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Old March 27th, 2009, 03:42 PM   #41
bigbossman
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the championship wasn't higher than 2. bundesliga last season. 2. bundesliga lost gladbach and koln and gained badly supported teams. The champ lost and gained equally supported teams.

i hate the fact that they use mean as the average rather than median. There is a reason they don't use mean in determining average house prices, as one figure distorts the rest and inflates/deflates the final figure. the best and most accurate is the median.

The championship though had a higher median in both years, the 2. bundesliga has a lot of poorly supported teams in comparison, but also a lot of extremely well supported teams, where is the champ has a pack of teams all close together.

Quote:
Coca Cola Championship is indeed very well supported. 4th highest in Europe.
Average is all that counts, total supporters includes multi counting people, and as leagues play different schedules it distorts facts, so it is totally dumb to call it the fourth highest in europe as it is totally inaccurate.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #42
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ok, the median (i hope i am right) for the championship is 17,218 (12th Coventry 17,622 and 13th Bristol 16,813). For the 2. Bundesliga it is 14,052 (9th Duisburg 14,203 and 10th Osnabrück 13,900).

Last season the 2. Bundesliga averaged at 18,142 due to the big teams as bigbossman already mentioned (1. FC Köln averaged at 43,763; median for the whole league: 15,580).
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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by miguelon View Post
im impressed with the Bundesliga,,,, maybe the most attended european league. am i right? Because a lot of English Premier League teams have small capacities ( in the 30 - 40 range)
The Premiership used to have the highest attendances but it was overtaken by the Bundesliga four or five years ago. There are a few reasons for the Bundesliga's bigger attendances:

1. Since winning the right to host World Cup 2006, there has been a huge stadium building boom in Germany. The average Bundesliga capacity is far higher than the Premiership. This may change over the next ten years or so as the likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Everton, and maybe the likes of West Ham and Chelsea all move to new stadiums. If England wins the right to host World Cup 2018 or 2022, then expect further capacity increases at a number of other stadiums.

2. Ticket prices for Bundesliga games are far, far cheaper than ticket prices for Premiership games. That's one of the reasons why the Premiership is so much richer than the Bundesliga, despite the smaller attendances (and also why the atmosphere is generally worse at Premiership stadiums).

3. Germany's population is 60% bigger than England's and Germany's lower division clubs aren't nearly as well supported as English lower division clubs.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
the championship wasn't higher than 2. bundesliga last season. 2. bundesliga lost gladbach and koln and gained badly supported teams. The champ lost and gained equally supported teams.

i hate the fact that they use mean as the average rather than median. There is a reason they don't use mean in determining average house prices, as one figure distorts the rest and inflates/deflates the final figure. the best and most accurate is the median.

The championship though had a higher median in both years, the 2. bundesliga has a lot of poorly supported teams in comparison, but also a lot of extremely well supported teams, where is the champ has a pack of teams all close together.



Average is all that counts, total supporters includes multi counting people, and as leagues play different schedules it distorts facts, so it is totally dumb to call it the fourth highest in europe as it is totally inaccurate.

Here you go again!

Coca Cola Championship has the 4th highest amount of turnstyles being turned each season. Is that better for you. Yes they play more games but they still turn those turnstyles.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:14 PM   #45
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Some attendances for Spanish 2nd Division:

Zaragoza - 25,500
Levante - 18,000
Real Sociedad - 17,114
Hercules - 15,000
.....................
Alicante - 3,500
Eibar - 1,600
Sevilla Atletico - 800

As you see some big clubs are playing there, but others are extremely small.

This year the attendance in La Liga will go down since teams like Numancia (6,500) entered it.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 06:00 PM   #46
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Englands 2nd tier has only 4 teams out of 24 with capacitys smaller then 20,000. These are ....

Watford Vicarage Road 19,920
Queens Park Rangers Loftus Road 18,200
Doncaster Rovers Keepmoat Stadium 15,231 (Newly Promoted)
Blackpool Bloomfield Road 9,650 (16,000) (Newly Promoted)


--------------------

Home Club Stadium Name Capacity
Sheffield Wednesday Hillsborough 39,814
Derby County Pride Park Stadium 33,597
Southampton St Mary's Stadium 32,689
Sheffield United Bramall Lane 32,609
Coventry City Ricoh Arena 32,000
Nottingham Forest City Ground 30,602
Ipswich Town Portman Road 30,311
Birmingham City St. Andrew's 30,009
Wolverhampton Wanderers Molineux 28,525
Charlton Athletic The Valley 27,111
Crystal Palace Selhurst Park 26,309
Norwich City Carrow Road 26,034
Reading Madejski Stadium 24,161
Preston North End Deepdale 24,500
Barnsley Oakwell 23,009
Burnley Turf Moor 22,546
Cardiff City Ninian Park* 22,008
Bristol City Ashton Gate 21,497
Plymouth Argyle Home Park 20,922
Swansea City Liberty Stadium 20,532
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Old March 27th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #47
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enough talk, bust out some more pictures of stadiums and attendances!
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Old March 27th, 2009, 06:18 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outcaster View Post
4. Mash'al Muborak
Avg. - 3,842
Highest - 8,165
Capacity - 10,000
Havent seen Rivaldo in a while

As for the Bundesliga: The goal should be to go up by 7-10k on average/game within the next decade. However this might proove difficult if teams like Bremen arent increasing their cap.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by GNU View Post
Havent seen Rivaldo in a while

As for the Bundesliga: The goal should be to go up by 7-10k on average/game within the next decade. However this might proove difficult if teams like Bremen arent increasing their cap.
I guess the Premiership will be looking for something similar - especially if England wins the right to host WC 2018 or 2020.

There'll be an increase of capacity at the following clubs - most of which will be able to fill the vast majority of their new capacity:

Almost certain

Liverpool - 44K to 72K.
Tottenham - 36K to 60K.
Everton - 40K to 55K.
Man City - 48K to 60K

Probable

West Ham - 35K to 50K+
Chelsea - 42K to 60K+
Portsmouth - 20K to 30K+
Man Utd - 76K to 85K+
Aston Villa - 42K to 50K

Possible

Arsenal - 60K to 70K
Newcastle - 52K to 60K
Sunderland - 48K to 60K

That's not to mention the likely improvements and capacity increases at various Championship and lower division stadiums.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 07:07 PM   #50
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Quite impressive.
Unfortunately theres not that much reason for optimism in the Bundesliga.
Leverkusen is currently going up to 30k whilst Bremen chose the worst moment for a stadium renovation and didnt expand to 50k due to high steel prices (which have now come down again).
There are a few smaller clubs who are building new stadiums, but most of the bigger clubs ended up with insufficient caps in their new grounds.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #51
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I will tell you a secret
Why Bundesliga has the biggest attendance in EUROPE?They have everywhere STANDING ROOMS.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 07:45 PM   #52
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Wolves up to 48,000. Big one in the lower leagues that although probably be in the premiership next season.

St james Park, Newcastle.

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Molineux, Wolverhampton

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Swansea City

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Motherwell (Pre season0

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Old Trafford champions league semi-final last year

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Old March 27th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
Quite impressive.
Unfortunately theres not that much reason for optimism in the Bundesliga.
Leverkusen is currently going up to 30k whilst Bremen chose the worst moment for a stadium renovation and didnt expand to 50k due to high steel prices (which have now come down again).
There are a few smaller clubs who are building new stadiums, but most of the bigger clubs ended up with insufficient caps in their new grounds.
What would be the chances of increasing capacity further at any of the newer Bundesliga stadiums?

Arsenal are apparently already looking at ways to increase capacity at the Emirates from 60K to 70K. So it's possible that some Bundesliga clubs might do the same.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #54
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What would be the chances of increasing capacity further at any of the newer Bundesliga stadiums?
Chances are very slim since there isnt enough money around.
Hertha is considering to build a new football stadium because the Olympiastadion isnt attracting enough fans with its Al-track.
There might be a slim chance that Cologne could expand in the future and, theoretically speaking, I could also imagine that Hamburg might want to do the same at some point. But that would be it I guess.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
ok, the median (i hope i am right) for the championship is 17,218 (12th Coventry 17,622 and 13th Bristol 16,813). For the 2. Bundesliga it is 14,052 (9th Duisburg 14,203 and 10th Osnabrück 13,900).
Nice work sir!!

Quote:
Last season the 2. Bundesliga averaged at 18,142 due to the big teams as bigbossman already mentioned (1. FC Köln averaged at 43,763; median for the whole league: 15,580).
If Gladbach come back down it will go up again as kaiserslautern might not go up, 1860 and Nuremberg look stuck and Düsseldorf and Union Berlin look like they’re gonna come up from 3. liga. All clubs which should push it up.

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Originally Posted by JimB View Post
The Premiership used to have the highest attendances but it was overtaken by the Bundesliga four or five years ago. There are a few reasons for the Bundesliga's bigger attendances:
The premier league was only the highest for a 3 seasons 2000-01 to 2003-04. The Bundesliga has been higher for every other season the premier league has existed. And until 1998-99 Serie A was also higher than the premier league.

Obviously all these are taken on mean, so you'd have to read into them to find out if this figures hold true.

Quote:
1. Since winning the right to host World Cup 2006, there has been a huge stadium building boom in Germany. The average Bundesliga capacity is far higher than the Premiership. This may change over the next ten years or so as the likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Everton, and maybe the likes of West Ham and Chelsea all move to new stadiums. If England wins the right to host World Cup 2018 or 2022, then expect further capacity increases at a number of other stadiums.
Great point, although we can still average higher than the bundesliga in theory, we have 9 stadiums with a capacity of over 40,000. And 6 clubs do anyway.

The bundesliga has 12 teams averaging over 40, but no team with a capacity of over 40 is averaging less than 40. There is the difference. The median of the Bundesliga is over 42,000.

Quote:
2. Ticket prices for Bundesliga games are far, far cheaper than ticket prices for Premiership games. That's one of the reasons why the Premiership is so much richer than the Bundesliga, despite the smaller attendances (and also why the atmosphere is generally worse at Premiership stadiums).
Bundesliga makes greater profits though, no club makes a loss.

I agree that if we had their ticket prices and everyone had the right sized stadium them prem could average 50,000+. I also feel if the Bundesliga clubs had the right sized stadiums too, so could their league.

Schalke and Bayern are both wasting 15,000+ worth of extra fan support. Hamburg too are wasting a sizeable number. Not forgetting Karlsruhe who play in a joke of a stadium, and are still near enough filling it.

Hertha would probably fill a 60,000 stadium which apparently they are looking into, would be good for them they get fluctuating crowds they get at the Olympic as it is too big. There was mention on the boards of Koln expanding. So there is scope to push the averages of the Bundesliga higher.

I think it's relatively equal.

Quote:
3. Germany's population is 60% bigger than England's
I don't think you can take population as a whole into account, that’s far too American. I think you have to take population of the metro areas teams play in. Because Population doesn’t correlate to fan support, clubs are inherently local and by that nature if a large population centre is out of the limelight the source isn’t going to be as tapped as it would be if they had teams in the limelight.

South West England and Eastern Germany are prime examples. These have big clubs who would fill pretty big grounds at the sniff of the top flight, or even just a new modern stadium.

Theoritically most countries all other things being equal should be able to average the same. PSG are the real crux, they have no competition and play in a 9 million+ urban area, they should have no problem filling 100,000, in theory of course.

Quote:
and Germany's lower division clubs aren't nearly as well supported as English lower division clubs.
On the lower divisions that is a distorted point as well, you have taken stats on face value and not read into them.

The Bundesliga for some reason is amateur/semi pro below the 2nd tier and they have only just introduced a national third tier in which reserve teams of the big sides play and ruin averages. If you compare the mean and median averages of both third tiers not including reserve teams the Bundesliga’s averages increase as you don’t have the 709 average of Werder Bremen 2 to account for.

These are the median figures, 5,852 in league 1 and 6.378 in the 3. liga, not significant but the Bundesliga is higher none the less.

The mean average for the 3. liga is 6,383, compared to 7,572. But remember the mean is distorted by Leeds and Leicester.

Also you can hardly make fair comparisons below that as Germany football is totally regionalised. And if you look below the third tier you see that some massive clubs are lurking Carl ziess Jena, FC madgdeburg and Locomotiv Leipzig who have appeared in European finals. Dynamo Berlin, former Bundesliga clubs like Fortuna koln and stuttgarter kickers. A lot “big” and potentially big clubs lurking low and playing in crumbling stadiums infront of semi pro football. Despite that some still get good crowds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecological View Post
Here you go again!

Coca Cola Championship has the 4th highest amount of turnstyles being turned each season. Is that better for you. Yes they play more games but they still turn those turnstyles.
That is a better way of putting it. Yes they have more turnstile movements in a season. They may not take more because they probably charge lower. However still not a good way of comparing. That’s the whole point of averages to compare different sized samples effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
I guess the Premiership will be looking for something similar - especially if England wins the right to host WC 2018 or 2020.

There'll be an increase of capacity at the following clubs - most of which will be able to fill the vast majority of their new capacity:

That's not to mention the likely improvements and capacity increases at various Championship and lower division stadiums.
What do you reckon can we fill them?? I’d say out of that list Villa surprisingly are the least likely, there crowds have gone down this season and they never struck me as that well supported for their size.

I would love to see it though. Do you think Arsenal would just increase to 70, I’ve heard much higher figures thrown about?? I think much nearer 80 to get positive results on NPV and ROCE and all that jazz

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
What would be the chances of increasing capacity further at any of the newer Bundesliga stadiums?

Arsenal are apparently already looking at ways to increase capacity at the Emirates from 60K to 70K. So it's possible that some Bundesliga clubs might do the same.
I mentioned earlier about some clubs, but also I think the problem is getting to a level where you know that ground is gonna be 90% full every week, your Stuttgart’s and Frankfurt’s will fill 70,000 3-4 times a season but 55,000 is probably about right so that the 50,000 crowd doesn’t make the stadium look and feel empty and damage the atmosphere.

Another problem with the Bundesliga is many of the smaller clubs are richer Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and Hoffenheim so they are near their elastic limit in terms of fan support, if they ****ed off and some of the bigger clubs lower down playing in crappy stadiums came up and built modern new ones, we might see some more big new grounds. I am thinking Brauschwieg, and some of those Eastern giants.

Last edited by bigbossman; March 27th, 2009 at 10:07 PM.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 10:01 PM   #56
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Map of Englands 4th division and average attendences for last season.

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Old March 27th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
The premier league was only the highest for a 3 seasons 2000-01 to 2003-04. The Bundesliga has been higher for every other season the premier league has existed. And until 1998-99 Serie A was also higher than the premier league.
You have to remember that, in the early days, Premiership clubs generally had severely limited capacities as a result of the recent Taylor report - and as a result of consequent ongoing development (eg. in 1994-95, Spurs' capacity was reduced to 25,000 while the Park Lane was redeveloped; and in 1997-98, capacity was reduced to 28,000 while the Paxton was redeveloped).

Quote:
The bundesliga has 12 teams averaging over 40, but no team with a capacity of over 40 is averaging less than 40. There is the difference. The median of the Bundesliga is over 42,000.
Of the 12 Bundesliga teams averaging over 40K, almost all have capacities significantly over 40K. Of the 3 Premiership clubs that have a capacity of over 40K but who average under 40K, one (Everton) has a capacity of only a few hundred over 40K and another (Aston Villa) has a capacity of only 42K. Consequently, it is far more difficult for them to maintain an average of over 40K.

Quote:
Bundesliga makes greater profits though, no club makes a loss.
That's a different matter altogether. We're talking about the significantly greater cost of attending Premiership games as opposed to Bundesliga games.

Quote:
Schalke and Bayern are both wasting 15,000+ worth of extra fan support. Hamburg too are wasting a sizeable number. Not forgetting Karlsruhe who play in a joke of a stadium, and are still near enough filling it.
Agreed. In the same way, Man Utd could probably average 15K higher if they had the capacity; Liverpool 25K; Chelsea 15K; Arsenal 20K; Spurs 20K; Newcastle 10K; West Ham 10K; Everton 10K; Portsmouth 10K; Hull 5K; Stoke 5K.

Quote:
I think it's relatively equal.
Agreed, though I'm not sure how well Bundesliga attendances would hold up if stadia were made all seater and ticket prices were doubled.

Quote:
I don't think you can take population as a whole into account, that’s far too American. I think you have to take population of the metro areas teams play in. Because Population doesn’t correlate to fan support, clubs are inherently local and by that nature if a large population centre is out of the limelight the source isn’t going to be as tapped as it would be if they had teams in the limelight.
You have a point to an extent but, given the big difference in population (Germany 82 million - England 51 million), it will inevitably have an effect. We are not such different cultures. Population density is not so very different. Both countries cover relatively modest areas of land and both have predominantly urban populations. So the comparison is valid.

And because the lower divisions in England are better supported than they are in Germany, the pool of people who are willing and able to pay to watch live football is more evenly stretched across the divisions in England.

Quote:
On the lower divisions that is a distorted point as well, you have taken stats on face value and not read into them.

The Bundesliga for some reason is amateur/semi pro below the 2nd tier and they have only just introduced a national third tier in which reserve teams of the big sides play and ruin averages. If you compare the mean and median averages of both third tiers not including reserve teams the Bundesliga’s averages increase as you don’t have the 709 average of Werder Bremen 2 to account for.

These are the median figures, 5,852 in the prem and 6.378 in the Bundesliga, not significant but the Bundesliga is higher none the less.
I'm not such a fan of median figures in this instance. As I said, we are talking about a finite pool of potential supporters. It's therefore equally important to consider the lowest and highest average attendances. All supporters who pay to watch live football must be included for the discussion to have any meaning.

Quote:
Also you can hardly make fair comparisons below that as Germany football is totally regionalised. And if you look below the third tier you see that some massive clubs are lurking Carl ziess Jena, FC madgdeburg who have won European trophies. Locomotiv Leipzig, Dynamo Berlin, former Bundesliga clubs like Fortuna koln and stuttgarter kickers. A lot “big” and potentially big clubs lurking low and playing in crumbling stadiums infront of semi pro football. Despite that some still get good crowds.
That's just the way that German football is organised. It doesn't alter the fact that more people, on average, attend English football matches at a lower level than they do in Germany. You may say that it's hardly a fair comparison but it is no more unfair than comparing a league which allows standing at football matches to one which insists upon all seater stadia. Nor is it any more unfair than comparing a league in which ticket prices are comparatively cheap to a league in which ticket prices are exorbitantly expensive.

Quote:
What do you reckon can we fill them?? I’d say out of that list Villa surprisingly are the least likely, there crowds have gone down this season and they never struck me as that well supported.
I don't suppose that Villa would sell out every game in a 50K stadium. But I think they would average anything up to 45K.

Quote:
Do you think Arsenal would just increase to 70, I’ve heard much higher figures thrown about?? I think much nearer 80 to get positive results on NPV and ROCE and all that jazz
I've no idea, to be honest. I just saw something on another thread a while back which mentioned the possibility of increasing capacity to 70K or so.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 11:15 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by JimB View Post
You have to remember that, in the early days, Premiership clubs generally had severely limited capacities as a result of the recent Taylor report - and as a result of consequent ongoing development (eg. in 1994-95, Spurs' capacity was reduced to 25,000 while the Park Lane was redeveloped; and in 1997-98, capacity was reduced to 28,000 while the Paxton was redeveloped).
Yeah same with us, and the North bank bonds scandal

Although having said that until this decade, all but 3 of the regular bundesliga clubs played in old fashioned open bowl athletics stadiums with no cover and bad views, and old crumbling terraces.

Quote:
Of the 12 Bundesliga teams averaging over 40K, almost all have capacities significantly over 40K. Of the 3 Premiership clubs that have a capacity of over 40K but who average under 40K, one (Everton) has a capacity of only a few hundred over 40K and another (Aston Villa) has a capacity of only 42K. Consequently, it is far more difficult for them to maintain an average of over 40K.
Villa did last season, and they went down for some strange reason. they have roughly the same capacity as Bremen who manage to...

Quote:
That's a different matter altogether. We're talking about the significantly greater cost of attending Premiership games as opposed to Bundesliga games.
Yeah lol, i just wanted to mention it


Quote:
Agreed. In the same way, Man Utd could probably average 15K higher if they had the capacity; Liverpool 25K; Chelsea 15K; Arsenal 20K; Spurs 20K; Newcastle 10K; West Ham 10K; Everton 10K; Portsmouth 10K; Hull 5K; Stoke 5K.
I think your selling a few clubs short, there it would on;y bump you guys up to 55,000 and porstmouth up to 30,000. I reckon both easily have another 10 in them. I also reckon fulham have at least 10 in them.

One thing i'd love to see is a minimum stadium capacity of 30,000 in the big four leagues. I think it's what makes certain clubs look smaller and less attractive when they come up. For instance, palace sell all their season tickets, but then don't fill their ground every week in the prem because when you have choice Bolton at home is not exciting so they don't turn up. If more season tickets were sold they'd average well above 30,000 imho. Croydon is a wash with palace fans they are everywhere.

Quote:
Agreed, though I'm not sure how well Bundesliga attendances would hold up if stadia were made all seater and ticket prices were doubled.
Probably would go down now, but if it had been the case since the 1990s like here probably would be similar.

Quote:
You have a point to an extent but, given the big difference in population (Germany 82 million - England 51 million), it will inevitably have an effect. We are not such different cultures. Population density is not so very different. Both countries cover relatively modest areas of land and both have predominantly urban populations. So the comparison is valid.
I think it really only effects the supra regional clubs like man united and bayern.

Quote:
And because the lower divisions in England are better supported than they are in Germany, the pool of people who are willing and able to pay to watch live football is more evenly stretched across the divisions in England.
I dunno, if locomotive leipzig suddenly had some success you don't think 40,000 fans would suddenly appear at the stadium?? i can't see that with rochdale or even Bradford can you??

I think the difference is many of these huge clubs have been down there for so long its engrained, it's not like Leeds who've been there two seasons, or even Napoli and fiorentina a few years back in serie C2. If they had an extended spell in the lower tiers i can see leeds slumping to under 10,000, most clubs would.

So personally i wouldn't say they are, when you have some of your biggest clubs in the 5th and 6th tier and smaller ones in the higher tiers then it distorts everything.

Quote:
I'm not such a fan of median figures in this instance. As I said, we are talking about a finite pool of potential supporters. It's therefore equally important to consider the lowest and highest average attendances. All supporters who pay to watch live football must be included for the discussion to have any meaning.
I see what you are saying, but if a club averages vastly more or less than others, then surely they are not representative of the league. An average is but it's nature supposed to be what the average club gets, so in this instance for me the median is better.

Take the example of a team playing in a 100,000 stadium averaging 25,000 every week, then one week averaging 75,000. there average would pe pushed higher, only marginally but they are not averaging more than 25,000 every week that's why the median for me is best in this case. i know it's extreme but it illustrates the point hopefully.

I suppose it represents the relative sizes of clubs, but then the only way we would truely know is every club was in the league there size deserved, but then you have to take differing reactions to relegation and promotion etc etc. Lots and lots of variables.

Quote:
That's just the way that German football is organised. It doesn't alter the fact that more people, on average, attend English football matches at a lower level than they do in Germany.
That is true, but how would it be if we had reserve teams in our 3rd division. And many of the clubs who are higher up now were forced down as a result?? The point is we can only really compare the top two divisions effectively as they are similar and professional, but even then as you said, german clubs have cheaper tickets, and bigger stadiums, so it's educated guess work at best.

I don't understand why germany has only a 18 team league though, and all these reserve/amateur teams it restricts a hell of a lot of clubs to the lower levels

Quote:
You may say that it's hardly a fair comparison but it is no more unfair than comparing a league which allows standing at football matches to one which insists upon all seater stadia. Nor is it any more unfair than comparing a league in which ticket prices are comparatively cheap to a league in which ticket prices are exorbitantly expensive.
as i said above lol

[quote]


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I don't suppose that Villa would sell out every game in a 50K stadium. But I think they would average anything up to 45K.
If you increase your ground even by a little it will always increase your attendances. no doubt if Villa played in a 100,000 stadium they'd get 60-70,000 every week (based on mean).


Quote:
I've no idea, to be honest. I just saw something on another thread a while back which mentioned the possibility of increasing capacity to 70K or so.
I just want it done, I really think for what it is the emirates could've been better. Don't get me wrong it's a great stadium but it so represents what the Arsenal board want Arsenal to be and not what Arsenal as a whole are aka the gucci or prada of football stylish and expensive at every turn.

Last edited by bigbossman; March 27th, 2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 07:14 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Nordmannen View Post
Was it important for you to tell that?
No, not really important.

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Originally Posted by Nordmannen View Post
I thought this thread was about attendance.
Guess you are right even though it was defined clearly from the beginning of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Nordmannen View Post
Anyway, I am sure you find Denmark as a very exotic country with great attendance and a fantastic football.
No, not really,

What it important for you to ask that?
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Old March 29th, 2009, 07:04 PM   #60
isaidso
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Originally Posted by SpicyMcHaggis View Post
Football of course, not gridiron.
Well, there are many recognized football codes in the world besides association football, so his question wasn't outlandish. It's not obvious if you live in certain parts of the world. In Canada, football means Canadian football or American football, never association football. The only people that call it that are immigrants, or people who have little respect for the dominant culture here.

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Originally Posted by likasz View Post
I will tell you a secret
Why Bundesliga has the biggest attendance in EUROPE?They have everywhere STANDING ROOMS.
German average attendance is very good. As this is your thread, I'll ask you for clarification. Are we free to post average attendance for all football codes or just association football? If you'd rather people didn't post other codes, I won't.
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Last edited by isaidso; March 29th, 2009 at 07:11 PM.
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