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Old February 6th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #321
windowsoftheworld
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The fact that the US air force failed to intercept 4 passenger airliners is a give away in itself.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 01:00 AM   #322
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Is it real-world, or exercise? That is the question...
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Old February 6th, 2013, 01:14 AM   #323
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Old February 6th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
7 WTC on fire, midday September 11
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-tractatus/
Wow, that's an incredible photo Eric. I had no idea that the fire on 7WTC was that big! I'll have to remember it next time I get into an argument with one of my classmates about it. Thanks!
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Old February 6th, 2013, 04:00 AM   #325
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A bit more retaliation than I expected... but I've got time.

It fell generally downwards, yes, but not in its footprint. The Fiterman Hall was damaged by what, then? What covered the streets around it, if not WTC7?


A neat footprint?

How was 7WTC supposed to fall? It was not a concrete building that would break unevenly. It was made of many steel pieces screwed together, pulling eachother down. You can see this with the pattern of glass breakage.

There's no way they could have been intercepted. There were only 14 military jets in the entire US air. The nearest civilian plane was miles away, and there was no way to tell which one was hijacked. A bunch of phone calls from the air traffic, mixed with other mix-ups and false identification of other aircraft, with the possibility of them not even crashing it as well, made the task impossible. There was no way they could have intercepted any of them. Plus they would have only, what, an hour to do so?
The government had only ever intercepted one aircraft before 9/11. And that was a small personal plane...

Something I've always found strange, even when I was a truther myself, was how some complained about the government 'shooting down' flight 93 and then complained that the government couldn't shoot down the other three.
Not like any of that was the case to begin with.

Hey Lanier, just search up 'WTC7 South face' for more pics, or WTC7 east side for pics of the fire itself.
[img]http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQojrHY6AW-MF4jZX9nK0TmEjEzvVlI5G-wYTLn12h3bnxNfXyTqA[/img]

The windows were something like 4 feet tall
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Last edited by ThatOneGuy; February 6th, 2013 at 04:20 AM.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 04:15 AM   #326
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Alright, will do. Great pics once more.

I know considerably less about the collapse of 7WTC than the Twins, and that post really helped me get a vivid idea of what exactly happened. I am aware that you have put in countless hours researching this, and I know I can trust what you have to say. Again, thanks.

Last edited by L.A.F.2.; February 6th, 2013 at 04:20 AM.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 05:01 AM   #327
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That is essentially a neat footprint when the structure in question is 600 ft tall and that street is roughly 15 meters wide. It's amazing it didn't topple and collapsed on neighboring buildings entirely. If the cause was indeed a fire and it was spreaded unevenly, meaning it weakened some of the columns, then there should have been some sort of topplage and a more affected area with a chuck of building on top of it, not little pieces of it as if it were made of playdough. A demolition is the only thing capable of bringing a building to pieces in such a manner.


As for the planes, there were a million opportunities to intercept them. A boeing 767 speed tops at roughly 530 mph compared to a military jet (1,320 mph), and in 9/11 they were roaming freely for more than over an hour with extensive supervision from traffic control. You do the math. NORAD had also been intensely trained for events like 9/11 but coincidentally, they utterly failed to do their job on 9/11.
You'd have to be really oblivious to believe the government wasn't extremely shady on 9/11 and the years prior to it.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 05:43 AM   #328
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The street I showed you was in the opposite direction to the direction it toppled (to the south) and since the southern part of the pile was mixed with the twin tower debris, it's hard to tell where the pile started and finished. The north side had a lot of debris for the building falling in the opposite direction. (If the building to the west of WTC7 was not thick brick/concrete, and a net design, it may have been in severe danger of falling, too.)

As for the size of the pile, take into account that most of WTC7 (like the twin towers) was air, so the size of the pile is not always dependent on the height. The towers were designed to use as little steel as possible with their tube design. Lots of the steel also fell into the basement levels, making the pile appear shorter. Also the north wall crushed down a lot of the pile, made it look more compressed.
Many different explanations...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rhY9c_iemA
That video (around 7:40) shows the steel parapet wall warping downwards before the collapse or the start of dust clouds even begin. Unlike demolitions, where strong blasts of smoke and debris are seen before the collapse starts.

The trapezoid shape pointing south also influenced the direction it fell, alongside the damage to the south. The obtuse angled south walls provided less support than the acute north corners.

As for the interception thing, it doesn't really disprove anything I said. Norad dealt with overseas threats, and it had only intercepted one domestic aircraft, which was rogue since the passengers and pilots died from hypoxia, and a big difference was they they actually saw the aircraft. The hijacked passenger planes were not identified as easily as you think and they were in no ways ready. Remember, there were 14 of them in the entire US airspace, and they were many miles away from the closest airplane. After 9/11 Norad included the US airspace as an important patrol area.

In what ways were they shady? A subjective term, if you ask me.

If I may ask for some answers, too, like, why were there no bomb fragments found? How was an entire skyscraper rigged without being noticed by any workers? How did they hide the wiring, drill holes, and cut the beams without any reports at all? It's an incredibly laborious task to rig a lowrise without even hiding it, how did they do it for a crowded office building? Why did they speculate WTC7 was going to fall, and then clear the area, showing this on live television? Who set the bombs up? How? Where are the explosions? How were the bomb planters paid off, how much? Where did that money come from, or go? Nobody could answer these.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #329
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Show me, because to this day, all the debris i've seen laid at the footprint of the building itself. But feel free to prove otherwise.

As to the building being air, i see that a lot. Most buildings nowadays are mostly air indeed, in order to provide a good amount of office space. However, that is not a excuse for a building to disintegrate to pieces. One thing doesn't connect to the other. Also, WTC 7 Collapse Chandler Debunked? Lol give yourself a break and stop watching videos on youtube.

As for the interception, of course i disproved you. You said there was absolutely no way for them to intercept the airliners, when indeed they had/were a lot of ways to stop these airlines or at least the ones that hit the south tower and Pentagon for christ sake. The country was at full alert yet they mysteriously failed and forgot to do their job on the day their country needed them most? I don't think so. The US has the most organized military on Earth. Don't give me "oh they were confused" bullshit please, it's insulting.

As for your question, i do not have the answers. I am not an all rich and powerful government who can pull of anything they plan, if i were, i would not be here having this argument with you.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:49 AM   #330
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But I did show you... it covered the entire northern street and the building behind it. It merged with the Twin Towers debris pile. How far do you want the debris to be?

Eh, most truthers become truthers from youtube. I know I did. Ancient Aliens was on youtube. Loose Change is on youtube. All that moon handing/JFK stuff thrives on youtube. The difference is that debunking videos don't make money from views.
Give myself a break? With all due respect, you are the one attempting to prove the government of killing 3000 people in supernatural ways.

What do you mean by disintegrate to pieces? The collapsing interior pulled down the external walls, towards south. What would stop them from doing so? (Remember the penthouse collapse and the steel warping before the full collapse, the leaning reported by firefighters)


They didn't 'forget' to do their job. (word manipulation, nice tactic) They were unable to due to so much uncertainty. No plane can simply be tracked and immediately identified in less than an hour. They were in the NYC, Boston area, with several large international airports, Tuesday morning, who knows how many planes there were in the skies that day? Look at interviews with the people in charge of that, Norman Mineta for example.
Also, don't give me smartass retorts, please, you're the one with the theories.

What would have happened if they did shoot down four passenger planes filled with hundreds of innocent people?

And I realize you don't have answers. I didn't really expect them, actually. Isn't 911 truth's motto "Ask Questions?" That implies you don't need to give or listen to answers. See, I too, was just asking questions. What made you so sure it was a demolition? There were no bomb fragments found, no explosions heard, nothing. Where are they? Where's your evidence? How does it match to the scenario? It doesn't add up.

I'd also like to note that every government conspiracy ever exposed was never theorized before its information was officially released to the public.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 08:10 AM   #331
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Clearly you were a truther because of youtube and now you're not one because of the same reason. So yes, give yourself a break.

I will not argue about this any longer.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 09:36 AM   #332
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Sorry to stir up stuff like the previous posts after my post but I feel betwixt and between about all of this...I can't imagine how all of that day could have been a conspiracy ! Really how could the Government work with the terrorists to do a neat job...set up explosives inside the WTC while everyone did their usual days work. How could all these years go by and no one who did all that work stay quiet ?...all too crazy.....but the bit I wonder about is phone calls after the fact...the plane hits about here we have two huge buildings stuffed so bad and an enormous cost to rig up scaffolds and demolish parts and rebuild so much...way more than 1995 ! then WTC 7....that smoke pic wasn't the entire building burning...just how smoke would envelope the south side while burning...black smoke..so not so hot...a steel building...something is not right here but I don't see the whole deal as a big conspiracy just people making decisions as the day unfolded.....maybe ?
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Old February 6th, 2013, 09:48 PM   #333
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Like I said, I've learned to trust facts more than the rhetoric given by the truth movement.

It's a myth that the fires were not hot. Black smoke is caused by burning plastics (desks, computers, carpets) and also some black smoke from the twin towers came from the jet fuel (although the burning fuel did very little damage, most of it came from the fires afterwards)
A burning car leaves dark black smoke, even after the gasoline burns out.
In WTC 1/2, the fires were so hot and massive that 200-300 or so people jumped to their deaths, even in the acre-wide floor areas. You can see throughout the course of that day that the fires in WTC7 increased gradually, to the point that the firefighter group was pulled to prevent a further loss of life. The non-blown off fireproofing helped a bit for WTC7, allowing it to stand far longer than the twin towers, but the lack of firefighting proved fatal for the tower.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowsoftheworld View Post
I will not argue about this any longer.
Good.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 07:15 AM   #335
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I think it is better to just let 9/11 pass into history. Move on. It happened, and whatever way it happened wont change anything or bring anyone back.....RIP
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Old February 8th, 2013, 07:20 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meh_cd View Post
Good.
Unnecessary.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 04:15 AM   #337
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[img]http://oi50.************/era49j.jpg[/img]


Fiterman Hall was one of the buildings condemned due to damage. (Now replaced by this red brick building)

image hosted on flickr

(pic by Roadcruiser on skyscraperpage)

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; February 15th, 2013 at 05:36 AM.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #338
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And it looks even worse than the original building. A true accomplishment. I mean, look at it. Those aren't real bricks. Those are faux-brick panels that last time I saw did not even line up correctly.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #339
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Old February 16th, 2013, 01:36 AM   #340
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Yeah, they were sloppy. I think if they indented the windows, it would have looked much better, also. They should have included the originally planned logo on the blank wall to distract from the poor facade.

At least the red brick adds some balance to the glassy area (It looks much better than that beige and grey building to the right)
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