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Old October 8th, 2019, 01:30 PM   #15301
Mistogun
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i think all of you can stop arguing and just wait another 5-10 years, when all of the highrise projects around Moscow city are finished and the skyscrapers will fit organically in its surroundings. Dont forget, that they are build in a former industrial district, and the construction of skyscrapers started only 20 years ago (interrupted by the big financial crisis). Cities like London, Paris or Frankfurt had much more time to form a proper skyline.

So just give it time and it will look much less artifically, if you dont like it in the future, thats a fair subjective opinion, but for the skyline is just unfinished.
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Old October 8th, 2019, 03:08 PM   #15302
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But most of London, Paris and Frankfurt's skylines were built in the last 20 or 30 years.

20 years ago Canary Wharf had just 1 Canada Square and not much else, and the City of London had Tower 42 and a smattering of midrises. The rest of London had basically nothing.

Canary Wharf in 2000: https://www.mapsandantiqueprints.com...inald-Beer.jpg

City of London 2002ish (Gherkin was completed in 2003): http://www.skyscrapernews.com/city_night8-01.jpg
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Old October 8th, 2019, 05:20 PM   #15303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoses View Post
But most of London, Paris and Frankfurt's skylines were built in the last 20 or 30 years.

20 years ago Canary Wharf had just 1 Canada Square and not much else, and the City of London had Tower 42 and a smattering of midrises. The rest of London had basically nothing.

Canary Wharf in 2000: https://www.mapsandantiqueprints.com...inald-Beer.jpg

City of London 2002ish (Gherkin was completed in 2003): http://www.skyscrapernews.com/city_night8-01.jpg
Good point

Anyway Frankfurt and Paris La Defense clusters look quite dense even before 2000
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Old October 8th, 2019, 05:25 PM   #15304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoses View Post

20 years ago........the City of London had Tower 42 and a smattering of midrises. The rest of London had basically nothing.
When I was a kid in the 80's I was in awe of Tower 42 (we used to call it the Nat West Tower). I remember standing below it thinking that I had never seen such a big building. I was so proud of London's one and only skyscraper. Now it is barely noticeable!
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Old October 8th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #15305
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warsaw
16th skyscrapers u/c above 80m


pic by filosss
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Old October 8th, 2019, 09:23 PM   #15306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelferis View Post
I think it was a mistake for Milan to have made the three towers elsewhere than in the middle of Porta nuova.
The site now hosting CityLife was the seat of Milan's former exhibition complex. When the new exhibition complex was built in Rho, the site remained abandoned, with many old pavilions of the 1900s.



The ambition was to create a new working, residential, commercial and cultural centre. A large park with new landmarks: so, it was launched an international competition. Here are some proposals that were submitted:

Renzo Piano


Norman Foster, Frank Gehry, Rafael Moneo, Cino Zucchi, Richard Burdett


Jean Pierre Buffi, Antonio Citterio, Michel Desvigne, Anna Giorgi, Pier Luigi Nicolin, Ermanno Ranzani, Italo Rota


David Chipperfield, Dominique Perrault, Foreign Office Architects, S.O.M. London, Michele De Lucchi, SANAA, MVRDV, LAND, Aukett + Garretti, Buro Happold


But the winner project was that of the team including architects Isozaki, Libeskind and Hadid...the one that you can see today.



The project developed in Porta Nuova, instead, is the result of the recovering of a dismitted rail yard and abandoned areas. These sites constituted a wound in the heart of the city, between the two main rail stations, dividing the neighborhoods. It was preferred to create a mixed-use project with more pedestrian areas and a new park, integrating old and new, and not simple towers/skyscrapers built in the middle of the urban fabric, without offer nothing to the community.



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Old October 8th, 2019, 09:50 PM   #15307
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Warsaw | Warszawa
Poland

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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:28 AM   #15308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Parsifal View Post
About Milan - yes, it's kind of overrated, but it's still somewhat good. It's a 6.5-weak7/10 for me. I think I ranked it fairly at like the 8th position.

Milan's biggest problem IMO is the ludicrously giant spire on UniCredit.

The spire is like 90 meters long, while the structure itself is just 140 meters tall. It's ridiculous! The spire makes up 40% of the total height and basically 2/3rds (~65-66%) of the height of the building to the roof! Ridiculous.

Not even the currently U/C Varso Tower will have a spire this absurdly long, although quite a long one too.
Varso Tower will be 230 meters to the roof with an 80 meter spire on top (25% of the total height, 34% of the height to the roof).
In comparison, UniCredit is 140 meters tall with a 90 meter spire on top of that! Absolutely absurd.

IMO Milan's skyline would be FAR better if UniCredit had its spire cut in half or in 2/3rds. Much better.
Oh, really?

It's is 152 m tall (roof), 231 m (with the spire). But, such spire is a tribute to that of the city's famous Cathedral (108.5 m tall).


Duomo, Torre Velasca e Galleria Vittorio Emanuele by Alessandro




The highest spire of the Milan Cathedral, with the 4.15 m golden sculpture of the Virgin Mary on the top, has always been a symbol in the city' skyline to indicate people (even from a certain distance) where Piazza del Duomo, the cultural/social/commercial heart of the ancient city, was...





The same "job" does the spire of the UniCredit Tower: it indicates where the heart of the "modern city" is. The Piazza Gae Aulenti (with a 100 m diameter), indeed, has become the heart 'para excellence' of the modern Milan.


Torre Unicredit, Porta Nuova, Garibaldi by Alessandro






In the Italian tradition, the square a special role in architecture/urbanism. Nothing is left to chance when you design an icon
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Old October 9th, 2019, 09:53 AM   #15309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Parsifal View Post
I think it was pretty obvious why I mentioned them - as a further explanation of why Moscow has such a bad-looking and tawdry-looking skyline. No need to dive any deeper into this - perhaps you're the one trying too hard to find a deeper meaning here, not me.

I'll let this picture do my further legwork. No more arguments are required as I see it - this pic tells the whole story. If you think this looks good, or impressive - alright, whatever floats your boat. What isn't a matter of discussion though, what is objective, is the classification - does this skyline bear more resemblance to the skylines of cities such as Astana, or to the skylines of cities such as London, Frankfurt?

Moscow's skyscrapers are certainly big, but not very extensively spread out at all - it's literally just a few skyscrapers - a minimal amount. They think that what, like 5 skyscrapers that are 300-400 meters each are better than 15 skyscrapers that are 200 meters each.
And not to mention the fact that it's no feat - it's easier to pull off such big projects (in professional literature they are called "white elephant projects") when the government is involved in planning out and constructing skyscrapers for its own capital!
Moscow doesn't differ much in this case from some (relatively) smaller Chinese towns and cities in this regard! Or Dubai. Well, it's a bit of a stretch to liken Moscow to Dubai. Let's say Moscow is like Dubai on a big budget, with somewhat worse designs (though the designs and urban planning of Dubai is very similar to Moscow IBD - very artificial and tawdry).

I don't see a reason for that. Same as I don't see a reason for Dubai to occupy the top table of World or even Asian skylines.

PS: Your defense of "garishness" is quite hilarious.

Golly gee, what an astounding and bold skyline, innit??
What exactly is your point about it looking more like an Asian skyline than a European one? So what? Russia does straddle both continents, you know.

Why should Moscow resemble London or Frankfurt? For what reason? Why should London resemble anywhere else either? As I said earlier, my own personal taste means that I prefer the skylines of London or Paris but that doesnt mean that I can't appreciate the impressiveness of Moscow. It is big, it's bold and it's different. Would I want a bright-orange skyscraper in the middle of London? No, but it isn't. It's in Moscow, in an entirely different context. I don't like Singapore either these days but I can't deny that it is impressive. You have to factor in more than just personal taste.

The fact that you have brought government-funding, etc into it again just further shows your mindset. You are clearly not that keen on Russia for political reasons and you are allowing it to cloud your judgement. Your mention of 'oligarchs' in your previous post betrayed this too and you failed to put up an adequate defence of this. Remember, this is about the skyline and not about who paid for the skyline.

I stand by my original point. I have no problem with Moscow not being your cup of tea. However, to put it down in 9th of all European skylines (most of which, let's face it are pretty undeveloped by world standards) clearly demonstrates that there is more to it for you than simply taste (politics!). Your subsequent posts have made this fairly obvious, however much you protest.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 11:03 AM   #15310
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TBH, I think Warsaw is slightly over represented on this forum pictorially...scroll through-- "Oooh look it's Warsaw!...(again)"

I love and admire Moscow's blingy cluster but where are all the little wooden balconies?
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Old October 9th, 2019, 01:00 PM   #15311
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London

O2 Approach by Geoff Henson, on Flickr

London Metropolis - Canary Wharf by Wajid Qureshi, on Flickr

London view from Greenwich Park by Alessio Innocenzi, on Flickr


20191005 London Skyline by jezze0410, on Flickr


City of London as viewed from Waterloo bridge by Dick Bulch, on Flickr





source: https://www.instagram.com/londonviewpoints/

City of London skyline by Hello Love skyline, on Flickr
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:04 PM   #15312
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I think Manchester is building more
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:17 PM   #15313
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My list ( = growing up fastly, ^ = growing up, -- = static):

1 London
2 Moscow
3 Paris --
4 Warsaw
5 Frankfurt ^
- huge gap -
6 Milan ^
7 Rotterdam ^ (or --, I'm not sure)
- huge gap -
8 Vilnius --
9 Madrid ^
10 Den Haag --
11 Vienna --
12 Manchester
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:24 PM   #15314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Parsifal View Post
If you think that Milan has an impressive skyline and is a potential beast while also thinking that Warsaw skyline isn’t, then you’re nothing but full of crap. Or blind. Not saying Milan has got a bad skyline, I ranked it 7th, it’s just that I can’t think of a scenario where Milan beats Warsaw in terms of the skyline. Same goes for Rotterdam, too, it’s just that with Milan the case is even clearer

Warsaw has potential to become very soon a real, big competitor for Frankfurt. A league higher than Milan in my opinion.



Best perspective of the Milan skyline:

-



Best perspective of the Warsaw skyline (and mind you, it’s an outdated pic from 2015):

-
I agree with you that Warsaw at the moment is much better than Milan in terms of overall skyline, but come on, that's not the best perspective of Milan skyline at all, and you know...bad quality pic, including just 12% of the skyline. Recently just bad quality pictures of Milan are posted unfortunately
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:50 PM   #15315
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London
United Kingdom

Canary Wharf at sunset by RJS London, on Flickr

Vauxhall skyline from a distance by RJS London, on Flickr
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Old October 9th, 2019, 07:52 PM   #15316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares2018 View Post
Warsaw is light years from Manchester ... the truth be told.
erm no, it's not 'light years' away, superior as a capital city should be but definitely not 'light years' away.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:05 PM   #15317
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Warsaw is currently the largest construction site after London. Give Warsaw 2-3 years more and no one else will write here that that Warsaw is the same level as Rotterdam or some Milan. There are only 5 cities when we talk about the skyline: London, Warsaw, Moscow, Frankfurt, Paris, the rest are some wet dreams about the skyline.
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:06 PM   #15318
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Warsaw
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:09 PM   #15319
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Manchester

Manchester Skyline by wardy-uk, on Flickr

Reach for the sky by Mike Rampton, on Flickrv
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Old October 9th, 2019, 08:11 PM   #15320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis1234 View Post
Warsaw is currently the largest construction site after London. Give Warsaw 2-3 years more and no one else will write here that that Warsaw is the same level as Rotterdam or some Milan. There are only 5 cities when we talk about the skyline: London, Warsaw, Moscow, Frankfurt, Paris, the rest are some wet dreams about the skyline.
Milan’s quality and organisation > Warsaw’s randomly placed towers. Warsaw will be most comparable to Rotterdam in a few years, might even lose it from some angles.
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