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Old November 15th, 2011, 07:00 AM   #61
will101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
The Cowboys didn't need a new stadium either. Jerry just wanted it to keep the revenues. Probably a similar situation.
But Jerruh paid most of the bills on that one. The Falcons are just trying to rip off the taxpayers.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 10:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Open-air fan experience vs crappy indoor dome;
A retractable roof would take care of that for a lot less than the cost of a new stadium...

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and oh, btw: SUPER BOWL. Atl basically got told that there will be no Super Bowls coming to the Georgia Dome anytime soon. But build a spanking new fantastic outdoor field, and it's party time!
So an event that brings in maybe $100-200M every 5-10 years is worth an $800M stadium?
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Old November 15th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #63
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K... so take the roof off of it...

And wouldn't that it hurt your chances for getting the Superbowl? Atlanta does have a bit of a winter last time I checked.

Besides the dome, whats crappy about it? On top of what I already said, its right downtown next to a metro stop... Not the prettiest thing in the world outside, but 'we don't have a pretty stadium' is a poor excuse for throwing down $700mil on a new stadium.

I can understand SF, Oakland, SD, Minnesota etc. need for new digs, but the situations with Saint Louis and Atlanta are just crazy to me. Espcially considering what stadium deals can do to local governments if they're not careful. Ask Cincy (or better yet a Cincy school teacher) how the fancy pants Bengals and Reds stadiums are working out for them.
Alright, I feel I have a little credibility on this one, since I grew up an hour north of Atlanta and have been to a dozen or so Falcons, SEC Title Games, Peach Bowls and the Olympics and have sat in every different section in the dome.

For all intents and purposes, the dome does not need to be replaced. It is easy to get to, has plenty of parking for tailgating and is close to public tranportation. The sightlines are great, the seats are new (and comfortable), the interior looks remarkably better than the original interior, the atmosphere is great (and loud) and the ammenities are as good if not better than every other NFL stadium I have been too. The only criticism I can think of is that the individual suites are a little small, but I only include that because we all know the experience of the high dollar fans counts a lot more than us regular folk. I only sat in the suites once and was perfectly happy with it myself.

The reason Atlanta hasn't gotten a Super Bowl recently is because of the ice storm that hit during the last one. It did nothing to affect the game itself, but everything else was a mess. This wasn't a rare occurance either. That happens pretty regularly in North Georgia. With the exception of Denver, I beleive Atlanta is the city with the highest elevation in the NFL. An outdoor stadium will only make the entire Super Bowl experience worse. On top of that, the city is scorching hot Aug-Oct, or half the season. When my dad used to take me to games at Fulton County Stadium, it bordered on unbareable if your seats weren't in the shade.

From what I have been told by people who still live there and follow this more closely than I do, the driving force behind this move is for Author Blank to get away from the crummy lease the Falcons have with the Dome owner, the Georgia World Congress Center. I have heard he wasn't happy with club level renovations from a few years ago, based on the limitations due to the existing framing, but I really don't see what is wrong with it.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 04:46 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Open-air fan experience vs crappy indoor dome; and oh, btw: SUPER BOWL. Atl basically got told that there will be no Super Bowls coming to the Georgia Dome anytime soon. But build a spanking new fantastic outdoor field, and it's party time!
The Super Bowl is a Red Herring in this instance, though, because the last time Atlanta lost out on the event it was because of reservations about... the weather! Ever since the Titans and Rams had to take turns practicing in an ice storm Atlanta was moved down a tier in the Super Bowl pecking order.

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K... so take the roof off of it...
Engineers have determined the dome would be incapable of handling the runoff issues because there is no graceful way to incorporate decent drainage into the seating areas (which obviously don't need such under a roof.) Plus, as Topher said Mr. Blank hates the lease and thinks they won't get anything like he wants with this venue, since it's so critical to the GWCC for other events.

Quote:
Besides the dome, whats crappy about it? On top of what I already said, its right downtown next to a metro stop... Not the prettiest thing in the world outside, but 'we don't have a pretty stadium' is a poor excuse for throwing down $700mil on a new stadium.
Nothing's crappy about it, but the Falcons are convinced the costs for renovations without adding the outdoor game experience wouldn't yield the desired returns. They fear average fans will grow tired of the dome in the near-term, and the other elements will wear out soon, so paying $300M just to upgrade premium seating conditions to match the 21st century norm isn't viable to them. It's myopic in my view, but to people in the development industry land is almost as disposable as home computers. Due to tax laws all they need to do is secure the financing and their investment is all but secure, leaving the banks to take any risk or hit. Or also, in this case, the taxpayers.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #65
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But Jerruh paid most of the bills on that one. The Falcons are just trying to rip off the taxpayers.
Taxpayers paid about $375 million on Cowboys Stadium. Jerry paid more so he could get the NFL allowed revenues. If the Falcons owners aren't majority owners or owners at all of the Georgia Dome, they are probably missing 90% of the revenues that some of the other owners are making. This is why the whole, is the US done with new stadiums thing is a lot premature. A lot of stadiums that aren't making the owners as much money as they could. Even fairly new ones that were built to get NFL revenue, but don't have the right ownership deal in place.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 11:27 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
Taxpayers paid about $375 million on Cowboys Stadium. Jerry paid more so he could get the NFL allowed revenues. If the Falcons owners aren't majority owners or owners at all of the Georgia Dome, they are probably missing 90% of the revenues that some of the other owners are making. This is why the whole, is the US done with new stadiums thing is a lot premature. A lot of stadiums that aren't making the owners as much money as they could. Even fairly new ones that were built to get NFL revenue, but don't have the right ownership deal in place.
That's fine, as long as Blank is writing the checks. And $375 million means that Jerruh paid about 75% of the cost. Still too much burden for the taxpayers, but better than many places here.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 09:17 PM   #67
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Just want to say that Turner Field was named after Ted Turner, it's not sponsored by him (as someone earlier stated).
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Old November 17th, 2011, 08:20 AM   #68
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This sucks.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #69
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This sucks.
Agreed. However, losing the Falcons as a tennant isn't the end of the world. The Georgia Dome is still a great venue and I doubt the Peach Bowl (as it shall ever be called in my mind) or the SEC title game will move outdoors in the winter. They play a neutral site SEC game there every season now and the GWCC uses it pretty regularly too. I think Georgia State just started playing their home games their also. I don't see any of that leaving.

Some of those events might not sell out, but the dome won't sit unused. Besides, unless the Falcons are elite (which they rarely are), they don't even sell out the dome.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 02:54 AM   #70
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Agreed. However, losing the Falcons as a tennant isn't the end of the world. The Georgia Dome is still a great venue and I doubt the Peach Bowl (as it shall ever be called in my mind) or the SEC title game will move outdoors in the winter. They play a neutral site SEC game there every season now and the GWCC uses it pretty regularly too. I think Georgia State just started playing their home games their also. I don't see any of that leaving.

Some of those events might not sell out, but the dome won't sit unused. Besides, unless the Falcons are elite (which they rarely are), they don't even sell out the dome.
Agree the dome won't go un-used. GWCC will lose ~10 events from their 100+ event schedule.

SEC title game is POSSIBLY tilting away from Atlanta with the aTm and Mizzou additions. I don't see where they'd play unless they go to the total opposite end of the conference and use Jerry World. Are ~30k more seats worth leaving Atlanta and much of the SEC's history with the city for the western bounds of the conference?

It isn't an SEC game every year. They just want a couple teams of local interest to kick off the season (likely an SEC or ACC team will be one of the 2 every year). Pretty sure they're adding a 2nd game too.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 04:34 AM   #71
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SEC title game is POSSIBLY tilting away from Atlanta with the aTm and Mizzou additions. I don't see where they'd play unless they go to the total opposite end of the conference and use Jerry World. Are ~30k more seats worth leaving Atlanta and much of the SEC's history with the city for the western bounds of the conference?
The only place I could ever see it moving to is New Orleans, but I doubt it.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 06:14 AM   #72
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The only place I could ever see it moving to is New Orleans, but I doubt it.
The SEC has said they would stay in the Georgia Dome, regardless of whether the Falcons build a new stadium.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 05:42 PM   #73
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It'd be beyond foolish for the SEC to move the game. A domed NFL-stadium centrally located in the conference footprint, with a travel friendly situation hotel- and airport-wise, in a city that LOVES college football. And oh by the way, the College Football Hall of Fame is moving from South Bend to Atlanta in 2013. Plus, playing the CG in the Superdome or Jerry World might mean 1 of the CG participants could be repeat visitors for the respective SEC bowl game, which nobody wants.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 09:14 PM   #74
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The Cowboys didn't need a new stadium either. Jerry just wanted it to keep the revenues. Probably a similar situation.
What? I loved Texas Stadium but it was old, falling apart, out dated, no room for improvement.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #75
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I hope the new stadium, if it happens, lands Atlanta the 150th anniversary of the Olympics!!
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Old November 21st, 2011, 01:14 AM   #76
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Much as I would love to see the games return to show off how well the city responded to critics from the '96 games, I don't think Atlanta would satisfy the IOC's requests regarding an Athletics stadium. Plus Atlanta likely shouldn't bid again until the IOC wises up and drops some of their events. IMHO, anyway.
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Old November 21st, 2011, 02:39 AM   #77
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I hope the new stadium, if it happens, lands Atlanta the 150th anniversary of the Olympics!!
2046 Winter Olympics in Atlanta?
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Old November 21st, 2011, 07:42 AM   #78
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Forget it, Atlanta is good for eternity without another Olympics. A second Olympics is the last thing Atlanta needs.
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Old November 21st, 2011, 08:01 PM   #79
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Not to dis Atlanta, but the Olympics have grown out of Atlantas size.
The IOC are only after new markets or really big cities nowadays.
In the US, I can only see NYC, LA, Miami, Chicago getting it.

Sadly. They're just to damn greedy. :/
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Old November 21st, 2011, 08:32 PM   #80
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I hope the new stadium, if it happens, lands Atlanta the 150th anniversary of the Olympics!!
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

I remember during the closing ceremonies, there was a big to-do made about the president of the IOC not saying the games were "the best games yet" or something like that. Apparently that had been done at every Olympics before and every Olympics since. The IOC was very uphappy with the Atlanta games overall and would never give them another shot. Especially since many world class cities have yet to host a second games.
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