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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:42 AM   #181
BobDaBuilder
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Well done Inter on another Scudetto. That showed those jackals!
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 02:54 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioe View Post
I think the poor attendances of Serie A are mostly due to the poor stadium infrastructure. When they had a few new or newly renovated stadiums at the beginning of the 90ies they had the highest attendances of any european league.
This season they are only in 4th place (last season even 5th).
In the 90s they had the best league in the world as well, now it's comparitively poor (and generally not brilliant to watch in my humble opinion), so no wonder people aren't going watching.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 06:45 AM   #183
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We have ourselves a parrot. You are just repeating what some (British journos) have voiced. Inter could well have smashed Liverpool had they not had a player sent off at an early part of their game in the UCL. After that, who knows how far they could have gone and that on top of the mountain of injuries they had sustained.

When you see English players and coaches going to Serie A and succeeding, then we will talk.

Tactically, Italy is still significantly stronger than the EPL.

Also, if the English league is so 'great' how come it has taken a decade for one of their teams to win the UCL?

p.s. I assume the English league is what you were refering to.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:07 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
Also, if the English league is so 'great' how come it has taken a decade for one of their teams to win the UCL?
In the last 10 years English clubs have won it 3 times and were losing finalists 3 times.

Last edited by carlspannoosh; May 23rd, 2008 at 09:20 AM. Reason: 3 rather than 2 losing finalists when including this years final.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 03:50 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
Tactically, Italy is still significantly stronger than the EPL.
Cattanacio?

Granted, the English game features a number of clubs trying to play styles they're ill-equipped to play, but at least the EPL isn't 20 teams trying to out-defend each other to a 1-0 victory. Plus the Premiership and German Bundesliga feature aggressive play across the field such that players traditionally have less time on the ball compared to their Spanish and Italian counterparts. Your best examples of this are Ruud Van Nistlerooy and Andriy Schevchenko (sp?): The former moves from the EPL to La Liga and is finding tons of space such that he looks like a kid again, while the latter comes to the EPL from Serie A and can't get a shot off save the occasional garbage goal. Extreme examples? Yes, but indicative of overall themes. What EPL teams and players lack in flashy ball skill is both the product of and conducive to the more aggressive style played in England.

To wit, it's disingenuous to call one style "tactically" superior to the other.

Quote:
Also, if the English league is so 'great' how come it has taken a decade for one of their teams to win the UCL?
Discount Madrid (bolstered via government support of old), The big 3 in Italy (benefactors of heavily imbalanced revenue systems) and Barca and what's left? Nothing else that would indicate the EPL teams are lacking or inferior, to be sure. Now consider the EPL's best have done plenty well against those big name teams all along. Inter could have beaten Pool, but they didn't did they? Twice! Milan could've beaten Arsenal... but didn't.

Even the fans of the Milan teams and Juve admit they judge their team based on European success, viewing the Scudetto with less respect because they know it's always going to be the same few teams competing. (Save this year! Hooray for Milan missing out on the CL! ) Thus it's easier for those teams to concentrate on European matches versus EPL clubs who traditionally view the priorities as:
1) League
2) Europe
3) FA Cup
(Carling Cup is around #14 or so! )

Bottom line, league superiority is tenuous to discern at best, and cyclical anyway. Serie A was once great and may be so again someday, but anyone affirming that's a better league right now is lacking something or being a homer.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 05:38 PM   #186
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BobDaBuilder - I agree with you about British coaches needing to move to Serie A but you're wrong about the Inter/Liverpool tie. Liverpool were far superior against Inter even before Materazzi got sent off. Over the two legs the best side went through and the sending's off only gave Mancini an excuse to use afterwards. The Inter team were too old and too slow to cope with the likes of Gerrard, Mascherano, Babel and Torres. If the truth be known Liverpool weren't even at their best during either game.

I'm not slating Inter as they are a great club with a great team but over the two legs against Liverpool they were completely outplayed. Just as Milan were against Arsenal.

(Apologies for going/staying off topic)
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Old May 24th, 2008, 03:53 AM   #187
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serie a is probably comparable to the french league now.National team are still good though
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Old May 24th, 2008, 03:56 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
^

Hang on where did the money the FA got to stump up for the land at Wembley come from? It was the government.
no it wasn't dude it was a massive bank loan from a german bank
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Old June 25th, 2008, 11:31 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Hey Bob, leave some arrows for the rest of us, will ya?!!!

I think the issue in Italy is one part facilities, one part culture, and one part perception and priorities. The culture issue I define as the clubs' struggles to distinguish the average fans from the more brash and sometimes violent ultras. Perhaps also as a side effect of the stadium issue, the clubs haven't been successful in cultivating the fan experience the way the other big nations have, still treating the crowds with the same cavalier attitude as the English did before the Taylor report. Perhaps if the teams were required to own their own facilities they'd put more thought into this.

The priorities issue is based on my perception (learned over time) that Italians value the success of their national team and the success of their big teams in European cups far more than the average Serie A contest. There isn't quite the pride or energy for middling teams trying to do the best they can, and if your team isn't in line for the scudetto then it's all about how you do in Europe or in qualifying for Europe. Everything else is a very distant 3rd or 4th in priority. Personally I find it disappointing, but that's just me.

i know you said this a while back, but here goes

in the mid eighties serie A averaged more of less 40,000 similar to the bundesliga, when pay-tv came in, a distiction wasn't made between live games and tv games, therefore, when given the choice of the two as alternatives, which aren't different 9/10 people would choose to stay at home and watch its simple, the fact that the clusb don't cater for the fans is also pandemic, probems could be easily solved with common sense.

also on the liverpool thing, at heysel juventus had double the amount of fans there than liverpool, it's all swings and roundabouts, as i said in italy now, watching telly is a viable alternative to going to the game, and until that changes attendances will decline!
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Old June 25th, 2008, 11:57 PM   #190
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It really is a shame how Serie A has declined and the really sad thing about all of this is that many of the problems causing the decline of the league could be so easily solved and that secondly nothing seems to be done at the moment to solve these problems, the stadium infrastructure of Serie A is terrible and at the moment is on a par with many eastern European nations but the difference being that they are actually building and renovating their stadiums and soon Italy will have among the worst stadiums in Europe. I’m wondering if anyone can explain to me why nothing seems to be happening in Italy regarding their stadiums surely it cant be down to a lack of money?
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Old June 26th, 2008, 03:36 AM   #191
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^

It's not that bad.

You can get in and see these incredibly talented famous clubs for less than half what it costs in England and you can just about ALWAYS get a ticket.

In England it is stuffed. You cannot just say to your friends, looks good outside. How about lets pop down and watch Arsenal or Chelsea.

In Milan, Turin or Rome you can get on the Vespa and head out for a game of calcio.

Give me Italy over England's elitist mentality anyday.

Sure why not have it on tv too. If you have other plans and you cannot go to a match because you are having friends over or whatever you can still catch the match like you can put the radio on. But seeing we are practically in the 2nd decade of the 21st century it makes sense that the games are all available for the tv watcher.

Anyhow, if the English league is so good how come English players are useless when they come to Italy? Luther Blisset, Paul Gascoigne, Jimmy Greaves are just a few examples of 'rubbish bins' that have tried and failed playing Serie A.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 03:38 AM   #192
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easy answer. Stadia in Italy are owned by the cities and not by clubs. That's the point. Hopefully in next 5 years things should change, Premiership is the example to follow to renew Serie A.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 04:23 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
^

It's not that bad.

You can get in and see these incredibly talented famous clubs for less than half what it costs in England and you can just about ALWAYS get a ticket.

In England it is stuffed. You cannot just say to your friends, looks good outside. How about lets pop down and watch Arsenal or Chelsea.

In Milan, Turin or Rome you can get on the Vespa and head out for a game of calcio.

Give me Italy over England's elitist mentality anyday.

Sure why not have it on tv too. If you have other plans and you cannot go to a match because you are having friends over or whatever you can still catch the match like you can put the radio on. But seeing we are practically in the 2nd decade of the 21st century it makes sense that the games are all available for the tv watcher.

Anyhow, if the English league is so good how come English players are useless when they come to Italy? Luther Blisset, Paul Gascoigne, Jimmy Greaves are just a few examples of 'rubbish bins' that have tried and failed playing Serie A.

bizarre logic that you think Italy is better because its easy to get in and it costs nothing. the more fans stay away, the better it is then..

Italy is in a big mess. they need to completly re-build their football doing mainly 3 things:
Get serious about getting rid of hooliganism.
Rebuild most stadiums
Share tv-income throughout the league.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 05:07 AM   #194
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<cough> <cough>

We are talking about Italy here. In an 'organized' 'normal world' you could do these things but in Italy it won't ever happen and that is why we love Italy.

I hope it never changes there. It is a refuge from the evils of the modern world, such as feminazis, fast food worship, over the top law enforcement, effective government etc..

If you want law and order and everything done perfectly on time go to Germany or Switzerland.

In Italy things are done somewhat differently and that is we love it!

To be on time in Italy is another form of slavery.

To break speed limits and road laws is liberation and freedom!

Also it is comforting to know that if you are ever convicted of something that it is possible to 'escape' penalty with a payment of a gratuity to an authority figure. Alas it is a world that has long since disapeared in the so called civilized world.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:45 AM   #195
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Italian stadiums didn't age well at all. The reconstruction for the 1990 World Cup produced a lot of white elephants.

The crowds are pathetic in Serie A. Even more so is the '% utilization' in stadia.

The commieblocks of the stadium world!
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:47 AM   #196
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italian stadiums are ugly and have athletics tracks
only san siro stands out
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:49 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
Don't tell me local councils, governments etc. in the UK don't make it easy for these clubs to build stadiums. They provide tax breaks, pave the way with simplified planning permissions. It all adds up as a potential cost.
Errrrrmmmmmmmmmm.........I don't know where to start with this one. Perhaps Brighton? Bristol? Everton? Twickenham residents? Even mighty Chelsea have come off second best with planning permission in the past.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 07:20 AM   #198
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San Siro vs. any stadium in England is a no contest. Give me Milan anytime. Keep those cramped stadiums only fit for dwarves in England.

Architecturally Meazza is stunning and original. Wembley is just a copy of Sydney's Homebush and Old Trafford is like something you would come across in a Reading Business Park. The rest are just McStadiums, quite fitting really considering England has become a country of chains. Chain shops, restaurants, coffee houses, chain sporting teams.

Next thing you will hear out of England is they will demolish Oxford st and Piccadilly(Mayfair) and turn it into a giant Westfield Shopping Town.

Even the royal family is based on Disneyland's antics.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 01:17 PM   #199
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Yes the San Siro in terms of character is far better off than many English stadiums are. But in terms of facilities most if not all top English clubs will offer far better facilities. And I’m not just talking about top clubs like AC Milan, AS Roma, Juventus etc. but what about the rest because whenever i see Italian stadiums on TV and I mean pretty much all of them they look extremely run down they have seats missing, no roof, temporary seating, Crumbling Exterior and so on.
Also 10-15 years ago the Italian League was the Premier League of its time with the cream of world talent going there to play their football but nowadays the Italian League is far behind the Spanish and English Leagues and it soon may be overtaken by the German league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasKing View Post
Italy is in a big mess. they need to completly re-build their football doing mainly 3 things:
Get serious about getting rid of hooliganism.
Rebuild most stadiums
Share tv-income throughout the league.
As far as I know from next season the TV deals will be shared and the rights will be sold for the division as a whole.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 03:02 PM   #200
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Olimpico in Rome lost +10k seats because of safety and new seats

Could we see the same at San Siro?
70-75k?
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