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Old August 24th, 2019, 12:02 PM   #41
Dhuks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlion View Post
Can see why many here feel sh10billion is too expensive for this. Thika road is about 40miles ? The cost was about 50Blillio with all the bridges, underpasses, very expensive land acquisition e.t.c. Yes, we can add inflation but it still makes this bridge too expensive. If the Japs are lending most of the cash, the inflated costs and interest makes it even more expensive unless the overpass shall be gold-plated IMO.
Thika roadcost around 28 billion adjusted for inflation to around 33 billion. Hii ya hapa ni ukora tu in the same way that footbridges are being assembled in China
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Old August 24th, 2019, 12:39 PM   #42
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If Thika road was only sh28 billion, sh.10 billion for this overpass sounds like something coming from someone whose head should be examined. Then again, this is Kenya. Kenya is a very expensive place compared to anywhere else in the world . It happens to be the place where some wheelbarrows ware costing more than sh.100,000 each in one of the Counties only a while back ?. Well,I suppose those came with antilock braking systems and intelligent air suspension systems .
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Old August 24th, 2019, 01:03 PM   #43
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Well we cannot conclusively say if the overpass is worth the Kshs 10B because we are not experts and do not know all the exact details and cost implications and do not have the bill of quantities.However it feels like the money could be better spent on on other roads as mentioned here to get better value for the money
You are right on your first point. It's better to make judgement if the proposed figure is too much without evening having all the details. For instance we have a clue the project also involves constructing a new wakulima market and moving traders to the new one. There could also be link roads to connect to this new overpass.

On the second point, someone can feel that this money can used for another project however consider that this overpass is part of a wider project that JICA is involved in creating missing links to the CBD to a new future CBD node.The new node "Green mall project" is where the current Railway yards are located and this overpass is vital component for that whole project. JICA is only funding projects on programs that they are involved in and this program for supporting Nairobi country is a long term one. Its not like guys at KURA decided that they need this overpass, decided how much it would cost and approached JICA to fund it. JICA funded study on improving the city and JICA experts saw that this overpass is one of the missing links that is needed and they agreed to fund it as part of the whole project.

Last edited by sleekpiano; August 24th, 2019 at 01:08 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2019, 02:59 PM   #44
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wakulima market? I thought an alternative market is being built along Kangundo road and all those traders will be moved there.
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Old August 24th, 2019, 07:18 PM   #45
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The high price is because its Japanese funded, just compare the costs of the two phases of Ngong road currently under construction.
These tenders are not completely open, only Japanese consultants and construction companies bid
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Old August 25th, 2019, 11:50 AM   #46
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@sleekpiano I agree with you with what Japan through JICA are doing in identifying missing links and funding them.They are doing a good job on that.Those missing links are necessary and really helping.Is this a loan or grant?I believe it is a loan but what if it was a grant would they give that much?The land to where wakulima market is to be moved belongs to Railway Pension Scheme and is to be purchased from them which I think could be one of the reasons for the high cost

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Old August 25th, 2019, 01:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlion View Post
Can see why many here feel sh10billion is too expensive for this. Thika road is about 40miles ? The cost was about 50Blillio with all the bridges, underpasses, very expensive land acquisition e.t.c. Yes, we can add inflation but it still makes this bridge too expensive. If the Japs are lending most of the cash, the inflated costs and interest makes it even more expensive unless the overpass shall be gold-plated IMO.
All those numbers are off for Thika Road...

Nonetheless, Outer Ring Road has 2x2 lanes overpass that span almost or over a KM + another 2X2 Service lanes overpass that span appx 500 meters... These overpasses are part of the 9Bn ,13 KMs project that is yet to be completed..

How can a 2x2, 700 meters be that expensive.. I dont think there are any add-ons that can make the price differential that high... the price can never be justified...
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Old August 25th, 2019, 07:21 PM   #48
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From the artist's render , it does not seem like this is 700m only. The longest span is 700m and people have taken that to be the length of the project, considering our media isnt really a pinnacle of reporting accuracy.
Thika road ended up being around 45b, shilling was 75 to the dollar and oil per barrel was $30, land was way cheaper then and of course inflation. So considering these factors, how much would have Thika road cost today? 60b?
The render shows that the overpass will start from Moi avenue, turn over railways goes down to wakulima, crossing Railway yard (only this part seems like the 700m by itself) using a suspension bridge? , then continues over enterprise abit. Also there is a leg originating from wakulima to join the overpass , so thats maybe 2-3km total 4 lane road length in the middle of CBD? sh10b is alot but might actually be the cost when we truly know the scope of works.

Last edited by osaedu; August 25th, 2019 at 07:28 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 10:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by osaedu View Post
From the artist's render , it does not seem like this is 700m only. The longest span is 700m and people have taken that to be the length of the project, considering our media isnt really a pinnacle of reporting accuracy.
Thika road ended up being around 45b, shilling was 75 to the dollar and oil per barrel was $30, land was way cheaper then and of course inflation. So considering these factors, how much would have Thika road cost today? 60b?
The render shows that the overpass will start from Moi avenue, turn over railways goes down to wakulima, crossing Railway yard (only this part seems like the 700m by itself) using a suspension bridge? , then continues over enterprise abit. Also there is a leg originating from wakulima to join the overpass , so thats maybe 2-3km total 4 lane road length in the middle of CBD? sh10b is alot but might actually be the cost when we truly know the scope of works.

Your numbers are definately off...

The total cost of the project was Ksh 32 billion (US$360 million). Please consult the archive because it's available... Budget was 28B, but ended up going higher by 4Bn...
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Old August 25th, 2019, 11:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mami-wota View Post
Your numbers are definately off...

The total cost of the project was Ksh 32 billion (US$360 million). Please consult the archive because it's available... Budget was 28B, but ended up going higher by 4Bn...
Overall point doesn't change, ksh32b 10yrs ago isnt the same as 32b now
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Old August 25th, 2019, 11:46 PM   #51
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It seems then it is not just an overpass but the viaduct is the 700m long section of this missing link.I have not had a chance to open the pdf document since I have been using just my phone.That newspaper article is misleading and so is the title of the thread.The economic benefits of this missing link will be more than Kshs 10B in the long run if it solves the problems it is intended to solve in the short,medium and long run including savings in fuel costs,savings on fares through transport costs,increase in economic activity in the city due to time saved moving through the city and more investments and so on.In the end the loan should repay for itself if the cost benefit analysis holds

Last edited by Kijanamwafrika; August 26th, 2019 at 12:24 AM.
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Old September 3rd, 2019, 04:02 PM   #52
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You need to see the Railway overpass in conjunction with Railway city and the various BRT lines. Check the interim report for the railway city to see that it involves a lot other concepts. It is not simply an overpass
https://www.kpda.or.ke/documents/Ind...m%20Report.pdf
Thank you for this. Wish it can be done. This Railway City master plan should be a top priority for CS Trade, CS Transport and State House. It has the ability to revive "Town" be the transport hub of Nairobi city and create 1000's of jobs in it various sectors. Light manufacturing, commercial, residential etc. However I still don't know how this justifies that over priced overpass. That said I wonder why this is not been given out to investors on PPP. Prime real estate development that connects the whole city.
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