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Old February 13th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #101
Karasek
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Das wars.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #102
silesius
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Pictures are great.

Gasthof "Zum Goldenen Zepter". I try to ask boys from Wroclaw. When still exist (dont forget that this city was almost completly destroyed). If exist i try to show you.

Other question. Preussische Helden. You want remembering of them in Wrocław. Role of Silesia in German state in German history is almost completely cancelled. First try carry about that. For example in German article on wikipedia about Lützowsches Freikorps for example you don't find that they were formed in Silesia and started from Rogau near Zobten. Who in Todays Germany knows facts like this that Iron Cross, till today symbol of German Forces was founded in Breslau ( also not to find in german article on wiki). Who knows that Symbol of Germany from German Euro coins- Brandenburger Tor was build by Silesian. Who knows that Red Baron was Silesian. Who knows about Silesians like our nine Nobel Laureates, about strong character people like Hans Ulrich Rudel, Hanna Reitsch and houndreds of others important people of science and culture.. First try carry about that. More painful for me is thing that many important people from Silesia dont have remembering in Wrocław. Like for example our 9 Noble Laureates or Silesian Dukes. Later we can talk about Preussian Heroes. They are also part of History of the City, and Silesia. Blücher was from Mecklemburg but at the end of his life he get title "Pince von Wahlstatt" and he has live to the end of his life in his "Gut" near Wroclaw. Here Marshall has also his grave (Dewastated in wartime by Red Army). But Monumental Mausoleum still exist. Archiwal and today fotos are to see under link. In Marshall palace is today Hotel and Golf Club. Site of Hotel under link. Also in German there you can find more about Blücher. Similar story has general Yorck or family von Moltke.

Other question- Sandkirche. Church was burned and strong destroyed in a wartime. Im also shocked by strong waste of the baroque furnishings. But this Church was so strong destroyed that was planned leaving them as ruin or even undress.

Catedral Church- was also very strong destroyed. Impact on its destruction was having fact that in one of most important monuments of this city was located in a wartime German warehouse of amunition. At the entrance hanging foto of destroyed Cathedral.

Neumarkt- you right this is disgusting. But do we not exaggerate. In DDR we cant find at least same disgusting buildings.

Question Role of Silesian Piast. Piast were important in Silesia. Also in the time You have writed. Last member of Piast Family was Silesian Prince of Brieg and Liegnitz died 1675. Another question is that Silesian part of the family derives from legendary grounder of Dynasty- Piast. That was having so much in common with Poland like for example Prince Charles from England with Germany. His family roots going to Germany, right? But no one serious think about them as about German. Same is in relations between Silesian and Polish part of Piast Family.

Question of Builers from Lusatia. People like Wendel Rosskopf as you write from Lusatia was builded in Silesia magnificent buildings- for example Town Hall in Lwówek Śląski (Löwenberg in Schlesien . If you have more information about person Wendel Rosskopf or Briccius Gauske please write about. Personally im very interested. Maybe on Priv. Town Hall from Löwenberg was showed on postmark in serie Deutsche Post- Deutsche Bauwerke.



Especially insides are interesting. On polish site of the Town is possible virtual visit on panoramas- under link. Not so long ago i was writing about this townhall on polish forum. Pictures are to see under link. Other example where Wendel Rosskopf has working in Silesia is Townhall in Bolesławiec (Bunzlau).

When goes about Briccius Gauske on many sites he is called "Breslauer Baumeister". You write about them as about from Upper Lusatia. One can not deny the other. I wish to know more details about them. People like born in Görlitz Jakob Böhme his important works has create in Silesia serving Silesian patrons. His ideas was have a major impact in Silesian Culture ( Echoes of his works are to find in works of Angelus Silesius, Daniel Czepko von Reigersfeld and others). As it turns was existed more examples of Silesian-Lusatian ties. Both lands where together as Böhmen Kronländer in the same time. Red Lusatian Bull is often together with Black Silesian Eagle on Buildings in Prag like St. Vitus Cathedral or Karlsbrücke..

For Lusatia and Silesia

Last edited by silesius; February 19th, 2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #103
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Jetzt kommt feinster sozialistischer Brutalismus ins Bild. Diese Bebauung ist die Ostseite des Neumarktes. Soweit ich weiß gibt es Pläne diesen Platz teilweise wieder zu rekonstruieren, oder wenigstens etwas ansprechender zu gestalten. Sowas häßliches gabs glaub ich in der DDR nicht:
Actually "Nowy Targ" have nothing to do with Brutalism (we don't have many examples of this style in Poland) all buildings were originally painted, what you see is merely a result of 50 years of inadequate maintenance.
I doubt they will rebuild anything there, what would happen to the inhabitants it's not like you can just tell them to move because you don't like how their home looks like and it would be probably impossible to buy all the apartments.
My guess is they will just cover them in polystyrene and paint like thousands of similar buildings in Poland.

Anyway that reminds that we have a nice thread about postwar architecture in Wrocław :

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=925684
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Old February 13th, 2010, 11:26 PM   #104
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Danke für das update! Ich mag deine Bilders! Sie sind sehr schön!
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Old February 14th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Gasthof "Zum Goldenen Zepter". I try to ask boys from Wroclaw. When still exist (dont forget that this city was almost completly destroyed). If exist i try to show you.
No, the house doesn't exist anymore. The entire quarter was badly damaged.


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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Other question. Preussische Helden. You want remembering of them in Wrocław. Role of Silesia in German state in German history is almost completely cancelled. First try carry about that. For example in German article on wikipedia about Lützowsches Freikorps for example you don't find that they were formed in Silesia and started from Rogau near Zobten. Who in Todays Germany knows facts like this that Iron Cross, till today symbol of German Forces was founded in Breslau ( also not to find in german article on wiki). Who knows that Symbol of Germany from German Euro coins- Brandenburger Tor was build by Silesian. Who knows that Red Baron was Silesian. Who knows about Silesians like our nine Nobel Laureates, about strong character people like Hans Ulrich Rudel, Hanna Reitsch and houndreds of others important people of science and culture.. First try carry about that. More painful for me is thing that many important people from Silesia dont have remembering in Wrocław. Like for example our 9 Noble Laureates or Silesian Dukes. Later we can talk about Preussian Heroes. They are also part of History of the City, and Silesia.

You are of course partly right. The history of the former eastern part of Germany is nearly forgotten in todays Germany. In Eastern Germany it was already revanchist to use the German names of the towns and villages, the entire history of the places to the east of the Oder/Odra was buried away in silence. Western Germany didn't care for the former east, they had their economic miracle and wanted to forget. The expellees were mostly ignored and ridiculed.
But it can't be our mission to preserve the history of places we don't own anymore. This history must be preserved by the people who now live there, which means you Poles (and Russians/Czechs). I don't want you to commemorate Prussian heroes but the history of the place.... which includes some Prussians.

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Other question- Sandkirche. Church was burned and strong destroyed in a wartime. Im also shocked by strong waste of the baroque furnishings. But this Church was so strong destroyed that was planned leaving them as ruin or undress.
Catedral Church- was also very strong destroyed. Impact on its destruction was having fact that in one of most important monuments of this city was located in a wartime German warehouse of amunition. At the entrance hanging foto of destroyed Cathedral.
I know they were destroyed. But you can't deny the fact that the Communists practiced a ideological reconstruction with the goal to remove all German traces. The churches were a central part of their ideology, their pure gothic appearance served as a reminder of the Piast (Polish) past of the place. It wasn't that difficult to, for example, reconstruct the Baroque choir screen of the cathedral, but they simply didn't want to. And they did not just not reconstruct later additions, they also removed preserved additions. As I said, some of them are now in Warsaw.
PS: read Gregor Thums "Obce Miasto. Wrocław 1945" about this topic. Quite interesting.

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Neumarkt- you right this is disgusting. But do we not exaggerate. In DDR we cant find at least same disgusting buildings.
Really? The GDR- Commie blocks are ugly, but IMHO this tops them. But that's personal taste, whe shouldn't argue what's uglier.
Hopefully both are gone some day.



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Question Role of Silesian Piast. Piast were important in Silesia. Also in the time You have writed. Last member of Piast Family was Silesian Prince of Brieg and Liegnitz died 1675. Another question is that Silesian part of the family derives from legendary grounder of Dynasty- Piast. That was having so much in common with Poland like for example Prince Charles from England with Germany. His family roots going to Germany, right? But no one serious think about them as about German. Same is in relations between Silesian and Polish part of Piast Family.
Well, the Commie propaganda sold them as eternal Poles, and I referred to this propaganda.
And the Piasts lost their importance pretty fast. First and foremost because of the fragmentation of their territorries, but also because of the rise of the towns. Keep in mind that most towns of Silesia obtained a far-reaching indepence from their rulers. The Piasts had almost no power in Wroclaw/Breslau, in the town the city council was far more powerful. And I referred to that power when I talked about the town hall. The dukes were not involved, only the citizenry.

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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Question of Builers from Lusatia. People like Wendel Rosskopf as you write from Lusatia was builded in Silesia magnificent buildings- for example Town Hall in Lwówek Śląski (Löwenberg in Schlesien . If you have more information about person Wendel Rosskopf or Briccius Gauske please write about.

When goes about Briccius Gauske on many sites he is called "Breslauer Baumeister". You write about them as about from Upper Lusatia. One can not deny the other. I wish to know more details about them. People like born in Görlitz Jakob Böhme his important works has create in Silesia serving Silesian patrons. His ideas was have a major impact in Silesian Culture ( Echoes of his works are to find in works of Angelus Silesius, Daniel Czepko von Reigersfeld and others). As it turns was existed more examples of Silesian-Lusatian ties. Both lands where together as Böhmen Kronländer in the same time. Red Lusatian Bull is often together with Black Silesian Eagle on Buildings in Prag like St. Vitus Cathedral or Karlsbrücke..
Briccius Gauske was certainly no builder from Wroclaw/Breslau, he only did his most famous work there. All academic and trustworthy books I know call him an Upper Lusatian. The masons of Breslau formed a guild shortly before the town hall was expanded, he otherwise would have been listed there. The masons of Breslau at that time were also known to be rather conservative, Gauskes style was much more modern and in line with Saxon and Bohemian traditions. Almost all Upper Lusatian builders back then learned their craft in Prague, which was the artistic center of the HRE. That's were he most probably learned his modern style, and this was the reason why the city council of Breslau invited him and other builders from Upper Lusatia and Saxony to build the town hall. The local builders simply weren't good enough. Where he was born isn't known, maybe in an Upper Lusatian village called Gaussig, which was founded by a family called "de Gusk".
The same happened again during the Renaissance, when builders from Upper Lusatia, also all trained in Prague, spread their style all over Silesia.


PS: look what I found. A color photo of the completely colored Oratorium Marianum before the war:

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Old February 15th, 2010, 05:22 PM   #106
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I know they were destroyed. But you can't deny the fact that the Communists practiced a ideological reconstruction with the goal to remove all German traces. The churches were a central part of their ideology, their pure gothic appearance served as a reminder of the Piast (Polish) past of the place. It wasn't that difficult to, for example, reconstruct the Baroque choir screen of the cathedral, but they simply didn't want to. And they did not just not reconstruct later additions, they also removed preserved additions. As I said, some of them are now in Warsaw.
PS: read Gregor Thums "Obce Miasto. Wrocław 1945" about this topic. Quite interesting.
But certainly not everything was only question of propaganda. Rebuild of almost completly destroyed city, this size was enormous hard. I was having opportunity see how it was made in Germany On Low Rhine by border of Holland. There many of towns were also strong destroyed in a wartime. And quality of rebuliding and restoration in places like Wroclaw are often lot lot better. Other question is that builders of first church- Augustinian monchs camed oryginally not from Germany and from Flanderen in today Belgium- Arrovaise in County Artois. They came at the invitation of the Silesian Palatine- Peter Wlast. His first sit was in Zobten around 30 km from Wrocław. Church was later rebuild in time of bishop Preclaw von Pogarell.

Wrocław have lot of beatiful monumental gothic churches. Very interesting buildings. Many of them is buided as Order Churches, couple of them by Knights Orders. Monumental Sandkirche near Cathedral Church, St. Elisabeth Kirche, St. Maria Magdalena is one of the biggest and belongs to the most interesting objects.

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Well, the Commie propaganda sold them as eternal Poles, and I referred to this propaganda.
And the Piasts lost their importance pretty fast. First and foremost because of the fragmentation of their territorries, but also because of the rise of the towns. Keep in mind that most towns of Silesia obtained a far-reaching indepence from their rulers. The Piasts had almost no power in Wroclaw/Breslau, in the town the city council was far more powerful. And I referred to that power when I talked about the town hall. The dukes were not involved, only the citizenry.
Its true about commies. Maybe i surprise you- Today this line of thinking still dominate in Poland. President Kaczynski today uses same rhetoric when he talk about Silesia, Pommern, East Prussia. Truth is not to accept by most of people. People who know and understand as it really was with Silesia belong to a very small group. But this is nothing special and new. Not different was during German period. Accent was standing on this was having connection with Germany and German culture. Slavic language speaking people which were present in Silesia during all history were discriminated and persecuted. Even forced for many centuries Coat of Arms of the city was not to accept and changed in nazi time. Problem was presence there letter "W", from legendary grounder of city Czech duke Wratislaw. Todays name of the city refers to him. Latein name of the city was Vratislavia.

And the Piasts lost their importance pretty fast. Hmm. Here I can not agree. True is as you say that fragmentation was reason why that the importance from times of first members Silesian Line of Piast Family declined. Family members like Henry II Pious or Henry IV ruled territory Silesia, Krakow and Southern Greater Poland. Around half of territory todays Poland. That was most important areas in the country. Governments successors area was much smaller.

Truth is that City Hall from Wrocław is builing which represents the power of the local citizenry. Piast dukest have nothing to do with this. But importance of Piast Dukes in neighbouring areas Duchy Liegnitz-Brieg was strong to the end of all dynasty in the XVII century. Summarize- Polish side sold Silesian Piast as eternal Poles, and use them in propaganda. German side which you represent here- try to ignore his role. Both sides are wrong. I think that Truth lies somewhere between...

Thank you for information about Briccius Gauske.

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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
The masons of Breslau at that time were also known to be rather conservative, Gauskes style was much more modern and in line with Saxon and Bohemian traditions. Almost all Upper Lusatian builders back then learned their craft in Prague, which was the artistic center of the HRE. That's were he most probably learned his modern style, and this was the reason why the city council of Breslau invited him and other builders from Upper Lusatia and Saxony to build the town hall. The local builders simply weren't good enough. ".

The same happened again during the Renaissance, when builders from Upper Lusatia, also all trained in Prague, spread their style all over Silesia
Buildings of Gauske or Wendel Rosskopf are magnificent. But i have few comments to your words. After read your words i have a feeling that you not properly appreciating the role of the same Silesians. Dont forget about role of our citizenry. So really they and his money have decided who will them employ to build and how building will be look like. So really Breslauer Town Hall was builded not with one pair of hands. That was taken for generations. Gauske was one person in the line of a whole serie of builders. The authors of the original implementation of the object were local masters from Breslau- Alberik and Martin. Entlargement of the building in the years 1470-1510 were made also by builders from Breslau - Jost Tauchen (born in Liegnitz, he has worked also in Görlitz and propably because of that you have call him Lusatian earlier- same mistake i was made with Briccius Gauske), Hans and Peter Berthold (Breslauern) together with them works are made by masters from Lusatia- Paul Preusse and Briccius Gauske. It was not this way? This of course does not diminish their contribution and the fact that they were excellent, even magnificent masters.

Moreover. Maybe you don`t know a facts that in the same time when Lusatian masters learned in Prag their colleagues from the benches were Silesians.. Not only Collegues. Sometimes even masters. Short before expulsion of German students from Prag 5 Rectors (also on highest position) on University in Prague was from Silesia- Nicolaus Magni de Jawor (also proffesor and rector of University in Heidelberg) Johannes Otto von Münsterberg (He was also first Rector of Uniwesity in Leipzig after expulsion of German students from Prag), Johannes Hoffmann von Schweidnitz (professor and rector University in Prag then Rector on University in Leipzig. Later Bishop von Meissen), Nikolaus Stohr von Schweidnitz (Rector of University in Prag in 1401). Chancellor and diplomat of Two Czech Kings from Luxemburg Dynasty ( One of them Karl IV was German Emperror) was educated in Italy Silesian- Johannes von Neumarkt. In terms of education Silesians were also not behind Lusatians as have you insinuate.

In question between Silesia-Saxonia. Silesian Nobel Prize Laureate- Günther Blobel which survive bombing of Dresden, (yesterday was anniwersary) was for example one of serious initiators and sponsors of rebuild Dresdner Frauekirche.. Strong Saxonian episodes was having also another Silesian Nobel Prize Laueate- Gerhart Hauptman, you can read about in his book- "The Story Of My Youth". Kurt Masur, Silesian- born in Brieg, was also active for many years in Leipzig and Dresden. There is for sure many more examples..

Breslauer City Hall looks interesting also inside. Is possible to visit them virtually. More works of Briccius Gauske are also there. Yesterday i was find third Silesian object builded by Wendel Rosskopf. After City Halls in Löwenberg und Bunzlau his works are also in Castle Gröditz/ Zamek Grodziec near Goldberg. Here are photos under link.

Last edited by silesius; February 20th, 2010 at 12:08 PM.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 06:19 PM   #107
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But certainly not everything was only question of propaganda. Rebuild of almost completly destroyed city, this size was enormous hard. I was having opportunity see how it was made in Germany On Low Rhine by border of Holland. There many of towns were also strong destroyed in a wartime. And quality of rebuliding and restoration in places like Wroclaw are often lot lot better. Other question is that builders of first church- Augustinian monchs camed oryginally not from Germany and from Flanderen in today Belgium- Arrovaise in County Artois. They came at the invitation of the Silesian Palatine- Peter Wlast. His first sit was in Zobten around 30 km from Wrocław. Church was later rebuild in time of bishop Preclaw von Pogarell.
Sure, the rebuilding of most German cities after the war was hardly a success by todays standards. Many cities in the Rhein and Ruhr area are butt-ugly. The situation was however a lot better in Southern Germany. Cities like Augsburg, Würzburg or Munich, all heavily destroyed, were rebuilt quite nice. Not as good as *parts* of Wroclaw of course, but please be honest: Wroclaw was a showcase. There isn't a second town in Silesia which received nearly the same care. In case you can get it, read "Memorial Stowarzyszenia Historykow Sztuki o stanie zabytkow na dolnym Slasku" from 1986.
Oh, and of course not every builder came from Germany.

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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Wrocław have lot of beatiful monumental gothic churches. Very interesting buildings. Many of them is buided as Order Churches, couple of them by Knights Orders. Monumental Sandkirche near Cathedral Church, St. Elisabeth Kirche, St. Maria Magdalena is one of the biggest and belongs to the most interesting objects.
Sorry, can't agree here. To me these churches were all quite boring. They all lacked the layers of time. To me they somehow felt empty and strangely unhistoric without much of their interiors.


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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Its true about commies. Maybe i surprise you- Today this line of thinking still dominate in Poland. President Kaczynski today uses same rhetoric when he talk about Silesia, Pommern, East Prussia. Truth is not to accept by most of people. People who know and understand as it really was with Silesia belong to a very small group. But this is nothing special and new. Not different was during German period. Accent was standing on this was having connection with Germany and German culture. Slavic language speaking people which were present in Silesia during all history were discriminated and persecuted. Even forced for many centuries Coat of Arms of the city was not to accept and changed in nazi time. Problem was presence there letter "W", from legendary grounder of city Czech duke Wratislaw. Todays name of the city refers to him. Latein name of the city was Vratislavia.
Sure, I know that Nazi-Germany tried to erase the Slavic history of these places. Happened here in Upper Lusatia too.


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And the Piasts lost their importance pretty fast. Hmm. Here I can not agree. True is as you say that fragmentation was reason why that the importance from times of first members Silesian Line of Piast Family declined. Family members like Henry II Pious or Henry IV ruled territory Silesia, Krakow and Southern Greater Poland. Around half of territory todays Poland. That was most important areas in the country. Governments successors area was much smaller.
These were rulers of the 13th century, I spoke more about the 14th century and later. And at that time the cities were already important enough so that the Piasts actually had to discuss the Bohemian issue with the towns.

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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Truth is that City Hall from Wrocław is builing which represents the power of the local citizenry. Piast dukest have nothing to do with this. But importance of Piast Dukes in neighbouring areas Duchy Liegnitz-Brieg was strong to the end of all dynasty in the XVII century. Summarize- Polish side sold Silesian Piast as eternal Poles, and use them in propaganda. German side which you represent here- try to ignore his role. Both sides are wrong. I think that Truth lies somewhere between...
I don't ignore their role, I just think their role declined pretty fast. Sure, the Piast of the 12th and 13th century were able and strong rulers, but by the 14th century they already lacked the power to remain independent between two bigger powers. And the duchies of the later centuries weren't strong at all. They had depts, sold more and more of their lands to the estates, which sold them to the emperor, which again pressed the dukes to make concessions. Their position inside Bohemia was purely juristic, they had no power to back their position. The politics during that time, especially during the turbulent years of the reformation, was made by all estates, the Piasts were just the legal guarantor of the status quo.



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Originally Posted by silesius View Post
Buildings of Gauske or Wendel Rosskopf are magnificent. But i have few comments to your words. After read your words i have a feeling that you not properly appreciating the role of the same Silesians. Dont forget about role of our citizenry. So really they and his money have decided who will them employ to build and how building will be look like. So really Breslauer Town Hall was builded not with one pair of hands. That was taken for generations. Gauske was one person in the line of a whole serie of builders. The authors of the original implementation of the object were local masters from Breslau- Alberik and Martin. Entlargement of the building in the years 1470-1510 were made also by builders from Breslau - Jost Tauchen (born in Liegnitz, he has worked also in Görlitz and propably because of that you have call him Lusatian earlier- same mistake i was made with Briccius Gauske), Hans and Peter Berthold (Breslauern) together with them works are made by masters from Lusatia- Paul Preusse and Briccius Gauske. It was not this way? This of course does not diminish their contribution and the fact that they were excellent, even magnificent masters.
Well, I only wrote what my Dehio (art guide) told me...
BTW: this Dehio is actually a German- Polish cooperation and also available in Polish. Highly recommended.


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Moreover. Maybe you don`t know a facts that in the same time when Lusatian masters learned in Prag their colleagues from the benches were Silesians.. Not only Collegues.
Well, Prague was the center of the lands of the Bohemian crown, of course their were lots of Silesians in Prague. My Dehio just tells me that the art in Silesia back then was rather conservative and the master builders in Saxony and Upper Lusatia more modern. And since most new architectural ideas came from the west and spread to the east (Germany always learned from France and Italy) it makes sense to me.

Last edited by Karasek; February 27th, 2010 at 07:41 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:32 PM   #108
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These were rulers of the 13th century, I spoke more about the 14th century and later. And at that time the cities were already important enough so that the Piasts actually had to discuss the Bohemian issue with the towns.

I don't ignore their role, I just think their role declined pretty fast. Sure, the Piast of the 12th and 13th century were able and strong rulers, but by the 14th century they already lacked the power to remain independent between two bigger powers. And the duchies of the later centuries weren't strong at all. They had depts, sold more and more of their lands to the estates, which sold them to the emperor, which again pressed the dukes to make concessions. Their position inside Bohemia was purely juristic, they had no power to back their position. The politics during that time, especially during the turbulent years of the reformation, was made by all estates, the Piasts were just the legal guarantor of the status quo.
In the area of Breslau you have right. Last Duke of Breslau from Piast family was Henry VI The Good (died 24 November 1335). In other Duchies, Silesian Piast having ruled longer. In Duchy Liegnitz-Brieg-Wohlau till XVII century. They were not exercised the role of absolute rulers like in XIII century but came to the role major form of the aristocracy recognizing the sovereignty of the Czech kings.

Silesian Piast were near connected with a marriage with members the Czech Royal Family. Wife of Henry II was Anna, daughter of Bohemian King Přemysl I. Ottokar. Many of Silesian Piasts grewed up and were brought up at the Royal Court in Prague. Henry IV The Righteous even after the death of Premysl Ottokar II intend to ask the Czech throne but has losing in competition with Rudolf Habsburg. Even in a battle at Dürnkrut were died Bohemian King were present Silesian troops with Henry IV The Righteous.


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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Sorry, can't agree here. To me these churches were all quite boring. They all lacked the layers of time. To me they somehow felt empty and strangely unhistoric without much of their interiors.
You have right to have your opinion. Sad to here it so. I think that Third biggest German city from 1880 (After Berlin and Hamburg) even strong destroyed in WWII have still lot to offer. ( Effect of strong fights against Soviet Army. Defence during longer than in fall of Berlin.) These are things different in character like this what we know from Prague or Wien. Always was so. The Town was heavily marked by the Protestant religion and because of that Temples was more severe and modestly equipped. In biggest part we meet here big Gothick Churches builded from red brick. This is characteristic for the place. In other places some Catholics Temples were particularly great, because builders want to dazzling with his splendor of the Protestant inhabitants of the Town. You dont know Urban legends from the place and things like this and without this place losing a lot of his attractivity. Agains this you have texts written by hostile revansists, often from old times. Something was changed from this times. Sometimes Polish catholics makes that some churches like for example Cathedral Church looks better as ever before..

Here relation of old inhabitant of the Town. -Ein Breslauer besucht Wrocław von Georg Rammelt, Frühjahr 2004,

"(..)Die Tour führt weiter zur Dominsel. Die vielen sakralen Bauten und die prächtigen Häuser dazwischen beeindrucken uns alle. Wir passieren die Statue des heiligen Nepomuk, dann stehen wir vor der großen Kirche, dem Dom. Die Temperatur verweilt immer noch bei 4 Grad Celsius. Es nieselt leicht und frischer Wind kommt auf. Alle Mitglieder unserer Reisegruppe frösteln. Dann geht es in den Dom, alle hoffen auf ein bisschen Wärme. Die Schönheit im Inneren des Domes weckt unsere Bewunderung und Ehrfurcht. Als Kind war ich im Dom, so schön habe ich dieses eindrucksvolle Bauwerk allerdings nicht in der Erinnerung. Der jahrzehntelange und durchaus positive Einfluss der polnischen Katholiken ist nicht zu übersehen."

Here one example for renovation from last years. Possible made after Your visit. St. Matthias Church builded by Knights of the Cross with the Red Star. Building from XIII century. Still is lot to do but so bad as You write isnt, i hope so.. Anyway we have good examples too. In this Church is burried silesian poet, Johannes Scheffler better known as Angelus Sileius. If somebody knows things like this places are more interesting. This city has many well known people like for example Edith Stein.

Pictures from Hydral. Autors of the pictures under.



Foto by kudelin°



Foto by zuf°

Here with "Tower from Photoshop".



Foto by mlose°

If You want i can show more. But its Your thread. You are Boss here. I dont want to destroy it.

Last edited by silesius; March 2nd, 2010 at 03:48 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #109
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O.K let me understand your silence as acceptation.

Pictures are made by man from Wroclaw, his nick is "Skansen" and are from his thread in my free translation and interpretation (of course long away from original, but i want to tell you what about goes) - "Wroclaw, Good and Bad Sides" I show You here Good Sides. Bad Sides Are no secret and are to see under link in thread under link higher.







Pictures upside were made from Mathematic Tower of University. To see under.













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Old March 4th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #110
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Former Bernardines Order Church and Monastery. Actually Museum of Architecture.











Church of St. Elizabeth- Former Biggest Evangelic Church in The Town. Winned in a cardplay from Master of Knights Order.







Ägidiuskirche- one of smallest and oldest Churches in the City. In the shadow of lot biggest Cathedral Church.



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Old March 4th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #111
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I was talking about Monumental Gothik Churches from Red Brick. I show them later.

Look from Uniwersity Buildings on barock parts of Uniwersity and Church near them.



I dont even know the name of this Church. Im not from the City. But who can remember this when you have there around 5-7 Big Ones and many more smallest like for example this One. Everything on relative small area. Biggest concentration on Cathedral Island.



You see yourself. Behind next one..





Of course somethimes you can find also something different than churches.
This is proof- this is normal city where goes normal life. Behind church again. Oh no..



Lot of Red Brick buildings. Not only The Churches are made from this. This is part of the City Hall.



And this is.. I dont know. But i like buildings like this. This is characteristic for the place.







This building was long time strong destroyed. Today fresh rebuilded. Inside is a Hotel.

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Old March 4th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #112
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Brief von Breslau nach Wrocław
Heinz Winfried Sabais

Lieber Tadeusz Różewicz, Sie leben
in Wrocław, ich bin in Breslau geboren.
Die Sauvenflüge, die Flockenfälle,
die Jahreszeiten, die ehrwürdigen Steine
begegnen uns, den Passanten, freundlich.
Aber die Stadt nennt uns Kinder.

Ostrow Tumski erinnert mit Glocken,
dass Codex Maioris Poloniae Deutsche
und Polen als Nächstverwandte beschworen.
Da sah ich die grausam verheerte Stadt
in neuer Würde, von Polen gerettet
aus den Trümmerwüsten des Jahrhunderts.

Sei gegrüßt Wratislavia,
und du, grausilberne Oder,
wälderbepelzte Babuschka!
Sang mit dir deutsch und polnisch,
und träumte in deinen alten Geschichten
am Feuerchen unter der Eisenbahnbrücke.

Lieber Tadeusz Różewicz, wir beide
sind Civites Wratislavienses, Gott will es.
Die Stadt hat uns beide in ihre Geschichte
genommen. Die heraklitische Oder
umfriedet Ihre und meine Jahre.
Wir müssen uns leiden. Oder wir sterben.



Der Glockenguß zu Breslau
Wilhelm Müller, 1794-1827

War einst ein Glockengießer
Zu Breslau in der Stadt,
Ein ehrenwerter Meister,
Gewandt in Rat und Tat.

Er hatte schon gegossen
Viel Glocken, gelb und weiß,
Für Kirchen und Kapellen,
Zu Gottes Lob und Preis.

Und seine Glocken klangen
So voll, so hell, so rein;
Er goß auch Lieb' und Glauben
Mit in die Form hinein.

Doch aller Glocken Krone,
Die er gegossen hat,
Das ist die Sünderglocke
Zu Breslau in der Stadt.

Im Magdalenenturme,
Da hängt das Meisterstück.
Rief schon manch starres Herze
Zu seinem Gott zurück.

Wie hat der gute Meister
So treu das Werk bedachtl
Wie hat er seine Hände
Gerührt bei Tag und Nacht!

Und als die Stunde kommen,
Daß alles fertig war,
Die Form ist eingemauert,
Die Speise gut und gar;

Da ruft er seinen Buben
Zur Feuerwacht herein:
"Ich lass' auf kurze Weile
Beim Kessel dich allein.

Will mich mit einem Trunke
Noch stärken zu dem Guß
Das gibt der zähen Speise
Erst einen vollen Fluß.

Doch hüte dich, und rühre
Den Hahn mir nimmer an,
Sonst wär' es um dein Leben,
Fürwitziger, getan!"

Der Bube steht am Kessel,
Schaut in die Glut hinein:
Das wogt und wallt und wirbelt
Und will entfesselt sein,

Und zischt ihm in die Ohren
Und zuckt ihm durch den Sinn,
Und zieht an allen Fingern
Ihn nach dem Hahne hin.

Er fühlt ihn in den Händen,
Er hat ihn umgedreht;
Da wird ihm angst und bange,
Er weiß nicht, was er rät'.

Und läuft hinaus zum Meister,
Die Schuld ihm zu gestehn,
Will seine Knie umfassen,
Und ihn um Gnade flehn.

Doch wie der nur vernommen
Des Knaben erstes Wort,
Da reißt die kluge Rechte
Der jähe Zorn ihm fort.

Er stößt sein scharfes Messer
Dem Buben in die Brust,
Dann stürzt er nach dem Kessel,
Sein selber nicht bewußt.

Vielleicht, daß er noch retten,
Den Strom noch hemmen kann:
Doch sieh, der Guß ist fertig,
Es fehlt kein Tropfen dran.

Da eilt er abzuräumen,
Und sieht, und will's nicht sehn,
Ganz ohne Fleck und Makel
Die Glocke vor sich stehn.

Der Knabe liegt am Boden,
Er schaut sein Werk nicht mehr:
Ach Meister, wilder Meister,
Du stießest gar zu sehrl

Er stellt sich dem Gerichte,
Er klagt sich selber an,
Es tut den Richtern wehe
Wohl um den wackern Mann.

Doch kann ihn keiner retten,
Und Blut will wieder Blut.
Er hört sein Todesurteil
Mit ungebeugtem Mut.

Und als der Tag gekommen,
Daß man ihn fährt hinaus,
Da wird ihm angeboten
Der letzte Gnadenschmaus.

"Ich dank' euch", spricht der Meister,
"Ihr Herren lieb und wert;
Doch eine andre Gnade
Mein Herz von euch begehrt:

Laßt mich nur einmal hören
Der neuen Glocke Klang.
Ich hab' sie ja bereitet,
Möcht' wissen, ob's gelang

Die Bitte ward gewähret,
Sie schien den Herrn gering;
Die Glocke ward geläutet,
Als er zum Tode ging.

Der Meister hört sie klingen,
So voll, so hell, so rein!
Die Augen gehn ihm über,
Es muß vor Freude sein:

Und seine Blicke leuchten,
Als wären sie verklärt;
Er hat in ihrem Klange
Wohl mehr als Klang gehört.

Hat auch geneigt den Nacken
Zum Streich voll Zuversicht;
Und was der Tod versprochen
Das bricht das Leben nicht.

Das ist der Glocken Krone,
Die er gegossen hat,
Die Magdalenenglocke
Zu Breslau in der Stadt.

Die ward zur Sünderglocke
Seit jenem Tag geweiht;
Weiß nicht, ob's anders worden
In dieser neuen Zeit.

Last edited by silesius; March 4th, 2010 at 08:26 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #113
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St Maria Magdalena Church, one of Gothik Monumental. Strong destroyed during wartime. In this Church hung one of symbols this City- "Sündnerglocke". Together with the tower has collapsed. Striking the pavement gave his last sound.



700 years old- "Schweidnitzer Keller" in City Hall.



As you see photographer like this tram. There is no much of so modern ones, thats why..





Then i show more ordinary photos. First i want to wake up curiosity and prove that even so destroyed City during the wartime do not have loose everything..
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Old March 5th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #114
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sehr ansehnlich
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Old March 5th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #115
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Now about Gothick Monumental. Under Three of them at the same picture. Except one archiwal pictures were made by el_barto.



St. Cross Church on Cathedral Island





Cathedral Church during wartime was destroyed in 70 proc.



autor of picture Andrzej K.

Here Cathedral Church during renovation. From 1990 we can see lot of positive changes.









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Old March 5th, 2010, 12:46 PM   #116
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Bridge on Cathedral Island



Here look in other side. Next Gothick Monumental is "Sandkirche."









On first plan, one of smallest and oldest Churches- St. Martin.

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Old March 5th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #117
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Many churches has been erected as a temple of the monastery. Many of them belonged to the Knight Orders sometimes with interesting history. Like in fall Lazaruskirche builded by Lazarusorden.







Here Corpus Christi Church- builded by Knights from Military Order of Malta.





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Old March 5th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #118
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Fantastic impressions of Breslau/Wroclaw again. Thanks a lot for sharing silesius


More to come?
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Old March 5th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #119
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Praise are going to authors of the pictures. Im showing works of others. I want to show that city dont live with the past. Live and develops herself.





Lot of modern buildings are controversial and opinions about them are different..





But City is not only the buildings..

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Old March 5th, 2010, 08:16 PM   #120
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If you show photos of other people please give a link to the original source. Danke.
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