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Old June 20th, 2019, 09:03 AM   #4721
zoomwhoosh
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I said that before. I actually think it makes sense to have mega-development on the old industrial area - including Hardies and including the race course. Not everyone agrees
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Old June 20th, 2019, 09:32 AM   #4722
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Zoom

Auto alley would be better for a maga development because it is relatively cheap, closer to the Westconnex and does not need any expensive clean up
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Old June 24th, 2019, 11:41 AM   #4723
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Latest geotechnical site is Suttor St, Silverwater for up to 2 weeks from 01/07/19.

Is a long way south of Rydalmere. Are they now considering no station(s) between SOP and Parramatta?
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Old June 24th, 2019, 12:28 PM   #4724
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Keppel Ave, Concord
Powells Creek Reserve, Concord West
Suttor St, Silverwater
Sydney Speedway

These are the only recent drill sites in that area. All other sites are either to the west or east. Line them all up and that seems to suggest Rydalmere is out. There’s been no recent drilling along a Rydalmere alignment.
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Old June 24th, 2019, 01:26 PM   #4725
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They don't seem to be drilling on the Pyrmont peninsula at all. Will be unbelievable if they do not include a station there.
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Old June 24th, 2019, 02:51 PM   #4726
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I thought some of those other spots (Pyrmont, Rydalmere) had drilling several months back, even last year.

Could it just be that everything is known about those spots, that’s required at this point in time, so there’s no need to drill there any more?

It doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve been ruled out.
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Old June 24th, 2019, 10:35 PM   #4727
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Those 4 spots are on an alignment way to the south of any Rydalmere alignment. Why would they suddenly start test drilling to the south of a Rydalmere alignment at this stage?

Also, this all suggests no final update until the final quarter of this year at the earliest.

We should have voted Labor. Construction would have already started plus with a swing via Sydney Uni.
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Old June 25th, 2019, 12:02 AM   #4728
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Old June 25th, 2019, 01:31 AM   #4729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimble View Post
Those 4 spots are on an alignment way to the south of any Rydalmere alignment. Why would they suddenly start test drilling to the south of a Rydalmere alignment at this stage?
Could they have found something that they didn't like at the other test sites?
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Old June 25th, 2019, 01:33 AM   #4730
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In Jodi McKay we trust.

(sarcasm)
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Old June 25th, 2019, 02:56 AM   #4731
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Quote:
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Could they have found something that they didn't like at the other test sites?
That's my guess. They're probably weighing up the cost/difficulty of going under Parramatta River at that point vs sticking to the south and going under the river further west. Maybe the drilling suggested they had to go deeper then planned to avoid the river basin.
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Old June 25th, 2019, 03:05 AM   #4732
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They aren't just comparing to potential alignments
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Old June 25th, 2019, 01:35 PM   #4733
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Quote:
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That's my guess. They're probably weighing up the cost/difficulty of going under Parramatta River at that point vs sticking to the south and going under the river further west. Maybe the drilling suggested they had to go deeper then planned to avoid the river basin.
I don't think the technical difficulty of the tunneling is an overriding concern for them. If the alignment is going south then its probably driven by higher goals - like development.
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Old June 25th, 2019, 02:31 PM   #4734
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Rydalmere is also too far north as well...would create a dog leg to get back to Parramatta. Camellia then Silverwater would be a better alignment.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 08:45 AM   #4735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
Just on the Victoria Road corridor. Someone commented that its a transport black hole. I'd comment that if your measure of "black hole" is "it takes longer than 45 minutes to get to the CBD" then most of Sydney is a public transport black hole.

And yes, there's places along the Victoria Road corridor that are pretty crap thanks to bus being the only option and said buses being ******* slow.

There's a lot that could be done about improved connections to the metro line and to the northern line and also improvements to the operation of the Northern line.

But I do agree that a heavy rail station at Top Ryde would help things. But it could be connected to Macquarie Park/something to the south. I think the idea of Parramatta via Top Ryde is dead as a Monty Python parrot.
there are alot of ways to improve the Carlingford/nth Parra to CBD via Gladesville / Top Ryde commute. the Easiest one would be a metro that would remove all the traffic from these roads as well as integrate infrastructure from hospitals, to shopping centres to schools whilst also removing the traffic jams from the roads. (this is the main aim of infra right, moving people not car parking them)??

If they go down the route of a maquarie to deep south it needs to go via Concord hospital and not hug Rhodes. Otherwise you are just duplicating the NorthernLine.

Another thing would be as i mentioned elsewhere create the Epping to Nth Strathfield link to be a shuttle train service along the same N1 link. as in get trains running faster than every 15 minutes (if it turns up at all) during peak or every 30 mins (if it turns up at all) outside of Peak.

Loads of options.Which i have to take stock and say Buses....not the answer. That will just pander to the traffic further, and still get you stuck in the pinch points whilst being a horrible horrible way to travel that causes nearly 1 person a trip to be sick when finally getting off the bus (they cant all be drunk or hungover)
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Old June 28th, 2019, 12:51 PM   #4736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBiggerBiggest View Post
there are alot of ways to improve the Carlingford/nth Parra to CBD via Gladesville / Top Ryde commute. the Easiest one would be a metro that would remove all the traffic from these roads as well as integrate infrastructure from hospitals, to shopping centres to schools whilst also removing the traffic jams from the roads. (this is the main aim of infra right, moving people not car parking them)??

If they go down the route of a maquarie to deep south it needs to go via Concord hospital and not hug Rhodes. Otherwise you are just duplicating the NorthernLine.

Another thing would be as i mentioned elsewhere create the Epping to Nth Strathfield link to be a shuttle train service along the same N1 link. as in get trains running faster than every 15 minutes (if it turns up at all) during peak or every 30 mins (if it turns up at all) outside of Peak.

Loads of options.Which i have to take stock and say Buses....not the answer. That will just pander to the traffic further, and still get you stuck in the pinch points whilst being a horrible horrible way to travel that causes nearly 1 person a trip to be sick when finally getting off the bus (they cant all be drunk or hungover)
You'll get no argument from me that buses suck. They suck particularly badly in peak hours and especially so when the bus enters of leaves the CBD in peak hours.

A bus trip from the typical Gladesville address to Town Hall takes 40 minutes in non peak hour. Pretty slack for 12 km. Even sometimes getting to Rozelle is painful.

But further west and north, it gets worse. So yeah, no argument from me that there is a problem. The real question is what is the best solution. Before looking at a CBD bound Victoria Road metro, consider the other parts of the puzzle.

Sydney Metro is going to be a game changer once it is completed and provide a much faster path into the CBD. Particularly for those within the catchments (and by this I don't just mean walking, I mean bus catchment) of Macquarie University, Macquarie Park and North Ryde stations. A frequent metro train and frequent feeder buses opens up a large area.

Similarly the corridor served by the Northern line stations ought to be well served. With frequent feeder buses connecting a frequent train service. This corridor incidentally would include Top Ryde.

So, if you mentally subtract these areas, what are you left with? I would argue its really Gladesville on down through Drumoyne and even possibly Rozelle. Even with Drumoyne it would make sense to take a bus to the Five dock Metro West station and go from there. Also, I hope there will be bus routes that feed Metro West's "White Bay" station. For a lot of people, getting onto the metro is going to be far preferable to staying on a bus into (or out of) the CBD. In fact I'd really like to see as many CBD-seeking buses as possible scrapped in favour of transfer to a metro.

Now, if I were going to have a north-south metro then it would be nice to connect Macquarie Park. No, that's not absolutely essential, but if you did build one then Top Ryde is possibly a good location in terms of shortening bus routes. Yes I know the present routes/ stops are shit, but that doesn't prevent you from doing it right, either.

Does this duplicate the Northern line? No, not entirely. But nor is it a high priority for me. There are other north-south lines I feel are higher priority. I'll explain more in a bit.

As for the northern line, you can take the T9 concept to its logical limit and create an entirely isolated sector out of the northern line and the north shore line. You do not need to have long distance T1 trains proceed through to the north shore. Why? Because with the introduction of Metro West a lot of people are going to find its quicker to change in the CBD between Metro West and Sydney Metro anyhow. In other words, the present T1 pattern of going through Wynyard and using the Bridge will eventually become largely obsolete. This leads to the conclusion of turning T1 into what is essentially a long distance service for stations west of Blacktown and having those trains terminate at Central.

Now think about what this does to the Northern line. Its no longer interdependent with T1 or all the indirect interdependcies that drives. You can treat it like its a metro, using Waratah 2s. Run all stops trains (that express between Burwood and Redfern). You end up with a high frequency turn up and go service that's also faster and gives a vastly better service to Epping and all the stations south of Epping. Its with that in mind that the idea of a north-south metro to Macquarie Park is a lower priority, for me.

Now, what is a priority for me? Connecting Parramatta to Sydney Metro in the north, either at Norwest or at Castle Hill. What I've proposed is to electrify the line to Picton and create an independent and fast line (130 km/hr rolling stock) that runs from Picton to Norwest, via Campbelltown, Liverpool and Parramatta. That's the big north south metro Sydney needs as a priority.

That allows access to Sydney Metro stations (such as Macquarie Park) from places like Cabramatta that at present is prohibitively slow by public transport. It also adds multiple paths, taking load off the Richmond line via Blacktown and the Northern line via Strathfield.

But the main advantage in all of this is allowing the Northern line to operate efficiently and at high frequency and thus speed up access everywhere along the Northern line corridor - and by this I mean anyone within a 10-15 minute bus trip from Northern line stations.

As for Gladesville, simply being able to take a bus and then interchange at White Bay would be a huge improvement for many people. I've done this bus trip a number of times btw and its the bit near the CBD that really sucks. Yes, Victoria Road itself can get slow, but its when you get to Rozelle that things get horrible. Oh and I presume that the Worstconnex bypass will help that section somewhat (probably at the expense of making things worse in Drumoyne, but yeah)..
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Old June 30th, 2019, 06:05 AM   #4737
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Latest geotechnical site is at various locations on Alexandra Avenue and Park Parade, Westmead from 02/07 for up to two weeks.

Last edited by Jabbawookie; June 30th, 2019 at 06:57 AM.
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Old June 30th, 2019, 07:10 AM   #4738
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Here's my own wishful thinking.

Considering the cost being touted now potentially going northwards of $20B and the test drilling sites having everyone guessing as to the final path this Metro will take, what are the chances that this project will be a quad tunnel project?

4 tunnels comprising of:
  • Twin express tunnels with just 3 stops: Sydney CBD, SOP, Parramatta CBD before a future extension southwest to WSA
  • Twin local tunnels with the 10 stops along the path between the 2 CBDs interchanging at SOP halfway between

Sydney CBD to Parramatta CBD now becomes a very short 10 minute journey. WSA (eventually) becomes more competitive as an option for people in the Eastern Harbour City.

At the very least, with my very limited knowledge, intuition tells me they are investigating all options including the above.
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Old June 30th, 2019, 09:40 AM   #4739
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Quote:
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Here's my own wishful thinking.

Considering the cost being touted now potentially going northwards of $20B and the test drilling sites having everyone guessing as to the final path this Metro will take, what are the chances that this project will be a quad tunnel project?

4 tunnels comprising of:
  • Twin express tunnels with just 3 stops: Sydney CBD, SOP, Parramatta CBD before a future extension southwest to WSA
  • Twin local tunnels with the 10 stops along the path between the 2 CBDs interchanging at SOP halfway between

Sydney CBD to Parramatta CBD now becomes a very short 10 minute journey. WSA (eventually) becomes more competitive as an option for people in the Eastern Harbour City.

At the very least, with my very limited knowledge, intuition tells me they are investigating all options including the above.
Those who read this thread regularly will recall that the quad tunnel idea was one I put forward some time ago.
Why? Because tunnels are relatively cheap at around $70M per km. Whereas stations are expensive and stations with extra platforms for express stopping patterns especially so.

If I recall correctly, what I ended up with is a proposal for additional tunnels between Parramatta and White Bay. So express trains could skip all stations between those. That would lead to a roughly 12 minute transit between Parramatta and the CBD. (A bit under 11 minutes is possible with 160 km/hr rolling stock).

You could also go further and build 4 platforms into the Parramatta station box. That way you have flexibility over which trains do what. For instance you could have airport trains run to Parramatta and then (semi) express to the CBD and you could have other trains that turn back at Parramatta (or even continue one more stop to Blacktown). The possibilities are endless. Which perhaps explains some of the delay.

Of course, you pay for this with longer intervals at the minor stations and in order to keep an even and predictable "turn up and go" service you need to essentially interleave express trains with all stops trains on a 1 to 1 basis. It also limits the number of stations between the airport and Parramatta.

One other benefit is that there's no longer the constraint on numbers of stations on the non-express path. Which means you're free to add more local stations.

I somehow doubt that they are doing this. But if they do, I'll be gloating insufferably
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Old June 30th, 2019, 02:56 PM   #4740
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what are the chances that this project will be a quad tunnel project?
0.1%
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