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Old June 12th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #61
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Congratulations on getting this going. I just hope it makes the distance ... you have a line ending at Bondi Junction that really ought to go somewhat further
from my understanding, the reason why the bondi junction line has never gone any further is because the yocals on the eastern beaches are afraid of the "riff-raff" that a train line would bring in so the majority of residents are opposed. i think the cronulla issues (the only beach with a train station) re-affirmed their position (because less-than-desirables from the outer suburbs were "invading" "their" beach). it's the same for residents on the northern beaches, they just don't want a train line even if it will make journeys much much shorter.

both the eastern and northern beaches population keeps growing and the car/bus routes are both clogged so is it time that the yocals were steam-rolled and forced to have train lines for the good of everyone else? i think that this will be unlikely, why would a government spend loads of money on something that is not really desired even if it is necessary?

i've seen some good proposals for trainline extensions that would really boost public transport in these areas.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 07:13 AM   #62
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I hear you! Steamroll the train lines into the northern beaches/lower north shore and eastern Sydney! Arrogant ignorant idiots that live in these areas shouldn't reject proposals because of their misinformed uneducated rhetoric. This is one reason why I'm happy to live in the inner west. We don't live next to obnoxious morons with hostile and ugly opinions. We actually embrace public transport and other modes of transport and are welcoming to everyone! As far as I'm concerned, it's impossible to qualify for the "best suburb" if you don't have vital public transport modes and a pro-public transport mentality. Buses don't count because they're noisy and irritating. As a result, Mosman and Vaucluse are therefore more shittier than Bankstown, while every suburb in the inner west wins the best suburb polling!

Glad to see the north-west proposals are still alive.

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Old June 12th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #63
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I hear you! Steamroll the train lines into the northern beaches/lower north shore and eastern Sydney! Arrogant ignorant idiots that live in these areas shouldn't reject proposals because of their misinformed uneducated rhetoric. This is one reason why I'm happy to live in the inner west. We don't live next to obnoxious morons with hostile and ugly opinions. We actually embrace public transport and other modes of transport and are welcoming to everyone! As far as I'm concerned, it's impossible to qualify for the "best suburb" if you don't have vital public transport modes and a pro-public transport mentality. Buses don't count because they're noisy and irritating. As a result, Mosman and Vaucluse are therefore more shittier than Bankstown, while every suburb in the inner west wins the best suburb polling!

Glad to see the north-west proposals are still alive.

Next?
I don't think anyone would complain about a line under Military Road, including most Mosman residents. The buses are more than convenient but of course a train would be preferred. Military road is clogged with traffic at peak hour and on hot days (beach goers) but the buses do a fantastic job. I can get into the city with incredible speed on a bus, can take less than 10 minutes sometimes. Tell me how the hell can you get into the city from Bankstown in 10 minutes without ripping the skin off your body in some partical accelerator? Given the option of living in Mosman or Bankstown (if money was no object) I think most would make a very clear choice.

Many want rail options but getting a line over the spit is a near impossibility, not just for with million dollar homes at seaforth but also the extreme costs and engineering problems associated with it. The tunnels would have to be very deep and the viaduct just wont happen. You also forget Mosman, Cremorne (well not atm... terminal sank), Neutral Bay, etc have ferries!
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:09 AM   #64
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Avatar, there's The Cityrail Whinge Thread for you to whinge. Take it there.

Also

1. There's Old Cremorne wharf for those at Cremorne
2. The OSCAR's are an improvment on the Millenniums. Much smoother ride.
3. Alot of the V-sets still have the orange windows.


When you look at this project combined with the Epping -Chatswood line, new harbour crossing and the South West rail link, were starting to see a metro taking shape. The combined lines will enable commuters to travel from one end of the city to other. It's semi orbital.

I'd be good if they built a link from Rouse Hill through the western suburbs such as Blacktown, Wetherill Park, and Hoxton Park down to Bringelly (where the south west branch line will end)
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:24 AM   #65
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LOL it was half a joke you know, as if City Rail care about the gold windows but i do think the oscars are ugly.

It will be great to get these new lines in, I just wish they could fast track all of them.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 02:01 PM   #66
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Quote:
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from my understanding, the reason why the bondi junction line has never gone any further is because the yocals on the eastern beaches are afraid of the "riff-raff" that a train line would bring in so the majority of residents are opposed.
The Wran Government killed the ESR to Kingsford in 1976 for cost reasons. It has never seriously been considered to complete it since, so residents' reactions are completely unknown. But I couldn't see many people travelling from Nine Ways Kingsford to the city on it because the bus would be much, much faster.

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both the eastern and northern beaches population keeps growing and the car/bus routes are both clogged so is it time that the yocals were steam-rolled and forced to have train lines for the good of everyone else?
My recollection is that the highest population of the Municipality of Waverley was recorded at the 1948 census.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #67
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With the majority of inner and middle suburbs, dwelling density may be on the rise, but population often remains steady due to shrinking household sizes. In some cases, outer suburbs have similar population densities as inner city areas due to the larger number of families with children in the outer burbs.

Hence, lots of apartment buildings going up in the inner and middle burbs give the illusion the population is climbing, while it may not actually be the case if you look at it from a long term perspective.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #68
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Quote:
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My recollection is that the highest population of the Municipality of Waverley was recorded at the 1948 census.
Could it be that all those backpackers, uni students and short term residents don't bother filling out those census surveys?

Unless the boundary has shifted somewhat.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #69
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Quote:
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My recollection is that the highest population of the Municipality of Waverley was recorded at the 1948 census.
And Pyrmonts highest population was during the late 1800's but I can tell you that it is booming!
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Old June 13th, 2007, 03:09 AM   #70
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LOL it was half a joke you know, as if City Rail care about the gold windows but i do think the oscars are ugly.

It will be great to get these new lines in, I just wish they could fast track all of them.
Same. It's going too slow. How long has this been in planning for - 2 years now.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 10:11 AM   #71
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Could it be that all those backpackers, uni students and short term residents don't bother filling out those census surveys?
Short term residents I'd expect would. Backpackers perhaps not. But the census is conducted in July/August so, numbers will be down anyway.

Quote:
Unless the boundary has shifted somewhat.
I don't think the council amalgamations in 1949 had much of an effect on that council. Otherwise the only other change has been to increase the size by about three blocks block in Bondi Junction.

But smeghead has the right idea - more dwellings, less children and overall fewer people. There's no particular reason, therefore, for increased traffic - the public transport capacity of the area is similar now with the Eastern Suburbs Railway than then with toastrack trams.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 03:12 AM   #72
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^ except that private vehicle ownership is probably higher than ever before.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 06:54 AM   #73
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And also the average age of residents in the area probably would have risen, meaning more people are legally able to drive.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 09:06 AM   #74
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^ except that private vehicle ownership is probably higher than ever before.
and? They can still catch the bus. It's not an unviable option by any means. Trunk bus services are organised better today than a mesh-like system that was introduced with the demise of the trams.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #75
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Back to the North West Rail Link. One of the best changes to infrastructure to come from the latest report is to redesign the round-about at the intersection of Hillsong, Norwest Shops, Brookhollow Drive and Norwest Blvd and make it a traffic light intersection. Whoever designed the one main road in and out of Norwest was not thinking long term. It is a bloody joke. I think this redesign should help congestion.
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Old June 18th, 2007, 07:40 AM   #76
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I found this on the net, can any of you guys tell me a bit more about it?

http://www.maunsell.com/MarketsAndSe...2/34/index.jsp
Paramatta Rail Link
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

The Parramatta Rail Link will be the biggest single extension to the Sydney rail network since 1864. The major features of the project are 28km of twin track railway incorporating 20km of bored tunnels, a cut and cover tunnel beneath the Lane Cove River, 12 stations and connections to the existing Rail Network at Epping and Chatswood.



Maunsell have provided a broad range of technical advisory services for the planning, environmental impact statements (EIS), geotechnical advice, technical guidance and expertise. Contract documentation and tender evaluation required to progress the scheme from concept to the award of contract.



Tender and contract documentation included the production of a reference design of all underground railway disciplines including, for fixed infrastructure, permanent way, signalling and control systems, traction power supply and OHW, communications, stations, tunnels and tunnel ventilation.



As the Technical Advisor, Maunsell were responsible for developing the technical and operational objectives with the project stakeholders, State Rail Authority (SRA), Rail Infrastructure Corporation (RIC) and Transport NSW. Maunsell provided advice and guidance in rail operations, maintenance, underground fire and life safety, reliability and availability planning as well as patronage forecasting and inter-model transport planning.



Maunsell are responsible for various ongoing technical advisor services including elements of tender evaluation, design and construction approval and commissioning of the railway.
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Old June 18th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #77
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It's split into two projects - Epping-Chatswood and Epping-Parramatta. The latter is on indefinite hiatus because of its dubious cost-benefit ratio. The former is scheduled to open in about a year.
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Old June 18th, 2007, 09:19 AM   #78
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With the constuction of the line, they will take into consideration that the line to Parramatta could be (really it should be) built.

The Carr/Iemma government don't understand the importance of extending the line out to Parramatta. It takes over an hour to get there by bus or train, and this line could halve it. They always forget the line between Carlingford and Rosehill. and could utlize what is an underutilised line at present.
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Old June 18th, 2007, 11:21 AM   #79
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It doesn't make any difference if you go from city to parramatta even if you built the parramatta to epping line. All it does is reduce the 'bottlenecks' because the lines between Granville and Central station are so unreliable. It was meant to reduce frequency, not increase it.

What was the last time you rode the Carlingford line? It's ridiculously low density and most of the stations are surrounded by industrial areas? I don't often see blue collar workers using the stations to and from work. Car mentality through and through.

Plus, you have the 545 buses from Parramatta to Eastwood. then Chatswood. I'm sure there are more services between Northern line and Parramatta.

Let's first build new public transport in areas which doesn't exist, then think about duplicating multiple services.
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Old June 18th, 2007, 01:06 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Let's first build new public transport in areas which doesn't exist, then think about duplicating multiple services.
Name me a place where there is no public transport and you (reasonably) expect us to 'build public transport'. You would be hard pressed finding such a place in the Sydney metro area and possibly the entire Syd-New-Wng conurbation.

Parramatta Rail Link does a lot more than simply serve travel between two points - and that is the problem when people consider such a project in isolation. You forget that when travel times are slashed in half and made over 95% reliable it opens up so many travel opportunities on the PT network that didn't exist because of the unreliability and slowness of the 545 services.

Building the Parramatta Rail Link would go a long way to addressing the imbalance in employment accessibility in Western Sydney, as well as addressing the higher education accessibility imbalance.

Areas along the proposed railway line:
- Rosehill Racecourse
- UWS, Parra Campus + Rydalmere Industrial Area
- Dundas (not much there but has potential fo consolidation)
- Telopea (dense, low socio-economic housing)
- Carlingford (High density development + Carlingford Court Shopping Centre + takes significant pressure of Epping from commuters driving to the station)

Let me ad something to this:
Parramatta Rail Link is not a silver bullet - just as building a single road is not a silver bullet. What it is, however, is a costly piece of the PT network that needs to be built. Lest costly and less conspicuous improvements such as massive increases in bus services, frequencies, operating hours and route directness all need to be carried out to complete the puzzle.

Last edited by crazyknightsfan; June 18th, 2007 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Added last bit
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