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Old January 3rd, 2010, 12:00 AM   #1
Newcastle Historian
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Newcastle - Grand Development Plans and Ideas (over the years)

Newcastle - Grand Development Plans over the years


Many and various "Grand Plans" for areas of Newcastle, have appeared in the various Historic threads on this forum, in the past. They have appeared (principally) within the Historic Newcastle and the Newcastle as it Might Have been threads.

Copies of those posts remain on those original threads, quite correctly as that is where many people know them to be . . . so why have a separate thread for them now?

What I am trying to achieve by this is to facilitate future users of our forum . . . who are using the forum for "research" purposes.

That is happening a lot now, as the volume of our factual content on here has grown.

While there is the search function and the INDEX thread, where these posts can be traced from, it will make it a great deal easier for future users/researchers (who have found us from Google etc) to find the "full series" if they have their own NAMED thread.

This principal applies to any definitive subject (usually where there is a 'series about a subject') that originally appears within a much longer and larger thread.

There will be other times and situations where a subsequent 'stand alone copy-thread' could be a useful tool to have!

So, off we go, with an 'accumulation' from various threads, of a number of "Newcastle Grand Plans" . . .

.

Last edited by Newcastle Historian; January 23rd, 2011 at 01:56 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 01:12 AM   #2
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NEWCASTLE QUAYSIDE 1980s/90s GRAND PLANS.
The Quayside as it might have been.


Part 1 - The 1988 John Laing Plans.


There is one area of Central Newcastle that has probably had more "as it might have been" PLANS & PROPOSALS put forward about it, than all of the rest put together. That area is The Quayside.

The 'Newcastle as it might have been' thread has already included three of them, dated 1925, 1969 and 1971, see LINKS to posts "1" and "77", below.

1925 - ROBERT BURNS DICK, THE 'TYNE BRIDGE APPROACH' PLANS and . .
1971 - THE 12 PROPOSED ALL SAINTS OFFICE BLOCKS (BOTH POST 1).
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...47&postcount=1

1969 - THE 'TYNE DECK' PROPOSALS (POST 77).
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...5&postcount=77

BUT, it was in the 1980s that the largest number of seriously exciting plans were devised, as the TWDC (Tyne & Wear Development Corporation) sought to push through major redevelopments all along the Newcastle Quayside.

The below plans were proposed by JOHN LAING PLC . . .
















It is very interesting to see how different these 1980s proposals for 'East Quayside' are, from what was eventually built there, which (thanks to the GAPS at 'Imperial Quay' and 'Ouseburn Point') is still an unfinished project to this day!

I wonder, are these plans better or worse than what eventually happened . . would they have actually worked?

What about the idea of having an IMAX Cinema on the Quayside eh?

.

Last edited by Newcastle Historian; November 13th, 2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #3
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THE LAING QUAYSIDE PLANS (continued).

I have done some enlargements of the three main 'plan diagrams' (in Post 97) that were a bit too small to see clearly.

POST 97 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...1&postcount=97

Enlargements . .


1 - OVERHEAD DIAGRAMATIC VIEW OF SITE . .




2 - DETAILS OF EACH LEVEL OF "WORLD OF DISCOVERY" . .




3 - THE MAJOR AREAS/BUILDINGS ON THE PLAN . .

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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:47 AM   #4
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NEWCASTLE QUAYSIDE 1980s/90s GRAND PLANS.
The Quayside as it might have been.


Part 2 - The 1988 'Newcastle Quayside Developments PLC' Plans.


Here are a second set of 'completely different' proposals, plans and designs that were drawn up to cover the same area of the Quayside (IE, 'East Quayside' where the former Quayside Sheds were, right along to the Ouseburn) as those that I showed at "Part 1", by John Laing PLC.

This second set of plans (below) were proposed by NEWCASTLE QUAYSIDE DEVELOPMENTS PLC . .








.

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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #5
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interesting that both plans had a consensus on the issue of recreating the malmaison. i think that is a great idea. maybe we can put that on the empty Imperial Quay site on the quayside! the rest of the scheme looks a little naff, it has to be said. though the one thing that is better than the current setup is using the street BEHIND Malmaison for real buildings. I despise the carpark that currently sits there - destroys any idea of that lane being a real street and gives the quayside a paper thin facade feel, not unlike all those awful 80s and 90s flats alongside the Thames, when it should link back more to city road and the surrounding areas. i still hold out hope that one day at least some of those carparks will be demolished and real buildings put in their place with frontages onto city road too.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 01:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
interesting that both plans had a consensus on the issue of recreating the malmaison. i think that is a great idea. maybe we can put that on the empty Imperial Quay site on the quayside! the rest of the scheme looks a little naff, it has to be said. though the one thing that is better than the current setup is using the street BEHIND Malmaison for real buildings. I despise the carpark that currently sits there - destroys any idea of that lane being a real street and gives the quayside a paper thin facade feel, not unlike all those awful 80s and 90s flats alongside the Thames, when it should link back more to city road and the surrounding areas. i still hold out hope that one day at least some of those carparks will be demolished and real buildings put in their place with frontages onto city road too.
Interesting what you say about the car parks, and while I echo your sentiments, I seem to remember that it was only the very high level of provided car parking that made all the East Quayside office blocks a viable economic proposition to build in the first place. When these various "1980s Grand Plans" were finally rationalised (though there are still MORE plans to show on here yet) and the building of 'East Quayside' as we know it today was commenced in the early 1990s, they were somehow able to provide out of town Business Park levels of car parking (by building those multi-storeys) which enabled building of these 'central-area' office blocks to go ahead at all.

I am sure I have some papers on this (somewhere!!) which I will endeavour to find . .
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Old January 13th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
Interesting what you say about the car parks, and while I echo your sentiments, I seem to remember that it was only the very high level of provided car parking that made all the East Quayside office blocks a viable economic proposition to build in the first place. When these various "1980s Grand Plans" were finally rationalised (though there are still MORE plans to show on here yet) and the building of 'East Quayside' as we know it today was commenced in the early 1990s, they were somehow able to provide out of town Business Park levels of car parking (by building those multi-storeys) which enabled building of these 'central-area' office blocks to go ahead at all.

I am sure I have some papers on this (somewhere!!) which I will endeavour to find . .

Found them!

While, on this thread, we are nowhere near this stage yet (we are still looking at the various "1980s Grand Plans") when things actually started to get built on East Quayside in the early-1990s, the structure we see today only came about because of massive support from the Tyne & Wear Development Corporation, in terms of 'preparation of infrastructure' and the physical building of things such as Car Parks, amongst other things.

Now, I know that no-one is saying that there shouldn't be car parking on East Quayside, and indeed the point being made (that proper buildings giving a better streetscape would make the place far more pleasant to be in, if I've understood it correctly) is one I wholeheartedly agree with. However, it just so happens that 'car parking provision' was SUCH an important catalyst for the entire East Quayside development, which explains why there is so much of it and why it is where it is.

The extracts below discuss part of the 'car parking' issue . .


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Old January 16th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #8
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A different view of the "Newcastle Quayside Developments" proposals, that we are currently discussing. This shows the CENTRAL SQUARE area from a different angle . . .

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Old January 17th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #9
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NEWCASTLE QUAYSIDE 1980s/90s GRAND PLANS.
The Quayside as it might have been.


Part 3 - The 1988 'Brookmount PLC' Plans.


Here are the THIRD set of proposals that were drawn up for 'East Quayside' in 1988. They cover exactly the same area of the Quayside (East Quayside, where the former Quayside Sheds were right along to the Ouseburn) as those that were shown at "No. 1" (by John Laing PLC.) and at "No.2" (by Newcastle Quayside Developments).

This third set of plans (below) were proposed by BROOKMOUNT PLC . .

Unfortunately, I was not able to obtain a copy of 'Brookmount PLCs' Brochure at the time, but what I do have is a 1988 NEWSPAPER REVIEW of their proposals, which will have to suffice . . .



So, while there is not so much we can discuss (in the absence of detailed plans) about this 'third set' of 1988 proposals, there is one thing about them that I notice straight away! They appear to have included the aspect that johnnypd and others commented was MISSING from the previous two proposals (and from 'what actually happened' that we have today) . . . UNDERGROUND CAR PARKING!

It is just a pity I do not have any more detail, other than what is in the newspaper review.


Now, while this post is about the "Brookemount PLC Plans", the 1988 newspaper article that reviewed their plans (above) also reviewed the first two proposals (that we have already seen full details of) so I may as well include those two reviews here also (out of interest) below . . .



.

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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #10
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So, the story continues . .

Here is the East Quayside Grand Plans 'Timetable of Events' so far, and up to 1992 . . .

1 - During 1988 the three 'Grand Plans' had been submitted by John Laing PLC, Newcastle Quayside Developments, and Brookemount PLC. These have been covered (above) at Posts 97, 113 and 124, respectively.

2 - All three were reviewed in the Journal of 12th July 1988, at Post 124.

3 - The three plans were then considered by the Tyne & Wear Development Corporation.



4 - The plan chosen by TWDC, to be built, was the second plan in this thread, the one submitted under the name "Newcastle Quayside Developments". See Post 113 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=113.

5 - References to the developers of this plan, from this point on (for some reason) used the company name Shearwater, a part of the Rosehaugh property development company and they planned to build the development in partnership with the builder, Stanley Miller Ltd.

6 - Unfortunately, Shearwater/Rosehaugh 'collapsed' as a company only two years later, in 1990, but TWDC (now determined to get East Quayside developed) proceeded to buy up all areas of land that were not already in public ownership, by Compulsory Purchase Order.

7 - In 1992, TWDC appointed AMEC to devise (what they called) a more 'market oriented' plan, based on a plan devised by architect Terry Farrell. What AMEC/Farrell came up with was essentially an office scheme (FORGET all the 'Festival Shopping' in the previously approved plan) with a hotel and some residential areas, with the office areas having 'out of town' levels of car parking.

8 - TWDC (who were a planning authority in their own right) ignored Newcastle City Council and approved the plan. AMEC proceeded to build it, and the end product is what you see on East Quayside today, still with two gaps at 'Imperial Quay' and 'Ouseburn Point'.

9 - This (effectively) "4th" set of Grand Plans, will be shown on my next post . . .
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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:20 PM   #11
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NEWCASTLE QUAYSIDE 1980s/90s GRAND PLANS.
The Quayside as it might have been.


Part 4 - The 1992 'AMEC' Plans.


As explained in the previous post, this FOURTH set of plans (below) were proposed by AMEC . .

Some of this was actually built! It was, really, the end-product of the previous three un-implemented plans, AND (as you will see) even this 4th 'Grand Proposal' was not fully built as planned . . .










.

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Old January 19th, 2010, 11:31 AM   #12
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Well, that's the end of all the Quayside plans, a mammoth task, I can get some "rest" now!!

Hope people enjoyed them though!
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Old January 19th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
Well, that's the end of all the Quayside plans, a mammoth task, I can get some "rest" now!!

Hope people enjoyed them though!
Yes, thanks for the efforts NH! I'm very familiar with recent proposals on the Quayside and the historical context you've set out is excellent.

On a related point, there's a good book published on this which includes some of the above illustrations. It's entitled "The Regeneration of Newcastle/Gateshead Quays" by Eric Morgan (2009). I'm not sure how big the print run was, but if you're interested the publisher's e-mail is [email protected].

Edit - just realised NH may already have the book.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #14
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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 1 - The 1997 Proposals . . .


There have been many proposals over the years (and over the centuries!) for Newcastle United Football Club to either build a new stadium at St James' Park, or to build a new stadium elsewhere.

These various proposals are clearly ideal "Newcastle as it might have been" articles, for inclusion on this thread.

Just to be different, this time I thought I would start with the most recent set of unrealised plans, and work my way backwards.

So, here is No. 1 . . . the 1997 proposals to build a new stadium a few hundred yards away from St James' Park, on "Castle Leazes Moor".


To get a CLEAR idea of where this stadium was to be built. At the top of this aerial photo, Castle Leazes Moor and St James' Park, can both be seen . .



Here are the clubs plans (seen from above) for the new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor on the left, with the (St James' Park cut-in-half) St James' Centre, shown on the right . .



A view of the proposed new stadium, at the 'South East' corner, nearest to Leazes Park lake . .



Another view of the proposed 'Castle Leazes Moor' stadium . .



This sketch shows the proposed 'Leazes Way' walkway through the enlarged Leazes Park, that would have lead from the new "St James Centre" (proposed indoor stadium on site of St James Park) to the new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .



Another sketch of the proposed stadium, from Leazes park . .



The "ST JAMES' CENTRE" . . . was an important part of the overall plan. This was to be an indoor stadium on the site of the current St James' Park. The South Stand and South West corner would remain as they were, the East and Milburn stands would be demolished, and the Sir John Hall stand and corners would be dismantled and re-erected closer to the remaining 'South Stand', to form the indoor stadium . . as shown, with the building over Strawberry Place linking to the 'new build' over St James' Park Metro Station . .



One of the envisaged advantages of the 'reduced size' St James' Park/Centre, to the immediate area, would be the extended Leazes Park, as shown here where it is overlooked by Leazes Terrace, at the point where the demolished 'East Stand' used to be . .



Now, the above plans and proposals, in the clubs own words at the time, from their "Newcastle United Football Club VISION STATEMENT" . . .









Interesting stuff, eh . . ?
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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
FOUND IT . . .



My search for the above led me to a very large collection of newspaper articles from 1996/1997 about . .

(1) The proposed move to Castle Leazes Moor, and
(2) The "fight to keep Newcastle United in Newcastle" (as it was portrayed) as some of the sites (not mentioned in the above article actually) were outside the City Boundary.

There was SUCH a lot of newspaper articles and headlines about all of these issues at the time, FAR TOO MANY for me to scan in as 'readable scans', so (to give just a little bit of the flavour of what was going on 14 years ago) I have photographed a few 'groups' of some of the newspaper articles . . .








The Evening Chronicle of Wednesday July 7th 1996, even gave us all a game of "Snakes and Ladders" to play!! . . .




They were 'interesting days' indeed!!
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Old March 19th, 2010, 01:01 AM   #16
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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 2 - The 1972 Proposals . . .


NB - Part 1, 1997, can be seen HERE : https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218
and also HERE : https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272


In 1972 we were presented with a detailed and comprehensive set of proposals to demolish the entire ground, and rebuild a 'uniform stand' (seats upstairs with standing in front) all the way around the ground.

Effectively, what was being proposed in 1972, was to build (what became the following year) the new East Stand all the way around St James Park, looking the same architecturally from outside as well as in, with some possible differences in the 'West Stand' area.

Here is the full set of "as it might have been" proposals, from 1972 . . .























Then, when we all assembled for the start of the 72/73 season on 12th August 1972, this was the front cover of our "new style" Match Programme . .



Inside the programme, the state of play with the development was explained . .



AS history shows, it was only the 'East Stand' of these proposals, that was ever built, and it didn't even cover the full length of the old Popular Side.

The rest of these proposals were quietly dropped, which was later said to be because of lack of money.


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Old April 6th, 2010, 02:15 AM   #17
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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 3 - Various Proposals 1921 to 1997 . . .


This is the THIRD in the series on Newcastle United's "Newcastle as it might have been" proposals. The first two in the series covered (in detail) the 1997 proposals (Part One) and the 1972 Proposals (Part Two).

This third (and final) part, covers "all the other plans" that were proposed (but did NOT happen) starting in 1921 (29 years after Newcastle "United" first played at St James' Park) right up until 1997.

So, off we go . . .


1 - 1921.

Some reports state these plans come from '1929', but the majority state 1921. The first item (below) is a newspaper article from the Evening Chronicle of September 8th 1982, and actually (also) contains some details of some 'later' plans for the ground, from 1967. These plans are covered in detail later in this post . .






2 - 1964.

T Dan Smith and Newcastle City Council, were the instigators of this next set of proposals. His vision was of a "multi-sports complex', with Newcastle United Football Club at its centre. The club never really bought into this idea, and the below designs (though sometimes said to be the multi-sports' plans) were produced at the clubs behest in 1964, ignoring the councils 'multi-sports' ideas . .




3 - 1967.

Only a few years later in 1967, the 'multi-sports' idea again raised its head. A £2.6M scheme was devised that would have provided a football ground with a capacity of 63,000 spectators. The cost (though to be shared between the club, the City and the University) was seen by the club as too high, and amid disputes and talk of the club re-locating to Gosforth Park, the whole thing fell through . .






4 - 1972.

Full details of the "1972" proposals, were given in PART TWO of this series.

See the below post . .


POST 280 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=280


5 - 1976.

The 1972 proposals (as shown on the above post 280) eventually came to nothing, apart from the construction of the 'East Stand' in 1973. In 1976 it was again proposed to 'extend the East Stand' around the corner into the (then) Leazes End. The old Leazes End roof and the back part of the standing area ('kop') were demolished to facilitate the below plans. Despite the demolition, none of the below extension was ever built . .




6 - 1989.

These are the first set of plans prepared by John Hall, as part of his plans to 'take over' the club. He produced three different options in 1989 . .






The next diagram (below) appears to be 'a slightly different version' of the cross-section in Option Three (as shown above) but now sporting the Magpie Group Logo (top centre) . .




7 - 1990.

In the face of John Halls re-development plans, the old Gordon McKeag led board (still very much in control of the club at that point) came up with their own SJP re-development proposals. Their plans (shown below) had an estimated cost of £16.5M and a planned capacity of 40,000 - yet they knew that they couldn't afford it! The planned 'Share Issue' had flopped, but they still published their plans . .




8 - 1991.

While John Hall (Magpie Group) and Gordon McKeag (the old Board) vied with eachother to produce re-development plans for the ground, the City Council suddenly got involved again, with some VERY expensive and dramatic proposals, costing in the region of £100M and eating into part of Leazes Park. City Architect, Trevor Skemptons design was in fact a 'giant amphitheatre', incorporating a shopping mall, office complex, car parking and a theatre.

A huge 'hydraulic' sliding screen would separate the football ground area from the theatre area at the Leazes End (projecting outwards into Leazes Park) producing a flexible football ground capacity of between 30,000 and 80,000 and 'indoor' concerts, stage plays and sports like 'boxing' would have an audience of as low as 20,000.

A spectacular and expensive (but perhaps impractical) addition to the list of proposed SJP developments . .






9 - 1996.

Designed by architect Michael Gilfillan, this proposal shows a design for a new ground for NUFC away from St James' Park, and (more importantly) on the 'Gateshead' side of the river. These plans are likely to have been part of the overall tactics by the club to get the City Council on their side for their imminent (1997) proposals to build a new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .




10 - 1997.

Full details of the "1997" proposals, were given in PART ONE of this series.

See the below two posts . .


POST 218 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218

POST 272 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272



So - There we have it . . . TEN different sets of Newcastle United Stadium Plans, that NEVER happened!

I wonder if the above is now the "definitive" collection of ALL of the 'abandoned proposals' for major revamps of SJP or moves to new grounds, that NUFC have ever made over the years?

It may well be . . . UNLESS you know different??


I hope you find the above ten proposals interesting. I have been waiting to publish this third post of dramatic plans and proposals for Newcastle United's ground (that did not happen) until I could do so as part of a CELEBRATION of our promotion back to the Premier League.

That is why I posted this on 5th April 2010 !!!


.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:27 AM   #18
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Newcastle City Centre - 1960s Grand Development Plans.
Plans that never happened, or only partially happened.


Part 1 - Main Central Area Development Plans (1)












































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Old April 12th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #19
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Newcastle City Centre - 1960s Grand Development Plans.
Plans that never happened, or only partially happened.


Part 2 - Main Central Area (inc. Central Motorways) Development Plans (2).
























Central Motorway Plans for the Western part of the City Centre . .




Central Motorway Plans for the Eastern part of the City Centre . .




Central Motorway Plans for the Northern part of the City Centre . .




Previous parts in this series . . .

Part One - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=385

.

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Old April 12th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #20
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Newcastle City Centre - 1960s Grand Development Plans.
Plans that never happened, or only partially happened.


Part 3 - Main Central Area Development Plans (3).


This part (Part 3) about the 'Main Central Area Plan', includes a fair amount about aspects that were actually built, rather than the "as it might have been" bits, which is the main remit of this thread.

This is a necessary part of painting the complete picture of all the various 1960's Development Plans and much of this part gives us a 'run-down' of the details of many of the 1960s buildings that were built, and that we recognise today . . .






















Previous parts in this series . . .

Part 1 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=385
Part 2 - https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=388

.

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city centre, development, developments, england, historic newcastle, historic north east eng, history, newcastle, newcastle united, newcastle upon tyne, project, projects, quayside, redevelopment, united kingdom

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