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Old November 27th, 2019, 09:23 AM   #721
Locke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bribri View Post
I think most people would love a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets of Brisbane but we have to consider cost. Given the cost blowouts for the Sydney system we are getting the Metro here for probably a third to a quarter of the cost of a light rail system. If it really is this or nothing, I prefer this. Idealism doesn't always cut it, people need to be a little bit pragmatic and work out what is financially achievable.
I'm not a subscriber to the whole 'settling for mediocrity' argument.

I don't see Sydney or Melbourne settling.

In ten, twenty, thirty years everyone will still be enjoying that light rail in Sydney and everyone will have forgotten about the (marginally higher upfront) cost of light rail.

Anyway, as for cost, they've barely started this and the cost has blown out already.

I'd rather they just get more normal buses for the busways (rather than pay the rip-off prices for these HESS models) and build a seperate LR system or underground.

Rail sucks in Brisbane.
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Old November 29th, 2019, 10:24 AM   #722
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Again, having a crack at the State Government for doing a quick assessment to understand the scale and approach to upgrading PT. There are many areas to have a crack at the State Government over. This isn't one of them

You’re right, how dare I question the logic of not having efficiency or productivity of a PT system as one of the key metrics which it is assessed again. I won’t criticise your precious TMR again then, I’ll just accept what they say as gospel and won’t question it.
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Old November 29th, 2019, 11:01 AM   #723
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Wow. That escalated quickly.


What's wrong with doing a quick study to understand the cost of the conversion from Busway to light rail? It was never going to be a project that was to be undertaken within the next decade so what was the point in doing a full BCA at that time?




And again, I have complained regularly about TMR.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 01:57 AM   #724
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Council still counting the cost of Brisbane Metro delays

Brisbane City Council still does not know exactly how much construction delays on its Brisbane Metro mass transit project will cost, six months after flagging the hold-up.

But the council insists the 2016 LNP election-pledge project is still "fully funded", despite also admitting the delays caused by reassessing the planned South Brisbane Metro station would cost more money.


The 2017 business case for Brisbane Metro indicated final construction would be completed by 2022; however, that has since been pushed out to 2023.

Public and active transport committee chairwoman Krista Adams said that, to date, the council had invested $113 million into the $944 million project, of which $43 million was put towards the Metro depot at Rochedale.


"The reality is delays do cost money, but it is fantastic we are now under way and have state government support for this critical project," Cr Adams said.

"Brisbane Metro will happen – it is fully funded by Brisbane City Council and the federal government."

In June last year Transport Minister Mark Bailey requested the council reconsider its planned metro station location under the Cultural Centre.

The request prompted an angry lashing from lord mayor Adrian Schrinner, but by the end of the year state and government had patched over the rift and early work for South Brisbane began.

Contractors that had already tendered for the Cultural Centre station were left waiting for a solution, with industry warning the council could have to pay more to those contractors left in the lurch after putting in multimillion-dollar bids.

"We are continuing to finalise the tender process and work with the state government on the Cultural Centre station options, with specific costs yet to be finalised," Cr Adams said.


In 2018-19, the council had budgeted for $39.9 million and spent $44.4 million.

For the current financial year, the council budgeted $125 million, of which $7 million had been spent across July to October last year.

As of September last year, $12 million of spending went to the Brisbane Metro business case, and almost $29 million for design and technical investigations.

Sixteen million dollars were spent on purchasing land, and more than $1 million on marketing and communications for the Metro project.

Late last year, the council announced that electric vehicles for Brisbane Metro had been selected, with some fit-out work to be completed in Brisbane.

Labor lord mayoral candidate Pat Condren criticised the administration for running adverts saying the Brisbane Metro was "under way", labelling the adverts "misleading".

"Blowouts and delays are what we’ve come to expect from this unelected lord mayor," Mr Condren said.

"Yet he is still spending hundreds of thousands on misleading ads suggesting it's already running.

"This unelected lord mayor is more interested in promoting himself than delivering improved public transport for Brisbane."
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...13-p53qzs.html
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Old January 15th, 2020, 01:44 AM   #725
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Brisbane Metro 'at risk' if Labor elected, Schrinner warns
Brisbane City Council will look to the state government to cover any budget blowouts for the Brisbane Metro after the $944 million project was pushed back last year, while Labor indicated it would review the project if elected.

The state government requested the council reassess a planned underground station at the Cultural Centre for the mass transit project, sparking a war of words between lord mayor Adrian Schrinner and Transport Minister Mark Bailey.

Cr Schrinner said on Tuesday that early works had begun on the Brisbane Metro depot at Rochedale as the council continued developing a final plan for the Cultural Centre underground station.

The final costs of those changes, which caused months of delays to construction, are still unknown, he said, and may not be known before the March 28 election.

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Cr Schrinner said until engineering work on the proposed station location was finalised he couldn't "speculate" on any cost changes, and could not guarantee that any overrun costs would be revealed before the March 28 election.

"This is something that has to be determined based on the engineering that is going on at the moment," Cr Schrinner said.

"Any changes, any cost changes, would be something that we would go to the state government for. Ultimately it would be their change that required a change in the cost of the project.

"It would be their involvement, so we would be going to them asking for any funding. We've made that clear to them."

Cr Schrinner's comments came as Labor lord mayoral candidate Pat Condren indicated he would reconsider Brisbane Metro if elected, should the massive project not stack up for value for money.

Mr Condren told reporters on Tuesday morning that Cr Schrinner would not admit to extra costs for Brisbane Metro when there was "not a shovel in the ground to date" for the project.

"If I'm lucky enough to be elected on March 28 this year, I will seriously review the future of the metro project," Mr Condren said.

"It's already several million dollars over budget, which is absolutely extraordinary, and these difficult financial times, can the residents and ratepayers of Brisbane afford this sort of overrun?"

A spokesman for Acting Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Ryan said the state was "committed" to working with the council on the metro.

"Council has committed to progress design work on the new cultural centre metro station and to continue exploring the option for West End buses to travel underground by modifying the existing reference design," the spokesman said.

"This will involve engaging shortlisted bidders and further technical feasibility work on potential mechanical flood gates, with any funding implications expected to be discussed when this work is complete."

Cr Schrinner said the council Labor opposition had not presented any alternative plans for mass transit in Brisbane and did not have the experience to deliver a large-scale infrastructure project.

"The only reason [Brisbane Metro] would be under threat would be if the other side were elected on the 28th of March," Cr Schrinner said.

"People need to be aware that Brisbane Metro is at risk because [Labor] has not indicated their support for the project, but they have not on the other hand presented any alternatives for public transport in Brisbane."
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...14-p53rca.html
Seriously, when will this political fight stop
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Old January 15th, 2020, 02:21 AM   #726
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"People need to be aware that Brisbane Metro is at risk because [Labor] has not indicated their support for the project, but they have not on the other hand presented any alternatives for public transport in Brisbane."
I have to agree with Cr Schrinner on this, and it is the big thing that gets me about Pat Condren - he is quick to shoot down the current administration's plans and proposals (as is his right, being Labor's alternative Lord Mayor), BUT he is not putting forward any solid alternatives. Ok, he doesn't like Brisbane Metro - what then does he plan to do about tackling busway congestion?
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Old January 15th, 2020, 02:25 AM   #727
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Seriously, when will this political fight stop
Does this article basically say the state and local ALP have different stances on the project?
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Old January 15th, 2020, 02:53 AM   #728
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I don't think it's a case of State Labor outright supporting the project (and especially not financially), but more so permitting BCC to proceed and permitting the required alterations to be made to state-owned infrastructure.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 06:46 AM   #729
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If Brisbane Metro is at risk with Labor, bring it on


In all seriousness though, have Labor done anything to show they deserve being elected?
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Old January 15th, 2020, 07:15 AM   #730
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In my personal opinion, no.

BCC isn't my LGA to vote in anyway, but even if it was there's nothing I've seen that would encourage me to vote Labor.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 07:21 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
If Brisbane Metro is at risk with Labor, bring it on


In all seriousness though, have Labor done anything to show they deserve being elected?
While Metro is far from the best solution (I would prefer trams or a real metro like in Singapore/Sydney), it's not like the Labor council have put anything else forward as options for people to consider.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 07:32 AM   #732
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but they have already considered rail style metro and rejected it...
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Old January 15th, 2020, 07:38 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by Fyver View Post
Does this article basically say the state and local ALP have different stances on the project?
state gov didn't want to approve the project and Council has been asking for approval. They have been blaming for each other for months now. if this is not political fight i dont know what it is.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 08:12 AM   #734
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Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
If Brisbane Metro is at risk with Labor, bring it on


In all seriousness though, have Labor done anything to show they deserve being elected?
NO!!!
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Old January 15th, 2020, 08:19 AM   #735
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Ray Hadley or one of those on 4bc were spruiking this am about Asian countries getting into light rail which doesn't have drivers or rails and that Sydney has just spent millions on their light rail system. In other words....Sydney is behind the 8 ball and it's only just opened it's brand new system.

I wonder if it is similar to our proposed metro that he was talking about but without drivers??
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Old January 15th, 2020, 08:36 AM   #736
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I support the Bne Metro and it's potential bus network remodelling.

In the future SEQ plan that had extensive input last year. It was mentioned that a Surface LRT would replace the Glider route with in the next decade due patronage growth along the route. Thus LRT will just compliment Bne Metro.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 08:51 AM   #737
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I'm presuming you are speaking of the West End Glider? Will it be able to go down the tunnel to the new Cultural Centre Station? If not then it will have to go across Grey Street or under. That sort of will make the current State Govt's plans go astray slightly.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 10:31 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by bribri View Post
I think most people would love a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets of Brisbane but we have to consider cost. Given the cost blowouts for the Sydney system we are getting the Metro here for probably a third to a quarter of the cost of a light rail system. If it really is this or nothing, I prefer this. Idealism doesn't always cut it, people need to be a little bit pragmatic and work out what is financially achievable.
I often agree with your posts but can't agree with this. If dozens of European cities can afford light rail, not to mention several Australian cities (including the Gold Coast) why can't Brisbane? Brisbane is one of the most prosperous cities in one of the planet's richest nations. Cost is no reason for Brisbane not to have "a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets".

On another note, the way this thread about a supposed metro keeps sidetracking into buses and light rail just goes to show how the Brisbane Metro is a misnomer. I just wish this 'metro' could be called what it really is - an extension to Brisbane's impressive busway system. A metro it ain't. I'm not against this project but Brisbane needs and deserves a proper metro rail system - like the projects Sydney and Melbourne are getting,.

Last edited by Vocodr; January 15th, 2020 at 11:59 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 10:40 AM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bribri View Post
I think most people would love a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets of Brisbane but we have to consider cost. Given the cost blowouts for the Sydney system we are getting the Metro here for probably a third to a quarter of the cost of a light rail system. If it really is this or nothing, I prefer this. Idealism doesn't always cut it, people need to be a little bit pragmatic and work out what is financially achievable.
I often agree with your posts but can't agree with this. If dozens of European cities can afford light rail, not to mention several Australian cities (including the Gold Coast) why can't Brisbane? Brisbane is one of the most prosperous cities in the world, in one of the planet's richest nations. Cost is no reason for Brisbane not to have "a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets".
Because Queensland is currently spending $billions on the cross river rail.. a light rail project has zero chance of funding without support at the state level. The state govt won’t commit extra $billion towards a major PT project in Brisbane at the same time as the CRR because of fear of backlash from the rest of the state electorates.

I don’t agree with it, but I also know the state government(both parties) are weary about over-promising for Brisbane out of fear of losing the rest of the state.
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Old January 15th, 2020, 02:11 PM   #740
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I often agree with your posts but can't agree with this. If dozens of European cities can afford light rail, not to mention several Australian cities (including the Gold Coast) why can't Brisbane? Brisbane is one of the most prosperous cities in the world, in one of the planet's richest nations. Cost is no reason for Brisbane not to have "a nice Euro style light rail gliding over the streets".

On another note, the way this thread about a supposed underground keeps sidetracking into buses and light rail just goes to show how the Brisbane Underground is a misnomer. I just wish this 'underground' could be called what it really is - an extension to Brisbane's impressive busway system. An underground it ain't. I'm not against this project but Brisbane needs and deserves a proper metro rail system - nothing less.
You are dead to me, just kidding
A problem Australia faces that many other countries don’t is the exorbitant cost of construction here either residential or commercial. Union involvement adds around $100,000 to the cost of an average apartment. Those guys holding stop/go signs on the street are being paid well into six figures. Australia is a very expensive country to build in which is why, particularly in Queensland where the state government is almost bankrupt, we just can’t afford the level of infrastructure that other countries seem to manage with ease.
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