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Old October 12th, 2019, 05:05 AM   #4121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Regular season is done for MLS. Here are the 2019 averages compared with the 2018 averages:

2019 2018 Team
52,510 53,002 ATL
40,247 40,641 SEA
27,336 ___NA FCC
25,218 21,144 POR
25,048 26,628 TFC
23,205 24,444 LAG
22,761 23,866 ORL
22,251 22,042 LAFC
21,107 23,211 NYC
19,723 23,902 MNU
19,514 21,946 VAN
18,781 19,032 SJE
18,601 19,950 SKC
18,121 18,605 RSL
17,744 17,635 DCU
17,281 18,601 RBNY
17,111 16,518 PHI
16,737 18,347 NER
16,171 18,569 MON
15,674 16,906 HOU
14,856 12,447 CBS
14,842 15,512 FCD
14,284 15,333 COL
12,324 14,806 CHI
21,310 21,873 MLS Average

Apologies if this is off-topic, but tv ratings for the completed MLS season are out as well. From the website SportsMediaWatch:

Quote:
MLS regular season up on ESPN networks

ESPN and ESPN2 averaged 246,000 viewers for Major League Soccer coverage this season, up 2% from last year (241K). In particular, games on ESPN averaged 266,000 (+7%). The season average is exactly the same as what the WNBA averaged on ESPN, ESPN2 and ABC during its regular season.

Portland led all markets for the regular season with an average rating of 0.8. Atlanta (0.5) ranked second, with Seattle, Cincinnati and Kansas City tying for third (0.4).

So on the national level MLS is about on par with the WNBA in viewership, obviously not Big 4 level but a notable part of the sports landscape. And in the cities where MLS is biggest (i.e. the usual suspects) MLS draws some very respectable numbers, about a third to a quarter of what MLB teams draw on their local cable sports nets.

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Old October 12th, 2019, 06:07 PM   #4122
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The big thing is that not only is the average overall viewership going up, but it's doing so while simultaneously providing greater volumes of content. Where in the past only a few teams could draw bigger numbers now more teams and players can do that, plus casual fans are able to better recognize when a match-up has meaning even if the brands involved aren't the biggest ones.

That last thing is key, which is also greatly aided by the improving marketing and broadcast quality. Every other major league (and US college sports) has the ability to get fans to buy in based on the context of the match, be it playoff implications, a #1 vs #3 showdown, or the chance for personal records. Casual sports fans are seeing this from MLS, and with an increasing number of very solid stadium scenes the league has that many more opportunities for showing games that are meaningful.

Put another way, the calibre of the product (both on and off the pitch) as seen on TV has improved greatly, and the league is bearing the fruit of those results.
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Old October 14th, 2019, 07:34 AM   #4123
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Originally Posted by 5portsF4n View Post
Off-topic but I've put together a list of all professional sports teams with over 10 million fans in total across the 3 major social media networks (Facebook, Twitter and Instagram). Different to attendances but a better reflection of popularity.

The 10 Million Club

1. Real Madrid 222m (SOCCER, SPAIN)
2. Barcelona 211.8m (SOCCER, SPAIN)
3. Manchester United 125.2m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
4. Chelsea 80.3m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
5. Juventus 79.3m (SOCCER, ITALY)
6. Bayern Munich 72.9m (SOCCER, GERMANY)
7. Paris St Germain 70.1m (SOCCER, FRANCE)
8. Arsenal 68.5m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
9. Liverpool 67.5m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
10. Manchester City 59.6m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
11. LA Lakers 38.3m (BASKETBALL, USA)
12. AC Milan 38.1m (SOCCER, ITALY)
13. Golden State Warriors 30.8m (BASKETBALL, USA)
14. Galatasaray 29.1m (SOCCER, TURKEY)
15. Borussia Dortmund 26.8m (SOCCER, GERMANY)
16. Chicago Bulls 26.4m (BASKETBALL, USA)
17. Atletico Madrid 25.7m (SOCCER, SPAIN)
18. Miami Heat 23.3m (BASKETBALL, USA)
19. Inter Milan 22.4m (SOCCER, ITALY)
20. Flamengo 22.1m (SOCCER, BRAZIL)
21. Mumbai Indians 21.9m (CRICKET, INDIA)
22. Tottenham Hotspur 21.6m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
23. Kolkata Knight Riders 21.5m (CRICKET, INDIA)
24. Corinthians 21.4m (SOCCER, BRAZIL)
25. Al Ahly 21.2m (SOCCER, EGYPT)
26. Fenerbahce 20.8m (SOCCER, TURKEY)
27. Chennai Super Kings 20.5m (CRICKET, INDIA)
28. Houston Rockets 19.6m (BASKETBALL, USA)
29. Cleveland Cavaliers 19m (BASKETBALL, USA)
30. Boston Celtics 16.7m (BASKETBALL, USA)
31. Persib Bandung 16.5m (SOCCER, INDONESIA)
32. Boca Juniors 16.2m (SOCCER, ARGENTINA)
33. Club America 15.9m (SOCCER, MEXICO)
34. Royal Challengers Bangalore 15.7m (CRICKET, INDIA)
35. New England Patriots 15.5m (AM FOOTBALL, USA)
36. Dallas Cowboys 15.4m (AM FOOTBALL, USA)
37. River Plate 15.3m (SOCCER, ARGENTINA)
38. New York Yankees 14.3m (BASEBALL, USA)
39. AS Roma 14.2m (SOCCER, ITALY)
40. OKC Thunder 14m (BASKETBALL, USA)
41. Sao Paulo 13.4m (SOCCER, BRAZIL)
42. San Antonio Spurs 13.1m (BASKETBALL, USA)
43. Besiktas 12.6m (SOCCER, TURKEY)
44. Pittsburgh Steelers 11.9m (AM FOOTBALL, USA)
45. Chivas Guadalajara 11.8m (SOCCER, MEXICO)
46. Kings Punjab XI 11.6m (CRICKET, INDIA)
47. Al Hilal 11.3m (SOCCER, SAUDI ARABIA)
48. Leicester City 11.1m (SOCCER, ENGLAND)
49. Zamalek 10.9m (SOCCER, EGYPT)
50. NY Knicks 10.1m (BASKETBALL, USA)
Top 45 Brazilian clubs



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Old October 14th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #4124
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
The big thing is that not only is the average overall viewership going up, but it's doing so while simultaneously providing greater volumes of content. Where in the past only a few teams could draw bigger numbers now more teams and players can do that, plus casual fans are able to better recognize when a match-up has meaning even if the brands involved aren't the biggest ones.

That last thing is key, which is also greatly aided by the improving marketing and broadcast quality. Every other major league (and US college sports) has the ability to get fans to buy in based on the context of the match, be it playoff implications, a #1 vs #3 showdown, or the chance for personal records. Casual sports fans are seeing this from MLS, and with an increasing number of very solid stadium scenes the league has that many more opportunities for showing games that are meaningful.

Put another way, the calibre of the product (both on and off the pitch) as seen on TV has improved greatly, and the league is bearing the fruit of those results.
Not sure about that, but it is a point not lost on ESPN and the Bundesliga who have signed a new broadcast arrangement in the US. Interesting to see how they do against MLS, which has many unknown teams and needs to focus on matches between teams who are at least building a national rep.

Also interesting that it runs through 2026 when the WC comes to the US.
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Old October 18th, 2019, 11:30 PM   #4125
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Also, comments form several folks on other boards suggest that while Saputo is a decent stadium it is relatively bare bones. Great for the 2.0 era but perhaps lacking compared to 3.0 models.
I was up there for the Atlanta United game last month, and Saputo does have some major downsides. Fantastic fans and an enthusiastic and welcoming supporter section, and good sight-lines from the stands, but the compliments end there. I was surprised to see the bathrooms are in cramped trailers. The food and drink selection was really bad, over-priced, and they ran out of a lot of stuff by the half. It doesn't create a great game-day experience for fans and families. They may also have been hurt a bit this year because the stadium is basically in the middle of a giant construction site right now. From the metro you have to walk a long plywood bridge through a dirt pit. I think they could step up their game just a bit, offer a few better local food and drink selections (why on earth don't they have poutine?) and refresh the bathrooms and they might get a good response.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 05:24 PM   #4126
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Originally Posted by shivtim View Post
I was up there for the Atlanta United game last month, and Saputo does have some major downsides. Fantastic fans and an enthusiastic and welcoming supporter section, and good sight-lines from the stands, but the compliments end there. I was surprised to see the bathrooms are in cramped trailers. The food and drink selection was really bad, over-priced, and they ran out of a lot of stuff by the half. It doesn't create a great game-day experience for fans and families. They may also have been hurt a bit this year because the stadium is basically in the middle of a giant construction site right now. From the metro you have to walk a long plywood bridge through a dirt pit. I think they could step up their game just a bit, offer a few better local food and drink selections (why on earth don't they have poutine?) and refresh the bathrooms and they might get a good response.
Sounds like a lot of the needs are for things that are behind the scenes or off the stadium property itself. Hopefully they get that sorted out.
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Old October 21st, 2019, 06:25 PM   #4127
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Average Attendance, Canadian Football League


In the CFL, average attendance is down across the board and has now fallen 7 years in a row. The Prairies continue to be the nation's football heartland while the sport is weakest in the 3 largest cities (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver). Toronto continues to be the worst football market in the country.


1. Saskatchewan Roughriders 30,543 -4.8%

2. Edmonton Eskimos 28,363 -10.0%

3. Calgary Stampeders 25,167 -0.5%

4. Winnipeg Blue Bombers 25,028 -6.0%

5. Hamilton Tiger-Cats 22,888 -3.0%

6. Ottawa RedBlacks 22,268 -5.6%

7. BC Lions 18,196 -9.4%

8. Montreal Alouettes 17,222 -3.6%

9. Toronto Argonauts 13,370 -3.7%


Average Attendance 2012-2019

2012: 28,191
2013: 27,006
2014: 25,286
2015: 24,733
2016: 24,692
2017: 24,644
2018: 23,956
2019: 22,786 (after 43 games)
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Old October 21st, 2019, 08:57 PM   #4128
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In the CFL, average attendance is down across the board and has now fallen 7 years in a row. The Prairies continue to be the nation's football heartland while the sport is weakest in the 3 largest cities (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver). Toronto continues to be the worst football market in the country.

...

Average Attendance 2012-2019

2012: 28,191
2013: 27,006
2014: 25,286
2015: 24,733
2016: 24,692
2017: 24,644
2018: 23,956
2019: 22,786 (after 43 games)
So what are your thoughts as to the causes and, more importantly, potential solutions?

- It's possible the presence of MLS teams in those 3 biggest markets is a factor in that it's consuming some fan attention and money during the same season, and likely is more popular with certain sponsor groups seeking a larger audience via the bi-national league.

- Are Canadians feeling the same way toward gridiron with regard to health effects and the soft push-back against the sport?

- Is the trend similar with the universities? Is the a correlation between where the university programs are located vs the professional teams? (ie: How many markets feature both pro and college teams?)

- How are TV ratings? A lot of fans in the States are simply consuming sports via home theaters and pubs vs seeing it live.
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 12:02 AM   #4129
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
So what are your thoughts as to the causes and, more importantly, potential solutions?

- It's possible the presence of MLS teams in those 3 biggest markets is a factor in that it's consuming some fan attention and money during the same season, and likely is more popular with certain sponsor groups seeking a larger audience via the bi-national league.
I wouldn't imagine so. Even in a sports-mad city like Seattle, several years ago it was determined there is a 3% crossover between Sounders and Seahawks season ticket holders. If I'm not mistaken it's a similar case in Atlanta.

It's just a different breed of supporter.

The usual culprit in this type of scenario is ticket prices and costs of living going up.
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Old October 22nd, 2019, 01:35 AM   #4130
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I wouldn't imagine so. Even in a sports-mad city like Seattle, several years ago it was determined there is a 3% crossover between Sounders and Seahawks season ticket holders. If I'm not mistaken it's a similar case in Atlanta.

It's just a different breed of supporter.

The usual culprit in this type of scenario is ticket prices and costs of living going up.
I think in the three markets it is different issues

Vancouver - cost of living make disposable income very discretionary and people are choosing to spend elsewhere or just not go - Whitecaps numbers were down this year, but the biggest reason is both teams were AWFUL this year.

Toronto - bottom line is the CFL and Argos have done a poor job staying relevant and marketing for a while and just have become insignificant in Toronto. Most is Toronto think the CFL is not "major league" enough and the core support they do have does not want to travel all the way Downtown.

Montreal - Team has been terrible for a few years, ownership is up in the air (and they need an owner that can market to both French and English fans) The team is much better and interest has started to pick back up
TV numbers in all of the markets are strong so it is possible to get some of the fans back, but it is difficult to beat watching on a 60"+ TV and Beer and Snacks at home. I think they need to continue to market to a younger demographic, make it an event and have in game experiences you can't get at home. It seems party decks, social areas are working and need to continue to grow

I see BC and Montreal bouncing back next year (especially if both have new ownership) to 20,000+
Toronto is the tougher nut to crack, it may take YEARS for them to crack 17-18,000 on a regular basis.

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Old October 22nd, 2019, 06:16 PM   #4131
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I wouldn't imagine so. Even in a sports-mad city like Seattle, several years ago it was determined there is a 3% crossover between Sounders and Seahawks season ticket holders. If I'm not mistaken it's a similar case in Atlanta.

It's just a different breed of supporter.

The usual culprit in this type of scenario is ticket prices and costs of living going up.
Normally I'm inclined to agree with you which is why I was curious to hear from a more local source if that holds true for those cities. I, regrettably, have never had the pleasure of visiting our northern neighbors. Yet!

(Came within 3 miles while skiing in Minnesota. That's close enough, right?! )
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Old October 27th, 2019, 07:18 AM   #4132
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So what are your thoughts as to the causes and, more importantly, potential solutions?

- It's possible the presence of MLS teams in those 3 biggest markets is a factor in that it's consuming some fan attention and money during the same season, and likely is more popular with certain sponsor groups seeking a larger audience via the bi-national league.

- Are Canadians feeling the same way toward gridiron with regard to health effects and the soft push-back against the sport?

- Is the trend similar with the universities? Is the a correlation between where the university programs are located vs the professional teams? (ie: How many markets feature both pro and college teams?)

- How are TV ratings? A lot of fans in the States are simply consuming sports via home theaters and pubs vs seeing it live.
It's a whole host of things converging at the same time. The CFL can not escape comparisons with the far wealthier and far more powerful NFL to the south. In Toronto and Vancouver there's the belief that the CFL is beneath them. Many people would rather go with no football at all than to associate themselves with the CFL. I don't see that mentality as strong in Montreal but it exists there too.

Nationally, there's a long term cultural shift that's been occurring for the last 40 years. Due to heavy immigration, this shift is most pronounced in the big 3 immigrant cities: Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Rather than assimilating, newcomers have simply replaced the domestic culture with the one from their homeland. They flat out reject things like football, baseball, Thanksgiving, Halloween, camping, domestic food, etc. It's not uncommon to find people in Toronto, for instance, who don't know who the Argonauts are, wouldn't know that there's a difference between Canadian and American football, don't know/care about the CFL's history, and certainly wouldn't call that sport 'football'.

There are no obvious solutions to turn things around. It bears mentioning that football and the CFL are still quite a big deal in 6 of the 9 markets: Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Ottawa. Attendance is down in these markets but it's more of a 1 year blip. The league has done most things right over the last 15 year's but will likely have to accept their new status in the big 3 cities as a vastly less relevant cultural phenomenon than they were pre-1980. In these markets it's more about stabilizing the teams financially and halting further erosion in the fan base.

The concussion issue and people preferring to watch at home/bars is a factor in Canada just like in the States. They purposely built the last 4 new CFL stadia smaller due to this. 24,000 - 26,000 seats is the new normal for CFL stadia although they did go bigger in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg (the 2 strongest markets).

I don't view MLS as a factor. Most soccer people here won't watch football period. MLS has simply given them what they wanted all along. Surprisingly, television ratings for CFL remain very strong. It's still 2nd only to the NHL although I can see a time when the NBA drops the CFL to 3rd. It's too early to tell if NBA tv viewership numbers represent a permanent increase or dependent on the fortunes of the Raptors.

University football interest has maintained a generally low level of support nationally. Quebec schools have far more support than elsewhere although you'll see the occasional event like the Panda Game that sells out TD Stadium (25,000 seats) in Ottawa. Btw, there is a correlation between the presence of the CFL and the strength/weakness of university football. Practically every university team that has decent support exists in a market with no CFL. Laval in Quebec City is the best example of that. Not only is support for Laval strong but they're quite aggressive about keeping the CFL out.

Other non-CFL cities have university football teams that periodically have decent (for Canada) support. SMU in Halifax, Sherbrooke in Sherbrooke, Queens in Kingston, Western in London, Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, and Laurier in Waterloo. The exceptions would be McMaster in Hamilton and the 2 Ottawa based schools (Carleton and Ottawa) that host the annual Panda Game. It bears mentioning that the rest of the year Carleton and Ottawa draw poorly. The Panda Game is well attended but it's really just an excuse to party/drink. Practically no one in the stands is actually watching the game.
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Old October 28th, 2019, 04:58 PM   #4133
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Thanks for the insight. Good stuff to know. Hopefully things level off and then turn upward.

Last question/thought: As a Yank I confess that I have a difficulty adapting to the CFL rules when I try to watch. I understand them but the differences for me detract from the game because I'm so used to the American model. Has there been any discussion or assessment if that mindset is common among Americans, and if so might that disconnect be something that is hampering CFL appeal to US viewers? Otherwise you'd think the CFL is the perfect answer for US fans craving gridiron during the NFL off season.

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Laval in Quebec City is the best example of that. Not only is support for Laval strong but they're quite aggressive about keeping the CFL out.
Ah. I wondered why I never hear QC mentioned as a CFL expansion candidate. Hopefully they find a 10th out there somewhere.
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Old November 13th, 2019, 04:52 AM   #4134
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Current averages for soccer leagues above 5,000 (including both domestic and continental club competitions). Due to no reliable data, doesn’t include Argentina and Saudi Arabia, both of which are likely to be above 5,000. In Argentina’s case, average attendance is probably between 15,000 and 20,000.

1. Europe: Champions League 43,648 (32 teams)
2. Germany: First Division 40,517 (18 teams)
3. England: First Division 39,359 (20 teams)
4. Spain: First Division 28,523 (20 teams)
5. Italy: First Division 26,700 (20 teams)
6. China: First Division 23,868 (16 teams)
7. South America: Copa Libertadores 23,568 (47 teams)
8. Europe: Europa League 23,465 (48 teams)
9. Mexico: First Division 22,882 (18 teams)
10. France: First Division 22,745 (20 teams)
11. Brazil: First Division 22,180 (20 teams)
12. USA/Canada: First Division 21,311 (24 teams)
13. Germany: Second Division 20,391 (18 teams)
14. Japan: First Division 20,366 (18 teams)
15. England: Second Division 18,667 (24 teams)
16. Russia: First Division 18,075 (16 teams)
17. Netherlands: First Division 17,445 (18 teams)
18. India: First Division 17,385 (10 teams)
19. South America: Sudamericana 15,971 (48 teams)
20. Scotland: First Division 15,122 (12 teams)
21. Asia: Champions League 14,756 (32 teams)
22. Turkey: First Division 14,457 (18 teams)
23. Portugal: First Division 11,958 (18 teams)
24. Australia: First Division 11,868 (11 teams)
25. Switzerland: First Division 11,415 (10 teams)
26. Belgium: First Division 11,072 (16 teams)
27. Poland: First Division 9,961 (16 teams)
28. Spain: Second Division 9,717 (22 teams)
29. Indonesia: First Division 9,611 (18 teams)
30. Iran: First Division 9,433 (16 teams)
31. China: Second Division 9,202
32. Sweden: First Division 9,162 (16 teams)
33. Germany: Third Division 8,693 (20 teams)
34. England: Third Division 8,440 (24 teams)
35. Colombia: First Division 8,250 (20 teams)
36. South Korea: First Division 8,065 (12 teams)
37. South Africa: First Division 7,831 (16 teams)
38. Greece: First Division 7,610 (14 teams)
39. Vietnam: First Division 7,463 (14 teams)
40. Chile: First Division 7,001 (16 teams)
41. France: Second Division 6,931 (20 teams)
42. Denmark: First Division 6,701 (14 teams)
43. Austria: First Division 6,556 (12 teams)
44. Italy: Second Division 6,060 (20 teams)
45. Thailand: First Division 6,045 (16 teams)
46. Malaysia: First Division 5,786 (12 teams)
47. Czech Republic: First Division 5,783 (16 teams)
48. Norway: First Division 5,778 (16 teams)
49. Brazil: Second Division 5,495 (20 teams)
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Old November 13th, 2019, 03:36 PM   #4135
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Current averages for soccer leagues above 5,000 (including both domestic and continental club competitions). Due to no reliable data, doesn’t include Argentina and Saudi Arabia, both of which are likely to be above 5,000. In Argentina’s case, average attendance is probably between 15,000 and 20,000.
Interesting list, I appreciate the effort you put in.

If you calculate the total attendance per league then the order will change around a lot. England overtaking Germany by a large margin at all levels. Spain and Italy catching up towards Germany substantially. France and Brazil would move above Mexico.

Also interesting that the English lower leagues are the only ones with a 24 team 46 match format.

Without doing the maths Scottish football probably still has the highest attendance per capita.
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Old November 13th, 2019, 04:20 PM   #4136
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Interesting list, I appreciate the effort you put in.

If you calculate the total attendance per league then the order will change around a lot. England overtaking Germany by a large margin at all levels. Spain and Italy catching up towards Germany substantially. France and Brazil would move above Mexico.

Also interesting that the English lower leagues are the only ones with a 24 team 46 match format.

Without doing the maths Scottish football probably still has the highest attendance per capita.
The reason I opted for averages over aggregates is because leagues are at different times of their season. Still early season across Europe, but US/Canada has finished up, Brazil and Japan about to finish up, etc etc. The average attendance gives a better snapshot in comparing the leagues as club averages won't fluctuate drastically from the early season to the end.

Other than what you mentioned about aggregate attendance, there are other variables that would make it harder to compare the leagues. If the Germans had to pay the prices the English do, you wonder where their attendances would be. And if English stadiums weren't constrained by all-seating, it would make a huge difference to averages.

I don't think there's any argument that the English pyramid is the best attended in the world when you take into account all variables.

The Bundesliga has long been the best attended domestic league in the world, but it never painted the full picture. Standing areas which boosted capacities, cheaper prices, and fewer teams to drag down attendances.

It is only with the recent boom in capacities at the top end of the English game that the PL has narrowed the gap.

Now just need for Bournemouth to get a new stadium, or to get relegated, and 40k+ average in PL should become the new normal.

In a fully optimized PL with the highest capacity grounds in the league, off the top of my head you'd probably be looking at 43k or so.
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Old November 13th, 2019, 04:53 PM   #4137
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Averages are the best for comparison. You can't make a perfect comparison. Even within London no-one would claim that West Ham are as well supported as Arsenal although the official attendances are currently similar. No-one knows how many would turn up at Manchester United or Bayern Munich if they each had an infinite number of seats.

Other interesting figures from your list are for India, the Spanish 2nd division and the Chinese 2nd division. The depth in Spain is a bit better than I had realised. The Indian and Chinese figures suggest the potential for a lot of development in those two enormous countries over the next 10-20 years.
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Old November 13th, 2019, 05:54 PM   #4138
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Keep in mind different leagues play different numbers of games, as well. The Bundesliga and MLS sides have 17 home matches per season, while Premier League and La Liga sides have 19 each, for example.
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Old November 13th, 2019, 06:29 PM   #4139
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Bundesliga is currently the only league out of Top 5 without 20-team championship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5portsF4n View Post
The Bundesliga has long been the best attended domestic league in the world, but it never painted the full picture. Standing areas which boosted capacities, cheaper prices, and fewer teams to drag down attendances.

It is only with the recent boom in capacities at the top end of the English game that the PL has narrowed the gap.

Now just need for Bournemouth to get a new stadium, or to get relegated, and 40k+ average in PL should become the new normal.

In a fully optimized PL with the highest capacity grounds in the league, off the top of my head you'd probably be looking at 43k or so.
You have an issue with BL being the best attended championship, what is it? I am pretty sure with 20-team league the gap would increase even further.

Just notice Union Berlin, a team from the capital, plays in front of 21k venue since their support over the years has been enormous. If they build a bigger stadium, which is very likely to happen, it would still be sold out. They would have better figures than Hertha, the local rivals. And Hertha doesn't even have their own ground.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 AM   #4140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5portsF4n View Post
Current averages for soccer leagues above 5,000 (including both domestic and continental club competitions). Due to no reliable data, doesn’t include Argentina and Saudi Arabia, both of which are likely to be above 5,000. In Argentina’s case, average attendance is probably between 15,000 and 20,000.

The equivalent Australian Football League figures for 2019 are:

Regular season: 35122
Finals: 62607

Overall: 36,317

18 teams, 22 regular season rounds.

This would slip in to 4th place on your list (which I know was for round-ball leagues, but, eh...).




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