiting for the ferry terminal buses.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 09:26 PM   #154
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Quote:
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At the bottom of grainger street it looks like there's a scalextrix style crossover between the car lane and the bus lane?! How exactly will that work?
Do you mean on wesgate road? Because grainger street won't be changed apart for paving the lower half at Barron house. If that's what you mean these bus/no car lanes are already there, and won't be new. Busses coming down wesgate road turn left on to grainger street and busses coming down grainger street turn left on on to wesgate road taking up the right hand bus lane, the only change will be that merging on to Nevile street, cars have to turn left but busses can turn left.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 11:44 PM   #155
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Is it just me, or does it seem like they are planning on making Westgate/Collingwood Street junction into a public space? Infront of the union rooms and the vacant westgate house site seem cleared of road.

As i have posted a few times. Beware of pedestrianisation. It makes for expansive and unecessary space, and cuts off movement. In time, people will look back on overpedestrianisation as much of a mistake as making everything highways.

Previous urban design theorums that ruined parts of newcastle was the idea of segregation- create layers of traffic, service and pedestrian access. Pedestrianisation is essentially the same thing- but advocates the total removement of vehicles.

If your looking for an antithesis of the 60s planning diabolic- look at shared surfaces. Roads without kerbs, high quality paving, wide crossings, greeney. No traffic lights, no barriers, just open, but populated space. And dont worry about getting knocked over, cars will drive slower if they have to share their space with human beings. Its the segregation and barriers etc that gives the driver the false sense of security to drive fast and collide with a person crossing.

Thankfully the central station seems to agree with me. Its only a shame that i think the actual proposals seem a little crass in their execution. But the idea is spot on.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Opinion View Post
Is it just me, or does it seem like they are planning on making Westgate/Collingwood Street junction into a public space? Infront of the union rooms and the vacant westgate house site seem cleared of road.

As i have posted a few times. Beware of pedestrianisation. It makes for expansive and unecessary space, and cuts off movement. In time, people will look back on overpedestrianisation as much of a mistake as making everything highways.

Previous urban design theorums that ruined parts of newcastle was the idea of segregation- create layers of traffic, service and pedestrian access. Pedestrianisation is essentially the same thing- but advocates the total removement of vehicles.

If your looking for an antithesis of the 60s planning diabolic- look at shared surfaces. Roads without kerbs, high quality paving, wide crossings, greeney. No traffic lights, no barriers, just open, but populated space. And dont worry about getting knocked over, cars will drive slower if they have to share their space with human beings. Its the segregation and barriers etc that gives the driver the false sense of security to drive fast and collide with a person crossing.

Thankfully the central station seems to agree with me. Its only a shame that i think the actual proposals seem a little crass in their execution. But the idea is spot on.
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Last edited by Newcastle Historian; May 4th, 2013 at 12:45 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #157
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Well most redeveloped stations without a portico have a nice little glass shelter at the taxi rank (Kings Cross too). I wonder if NCC would think of anything so modern has a jumped-up bus shelter...doubtful. Brollies?
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Old May 4th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Opinion View Post
Is it just me, or does it seem like they are planning on making Westgate/Collingwood Street junction into a public space? Infront of the union rooms and the vacant westgate house site seem cleared of road.

As i have posted a few times. Beware of pedestrianisation. It makes for expansive and unecessary space, and cuts off movement. In time, people will look back on overpedestrianisation as much of a mistake as making everything highways.

Previous urban design theorums that ruined parts of newcastle was the idea of segregation- create layers of traffic, service and pedestrian access. Pedestrianisation is essentially the same thing- but advocates the total removement of vehicles.

If your looking for an antithesis of the 60s planning diabolic- look at shared surfaces. Roads without kerbs, high quality paving, wide crossings, greeney. No traffic lights, no barriers, just open, but populated space. And dont worry about getting knocked over, cars will drive slower if they have to share their space with human beings. Its the segregation and barriers etc that gives the driver the false sense of security to drive fast and collide with a person crossing.

Thankfully the central station seems to agree with me. Its only a shame that i think the actual proposals seem a little crass in their execution. But the idea is spot on.
Well I like the idea of a 'plaza' outside of The Union Rooms as for one thing it will allow for folk to wander up and enjoy the spectacle that is Stephenson's Monument without having to deal with passing traffic (at least from the north side).
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Old May 4th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #159
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I hope the Stephenson Monument will have some protection.

Wonder if there is any thought on a Pocket Park with seating there to add some greenery into town?

Would hate to see it as just a Wetherspoons beer garden.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #160
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If you're driving from the east, say swan house, I can see how you would get to the drop-off area via bewick street, but how would you get back?
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