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Old October 15th, 2019, 05:25 PM   #11001
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The A72 section is now announced to be opened northbound on 15 October. Source. There is no info why it is delayed (German transparency!) but media is reporting that there is a delay of two weeks - they don't write that it's "on schedule"
October 16 now.


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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
B75: AS Hamburg-Georgswerder – AS Hamburg-Wilhelmsburg-South (A26) 4.8km (October 2016 to 7th October 2019) [rededication of A252/A253: 6.0km]projectmap
It was inaugurated on October 6 and it was planned to be opened for traffic on October 7 at 5 AM. However, it was already opened on October 6 at 3:30PM.


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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
B10: west of AS Neu-Ulm-Finningen – east of AS Nersingen (A7) 5.5km (May 2018 to Early 2023) [2nd c/w] – projectmap
It should be opened in late 2022. Source.
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Old October 16th, 2019, 04:29 PM   #11002
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A72: AS Borna-North – AS Rötha 8.5km (July 2013 to 16th October 2019) [direction Leipzig]projectmap
It was opened at 9:09AM today. The site manager of the construction company said that the opening is almost one year ahead of schedule (it was planned to be opened in September 2020). Source. There was no official statement in the press releases about the groundbreaking ceremony in July 2013 but the news articles quoted officials with 'opening in 2017'.


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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
B10: AS Hinterweidenthal – east of Hinterweidenthal 1.3km (September 2013 to Late 2019) – projectmap
There is a bridge over the railway which was planned to be used for the expressway but was later decided to be replaced by a new bridge. The old one was already demolished in early 2019 and the tender for construction of the new bridge was published in late September. The construction period is 16 months. That means, the section might be opened in 2022.

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B15n: AS Ergoldsbach – AS Essenbach (A92) 9.0km (August 2013 to Late 2019) – projectmap
To be opened in late November or early December (with a temporary connection to A92 only. Source.


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B30: AS Ravensburg-South – AS Karrer 3.4km (July 2013 to Late 2019) – projectmap
To be opened "in 6 weeks at the earliest". Source with paywall. That means, late November / early December.

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
B47: AS Worms-West – AS Worms-Horchheimer Straße 1.1km (August 2016 to Late 2019) – projectmap
There are some press releases and all indicate that it should be opened by the end of the year when there is no bad weather.
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Old October 19th, 2019, 02:06 PM   #11003
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
21 November 2019 will be the date for the official inauguration of the Hochmoselbrücke (High Mosel Bridge) of B50 east of Wittlich.
From September 30:


From July:
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Old October 20th, 2019, 10:25 AM   #11004
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General speed limit for all Autobahns?

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Quote:
Church advocates speed limit on highways.

The Evangelical Church in Central Germany (EKM) wants to enforce a speed limit of 130 kilometers per hour on motorways with a petition.
https://www.evangelisch.de/inhalte/1...auf-autobahnen

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
From today: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...strikt-ab.html

Federal Ministry of Transport, Mr. Scheuer: "Gegen jeden Menschenverstand" - "preposterous to common sense"

The speed limit was recently suggested by a commission of the Federal government.
Requests for a general speed limit on Autobahns appear every now and then. The Greens of the Bundestag have officially requested that a speed limit of 130km/h should be introduced from 1st January 2020. Source. They refer to "Vision Zero" and state that there is really an example (62km long section of A24 north-west of Berlin) where the number of accidents, fatalities and injured is really lower since the speed limit of 130km/h was introduced in 2002. They end with "Voraussetzung für die Wirksamkeit des Tempolimits ist eine konsequente Geschwindigkeitskontrolle." (precondition for the effectiveness of the speed limit is a forceful speed control).

The request was discussed in the traffic commission of the Bundestag in September:
- CDU and CSU party (conservative, ruling party of Merkel) said that the relation of pros and cons is bad. Minimum 30% of the Autobahns are already limited and most noise emissions are from truck which are only allowed to drive 80km/h. The speed limit would reduce the CO2 emissions by only 1 million tons per year.
- SPD party (socialists) is in favor for a speed limit but could not convince their coalition partner (CDU/CSU). They say that the gas consumption is 35% higher for cars driving 160km/h compared to 130km/h. The number of fatilities was lower by 26% on limited Autobahn sections compared to unlimited sections in 2016. The speed limit would reduce the CO2 emissions by 1.2 million tons per year.
- AfD party ("populists", "right") agrees with CDU/CSU. 95% of all accidents happen at a speed lower than 100km/h. Only 72% of fatilites die on the 77% unlimited Autobahn sections, that means, the unlimited sections are safer - but that's caused by constructional conditions. Widening Autobahns is the best way to reduce congestions. CO2 emissions can be reduced by synthetic additives.
- FDP party (liberals) agree that the relation of pros and cons is bad. Especially when you compare it to global emissions. Rural roads have more safety issues. German unlimited Autobahn sections are safer than limited Autobahn sections of some other countries.
- LEFT party ("former communists") want a speed limit of 120km/h. 80km/h for non-urban roads and 30km/h in build-up areas. The speed limits make roads safer and driving will be stress-free. Emissions will be lower. Costs will be lower. We should have a speed limit like in other European countries. The majority of the population wants the speed limit*
- Greens refer to the A24 situation, that the stopping distance from 200km/h is 4 times higher than from 100km/h, specify noise emissions, claim that people would buy more E cars when there is a speed limit because their range is higher when you drive 130km/h at maximum.

Only LEFT party and Greens party were in favor of a speed limit. The recommendation of the commission was to reject the request.


The request was discussed in Bundestag on Thursday. The result of the vote was as follows:
498 are against the request
126 are in favor for the request
7 abstentions

The request was rejected.

*That's true. 53% are in favor of a speed limit of 130km/h on Autobahns. 45% against. Source.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 11:10 AM   #11005
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Among motorists, the percentage that is in favor of a 130 km/h speed limit is likely much lower. You can see this when driving 130 km/h on an unlimited stretch in free-flowing conditions. You will likely be among the slowest cars on the road, most people like to go faster if conditions allow it.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 11:58 AM   #11006
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From September 30:

What about the section from Frankfurt Hahn airport to the junction of Kommen? When will this part of B50 be doubled?
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Old October 20th, 2019, 12:13 PM   #11007
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What about the section from Frankfurt Hahn airport to the junction of Kommen? When will this part of B50 be doubled?
The section to be opened next month is an exception. It has a length of 20km! The remaining 2-laned gap is just 15km but split into 3 sections! The plan approval procedure for the first (longest) section in the middle was started in September. It's from north of the B327 junction at Hinzerath to Hirschfeld and has a length of 7.1km and it's planned to be a grade-separated 4-laned expressway. Both other sections are in "detailed planning stage" (Vorentwurfsplanung).

Some minor improvements at the junctions were implemented this summer.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 12:23 PM   #11008
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I like this word Vorentwurfsplanung .

By the way, you showed a map a of the old good West Germany... there was a motorway running from Basel to Salzburg in parallel to the border with Switzerland and Austria. Have you any idea what happened to this motorway?
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Old October 20th, 2019, 12:44 PM   #11009
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I like this word Vorentwurfsplanung .
And the previous stage is called Vorplanung

The Entwurfsplanung is what we know as design phase in D&B contracts. It's also called Bauausführungsplanung.


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Originally Posted by roaddor View Post
By the way, you showed a map a of the old good West Germany... there was a motorway running from Basel to Salzburg in parallel to the border with Switzerland and Austria. Have you any idea what happened to this motorway?
It was planned to build A98 from A5 to A8. The western part is in service (OSM) and it's planned to be extended to be completed from A5 to the existing 2-laned A98 section at Waldshut (OSM). It's planned to build the 1st carriageway first. A section is already in service, another one u/c. The sections in-between are a never-ending story but the planning progress seems to get better now.

It was discussed to build the extension through Switzerland at Schaffhausen but talks have been stopped long ago.

East of A81 is another A98 section in service, the 2+1-extension is called B31n (OSM). The "Bodenseeautobahn" is still planned and partially u/c. It will be a 2x2 expressway but much closer to the lake now. Close to existing B31. But only from Überlingen (end of 2+1 section) to Friedrichshafen where the future B30 2x2 expressway to Ulm will end (OSM). Baden-Württemberg has not submitted their section east of Friedrichshafen for the demand plan 2030 but Bavaria did (OSM). 2x2 expressway. The section Friedrichshafen - Lindau was planned to be upgraded to 2+1 first but not much happened in the last decade. Just announcements...

Everything east of Lindau (A96) was stopped in 1970s/80s. A980 was meant to be part of it (OSM). It was planned to have an interchange with A8 at Holzkirchen south of Munich (OSM).
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Old October 20th, 2019, 01:36 PM   #11010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
And the previous stage is called Vorplanung

The Entwurfsplanung is what we know as design phase in D&B contracts. It's also called Bauausführungsplanung.
Entwurfsaplanung is different von Bauausführungsplanung.
Every construction project has the following phases in Germany, according to HOAI:
1)Grundlagenermittlung - the main aspects are clarified - like what you want to build, is it possible to build? etc.
2)Vorplanung or Vorentwurf - the actual start of planning, you establish the exact route and design the main components
3)Entwurfplanung - you go more in detail, but still don't design until the last mm
4)Genehmigungsplanung - you show your plans to the state institutions (Planfestellungsverfahren) - and correct the plans according to the objections
5)Ausführungsplanung - you design every component till the last detail - on the base of these plans the construction companies can build the project
6)Preparing of the tender documentation
7)Tender
8)Construction
9)Maintenance
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:14 PM   #11011
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Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
Entwurfsaplanung is different von Bauausführungsplanung.
Every construction project has the following phases in Germany, according to HOAI:
You really believe that there is one wording standard for Germany?

I thought the same but following all the statements over more than one decade now...

Some states explain their steps for road construction:

NRW has 5 steps:
1. Bedarfspläne (demand plan)
2. Linienfindung (including "Vorplanung", it's variant study, EIA etc.)
3. Entwurfsplanung (it's the detailed planning)
4. Planfeststellungsverfahren (plan approval procedure)
5. Ausführungsplanung / Bau (design planning and construction)

Lower Saxony calls it:
1. Bedarfsplanung
2. Vorplanung
3. Entwurfsplanung
4. Genehmigungsplanung (Planfeststellungsverfahren)
5. Ausführungsplanung, Vergabe und Bau (design planning, tender and construction)

Hesse calls the steps:
2. Voruntersuchung (preliminary investigation)
3. Vorentwurf
4. Baurechtsverfahren
5. Ausführungsplanung und Straßenbau

wikipedia is very close to Lower Saxony.

But yes, my claim about "Entwurfsplanung" is wrong. Sorry.


The Federal Ministry of Transport asks the states to submit projects for step 1 and the ministry also makes the priorization. They also have to approve the planning after step 2. The most important step is no. 3 and I call it "Vorentwurfsplanung" (preliminary planning) because that's used by most road authorities. The planning documents are approved by the Federal Ministry of Transport and some other authorities like Bundesrechnungshof (German Federal Court of Auditors, they are focused on the project costs). The most public step is no. 4. The plan approval procedure. Here, other authorities and the public can submit their concerns and at the end, the building permit is passed. The plan approval order can be challenged at court. The Federal Ministry of Transport does not approve this step but if anything major is changed - during the procedure or because of court decision -, we are back in step 3 and they must approve the changes. Then, we have a plan approval supplement procedure (Planfeststellungsergänzungsverfahren). It's a repetition of step 4 but usually just a partial repetition. When the design phase of step 5 is done, the Federal Ministry of Transport must approve the costs again. Afterwards, the tender procedure can begin.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:22 PM   #11012
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You forgot to mention that stages 1-4 ....pre tender...take 20 years nowadays
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:27 PM   #11013
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sure, construction tender is part of step 5 (design planning + tender + construction). That step 1-4 take 20 years is right. Maybe even kind of optimistic! Some minor bypasses of villages or Autobahn widenings are a little bit quicker.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:29 PM   #11014
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You forgot to mention that stages 1-4 ....pre tender...take 20 years nowadays
Yes, but for most of the more important projects some steps are already done, so if the budget and the will is there, they can start these projects much faster. But yes, for a totally new project it will take probably more than 20 years, unless it's a reconstruction of a major piece of infrastructure that has to be replaced (like the Rhine bridges).
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:32 PM   #11015
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Yes, but for most of the more important projects some steps are already done
What do you mean? I think that all planning works are done in stage 1-4.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:36 PM   #11016
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
And the previous stage is called Vorplanung

The Entwurfsplanung is what we know as design phase in D&B contracts. It's also called Bauausführungsplanung.
Yeah, I know. I mentioned it because some German colleagues make fun of my German . Difficult to pronounce when I get tired.

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It was planned to build A98 from A5 to A8. The western part is in service (OSM) and it's planned to be extended to be completed from A5 to the existing 2-laned A98 section at Waldshut (OSM). It's planned to build the 1st carriageway first. A section is already in service, another one u/c. The sections in-between are a never-ending story but the planning progress seems to get better now.

It was discussed to build the extension through Switzerland at Schaffhausen but talks have been stopped long ago.

East of A81 is another A98 section in service, the 2+1-extension is called B31n (OSM). The "Bodenseeautobahn" is still planned and partially u/c. It will be a 2x2 expressway but much closer to the lake now. Close to existing B31. But only from Überlingen (end of 2+1 section) to Friedrichshafen where the future B30 2x2 expressway to Ulm will end (OSM). Baden-Württemberg has not submitted their section east of Friedrichshafen for the demand plan 2030 but Bavaria did (OSM). 2x2 expressway. The section Friedrichshafen - Lindau was planned to be upgraded to 2+1 first but not much happened in the last decade. Just announcements...

Everything east of Lindau (A96) was stopped in 1970s/80s. A980 was meant to be part of it (OSM). It was planned to have an interchange with A8 at Holzkirchen south of Munich (OSM).
Hope the Swiss do not require a referendum for the part via Schaffhausen . There will be international traffic Vienna-Lyon for sure, then directly to Toulouse and why not crossing the Pyrenees to Zaragosa in Spain. Also other international destinations will be covered along this route A98. As well as local traffic of course north of the Rhein and the Alps.
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Old October 20th, 2019, 02:59 PM   #11017
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Originally Posted by roaddor View Post
Hope the Swiss do not require a referendum for the part via Schaffhausen . There will be international traffic Vienna-Lyon for sure, then directly to Toulouse and why not crossing the Pyrenees to Zaragosa in Spain. Also other international destinations will be covered along this route A98. As well as local traffic of course north of the Rhein and the Alps.
I hope that when A98 will be completed up to Waldshut - the problem is the exact route, closer to build-up areas or more into the mountains but the first carriageway might be completed by 2035/40 - that it might relieve the Swiss A3 when there would be a good Rhine crossing north of Zürich. And the Swiss A50/A51 already ends not far away from the German border.

Germany might build a motorway - or minimum a 2+1 express road - from Waldshut (Lauchringen) to Glattfelden (OSM) on its soil and Switzerland might complete their A51 from Glattfelden to Bülach and extend A50 to Winterthur and/or Andelfingen to meet A1 and/or A4 (OSM).

There would be two continouos motorway / expressway corridors between Swiss A4 and German A96:
1. A4.ch - A81.de - A98.de - B31n.de (the planned "Bodenseeautobahn)
2. A1.ch - S18.at (planned) - A12.at

So, I'd bypass Schaffhausen itself with new construction. But sure, I'd bring more traffic to Schaffhausen except when A50 will be led to Swiss A1 and transit would pass Lake Constance on the south - thorugh Switzerland (and Austria).
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Old October 20th, 2019, 09:42 PM   #11018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
What do you mean? I think that all planning works are done in stage 1-4.
I wanted to say that the most needed projects are in one of these phases, at least Phase 1 is done, and most of them are stuck in phases 3 or 4.

No, not all planning is done in stages 1-4, the most important planning phase is actually Ausführungsplanung (Detailed planning), that's the phase where you plan everything into the necessary detail to be able to build.

btw, a good short movie (in German) about the planning phases in Germany, it's from Deutsche Bahn, but it applies also for roads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmYIM9aD1_c
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Old October 21st, 2019, 04:40 PM   #11019
MichiH
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Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
I wanted to say that the most needed projects are in one of these phases, at least Phase 1 is done, and most of them are stuck in phases 3 or 4.
But every project must start. Sure, most projects we talk about on this thread are already in stage 3, 4 or 5.

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No, not all planning is done in stages 1-4, the most important planning phase is actually Ausführungsplanung (Detailed planning), that's the phase where you plan everything into the necessary detail to be able to build.
yes, sorry. I meant all planning which is relevant for the building permits, the plan approval order.

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Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
btw, a good short movie (in German) about the planning phases in Germany, it's from Deutsche Bahn, but it applies also for roads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmYIM9aD1_c
hmmm, they claim that "Baurecht" (building permit) requires the funding agreement. I don't know about railway but for roads the steps after the plan approval procedure are as follows:

When there is no court action against the "Plan approval order" (Planfeststellungsbeschluss) you automatically have "Buidling permits" (Baurecht). Then, the Federal Ministry of Transport releases funds (Baufreigabe). The design phase can begin (Bauausführungsplanung). It's done by the road authority by external engineers (with tender procedure). Afterwards, the construction tender procedure can be started.

A video from Straßen.NRW shows all planning steps for a B road town bypass from 1 to 5 in a nice video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJqJBIC7MUw
I just don't agree that the "Gesehen-Vermerk" - the approval for step 3 - is "usually done quick because the authorities work close together". That's not true, it usually takes about one year on average!
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Old October 21st, 2019, 09:46 PM   #11020
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Quite impressive bridge building in Bayern.

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