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Old November 5th, 2014, 03:35 AM   #81
NoshowwithoutPunch
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Actually Lord Riccardo's new immigration policy:

One lucky Chinese, selected at random, to take just_trolling_again's place in Australia.

Maybe we could narrow the pool - one lucky Chinese currently being incarcerated or tortured for his/her political beliefs in some gulag in the north west, to swap his/her place in that gulag with our trollboy friend.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 03:51 AM   #82
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Rubbish.

First, I am happy to have whatever Singapore and HK (who are of course very different from each other) are doing.

Second, the statement at face value is correct. Tall buildings in Sydney, is like having tall buildings in Singapore or HK. The height in most people's minds is irrelevant. Only a few nutters on this board care about the height in metres. The rest just get on with life.

Third, count the number of buildings in either city that height. There aren't any in Singapore. Singapore is similarly restricted in height to what Sydney Metro Area or Melbourne are limited to.

HK has ICC at 480 metres. Can't think of any others.

Fourth, it isn't building height that gets Sydney people worked up when they think of Singapore or HK.
I was saying you can't really compare the two cities, Singapore to Hong Kong. Their skylines, layout and densities are very different. So the only reason the tabloid put them in the same boat is because they are both familiar names due to their economic influence in the Asia/Pacific region.

But suggesting Sydney is going to follow the Hong Kong route is sure to rile people up. Because people always think of the extreme case examples. Considering the rubbish scaremongering surrounding Barangaroo's Hotel and its many revisions. I don't think it is a good idea to point to a city that has built a near 1/2 km tower, on reclaimed land at its harbour edge.

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Old November 5th, 2014, 05:06 AM   #83
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Its so frustratingly obvious to most of us here on SSC that higher apartment towers are the missing link in Sydney's urban planning.

Singapore has amazing private condominium towers, and H DB ones too - and these cluster around well-planned MRT stations on an ever increasing network.

Only allowing 6-12 storeys at innumerable sites in Sydney is never going to address issues of density.

Heck, I'm personally sick of the fetish for reserves and parks every 10 yards in his suburban city as well, along with every new 6 storey block of flats requiring this wasted space as well.....

Why can't the short-sighted councils, nimbies and anti-development brigade see the irony of their views? Unless we build denser and higher we're never going to see viable public transport infrastructure and the sprawl will continue.

Personally, I adore visiting places like Singapore - where top quality malls are built above mrt stations and the places are buzzing from morning til night. This to me is community - not some bloody bike-path or community veggie patch
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Old November 5th, 2014, 06:20 AM   #84
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I'm sure back in the 70's and 80's Singapore and Hong Kong said "let's have tall buildings like Sydney!"
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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:44 AM   #85
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It's inaccurate statements like this that get people worked up. There is a big difference between 280m vs 480m.
And its the same in our beachside areas where they think highrise development will make it resemble the Gold Coast when the buildings will be probably be just a fifth or less of the size of what typically rises on the Gold Coast these days.

Some like to fearmonger others.

I also wish we had that mentality in the 1960's of just doing it. In the 1960's, Sydney was already for instance experimenting building over railway stations like at Hurstville and Kogarah. In fact Hurstville could have been the first railway station to have a highrise over it. It didn't happen because of financial issues.

Kogarah's retail centre above their station was meant to bigger with an office building.

I don't know what happened in terms of building over railway stations. That seemed to disappear until The Forum was built over St Leonards Station in the 1990's and it was only then we got the idea of what Transport Oriented Development could do to a community. Chatswood has got it right with its Metro Residences development.

And what about the plans for tallies stretching into our inner city in the 1960's. All gone too.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 08:25 AM   #86
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Back in the 1970s & 1980s, assuming you weren't taking the mickey, HK already had a lot of splendid towers so I doubt it was much aware of Sydney.

Just off the top of my head, 2 of the great Late Modern towers of the 1980s:

Hong Kong Shanghai Bank by Foster Associates;

Bank of China by I M Pei & Partners.

and they were definitely not the first as HK was already shooting skywards.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 03:16 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryinSydney View Post
Its so frustratingly obvious to most of us here on SSC that higher apartment towers are the missing link in Sydney's urban planning.

...

Only allowing 6-12 storeys at innumerable sites in Sydney is never going to address issues of density.
Lane Cove Council is looking at rezoning the area south west of the train station - see http://www.stleonardssouth.com.au/?page_id=241 for some ideas they had last month.

(click for high res version)


They seem to be taking the view that 12 storeys is about as tall as it should be when converting a "normal house" residential area to higher density. Are they wrong? Should they be putting 20 storey (or taller) towers there?

The hard part seems to be managing the transition between the "towers" and "houses" - especially since once you put apartments on a site it is hard to remove them later on.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 06:26 AM   #88
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Stay in the Kitchen.

And when you get back there, explain your alternative plan for accommodating on a small peninsula and island, over 8 million people, many trying to escape those evil Communist thugs you worship.
Geee, I thought you like highrises ???
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Old November 8th, 2014, 12:00 AM   #89
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The problem we have is not so much the highrises its the lack of infrastructure to handle the increased density. If you are increasingly density willy nilly it will wreak havoc on plumbing, electricity, roads, public transport, schools and shops.

What we really lack in this country are Govts willing to match the infrastructure cost increases with the density increases.
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Old November 8th, 2014, 10:59 PM   #90
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And developers/builders are already required to pay levies to provide the infrastructure. I wonder where that money is gone???
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Old November 8th, 2014, 11:41 PM   #91
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DEVELOPER LEVIES

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And developers/builders are already required to pay levies to provide the infrastructure. I wonder where that money is gone???
Good question. Ten years ago I investigated what Sydney Councils were doing with developer contributions, and found that nearly $1billion of developer contributions was sitting in deposit accounts earning say 5% when developers' cost of funding was say 9%. Much better that councils borrow to build infrastructure and recover the cost through the rates. This is what most Asian cities do.
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Old August 5th, 2015, 12:44 PM   #92
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Chris Johnson gave a 10 minute talk today on radio - go to the link and listen to the audio -
great talk on tall buildings and possibilities of super/mega talls in SYD by 2050

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/...05/4287738.htm

The World's Tallest Buildings - the power of the Skyscraper

Quote:
The world's major cities are out to prove themselves as being global leaders through building height.
Think of New York, the Gulf cities or Hong Kong and the image is of a vertical city.

Which of these cities is the Mount Everest?
Which Country has the most skyscrapers?

And where does Sydney sit in the pecking order?

Your teacher is Chris Johnson, CEO of Urban Taskforce and former NSW Government Architect.
Bates Smart vision mentioned in the talk..



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Old August 5th, 2015, 01:14 PM   #93
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The above vision will never happen...not within this century anyway. The whole purpose of them creating new CBD's in Parramatta, Chatswood, St. Leondards and even Blacktown and Liverpool is to avoid such concepts. I feel that Sydney CBD will become a heritage-style city with modern buildings, yes, but at same time complimenting both its old and its 20th century personality. I wouldn't be surprised if 40 years from now you won't be allowed to even drive within the 'old' city..
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Old August 5th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #94
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The above vision will never happen...not within this century anyway. The whole purpose of them creating new CBD's in Parramatta, Chatswood, St. Leondards and even Blacktown and Liverpool is to avoid such concepts.
What is the sense in trying to avoid such concepts, shouldn't we building on our best assets rather than funnelling development into remote hubs?
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Old August 5th, 2015, 02:31 PM   #95
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What is the sense in trying to avoid such concepts, shouldn't we building on our best assets rather than funnelling development into remote hubs?
I wasn't defending them, just stating on how i think they will approach this from what i'm seeing atm. I mean we are in the middle of the greatest housing boom in the history of Sydney yet COS is still trying hard to keep heights low and concepts more grounded. If they aren't budging now, when will they? In 2-3 years when a potential bubble will burst?
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Old August 5th, 2015, 10:17 PM   #96
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What is the sense in trying to avoid such concepts, shouldn't we building on our best assets rather than funnelling development into remote hubs?
Mainly because the infrastructure can't support a singular CBD as efficiently as it can many. Better to have mini-CBD's around transport hubs, to complement the main City, than to have one mega-CBD that becomes extremely resource hungry and choked by traffic and congested public transport.

I think this city's best asset is in fact its decentralised nature.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 12:47 AM   #97
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Mainly because the infrastructure can't support a singular CBD as efficiently as it can many. Better to have mini-CBD's around transport hubs, to complement the main City, than to have one mega-CBD that becomes extremely resource hungry and choked by traffic and congested public transport.

I think this city's best asset is in fact its decentralised nature.
I disagree, for transportation that can move large numbers of people works more efficiently with centralisation. Many routes between suburbs and mini-CBDs end up being infrequently patronised, and hence have infrequent public transport service with few options out side of normal business hours.
A large number of mini-CBD's is going to encourage car use, which will burden a road infrastructure with many more vehicles. Where the CBD is already highly public transport centric. This city lacks the density and infrastructure to handle decentralisation, but has a rail network that is able to handle centralisation.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 06:50 AM   #98
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There is some nice towers getting built in Sydney but it
really NEEDS some 400-600m towers

the rest of the world is leaving Sydney behind

Even Brisbane and the Gold Coast have taller towers and both cities are so much smaller
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Old August 6th, 2015, 09:18 AM   #99
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There is some nice towers getting built in Sydney but it
really NEEDS some 400-600m towers

the rest of the world is leaving Sydney behind

Even Brisbane and the Gold Coast have taller towers and both cities are so much smaller
Agree and Brisbane is about to get up to 6 new towers that are tall as over the next few years.

I don't think a city needs to have super talls, I don't see the point of ten or twenty in the Sydney CBD, but certainly some would not go astray especially residential ones. Up around the UTS area, although I'd hate to see these big things around Newtown, but that's what may happen.

As for hubs, again I don't live in Sydney now, but having lived and spent so much time there, I liked living in North Ryde and not having to go into the city. I'd hate to live at Campbelltown but. The outer suburbs especially of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to me need infrastructure and hubs so you go into the city for pleasure or shopping only.

My point is, this has been happening for decades in S & M and is now happening in Bris. Hubs are a good idea - I'd like to see more decentralised cities especially our three big east coast ones. Those that want to live in the city if they can afford great, but at my age I'd rather what I have now outer rim suburbs with a good transport access to the city, but still get the essentials that are needed.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 12:19 PM   #100
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I disagree, for transportation that can move large numbers of people works more efficiently with centralisation. Many routes between suburbs and mini-CBDs end up being infrequently patronised, and hence have infrequent public transport service with few options out side of normal business hours.
A large number of mini-CBD's is going to encourage car use, which will burden a road infrastructure with many more vehicles. Where the CBD is already highly public transport centric. This city lacks the density and infrastructure to handle decentralisation, but has a rail network that is able to handle centralisation.
Sydney is already so spread out. Why encourage people to travel 30-40km into the city when existing centres can be built up? Especially in some dreamed up magical transport system that Sydney is decades away from being brave enough to take on. Creating better employment opportunities in these satellite CBDs and supporting it with manageable transport upgrades will reduce car dependence. We're not talking about a couple of outer suburban town centres with a strip of 2-level shops - Parramatta, Penrith etc already have significant commercial areas and population catchments. People would prefer to travel 10km than 40km. I know it's just a fantasy sketch up, but that image above isn't how I want Sydney CBD to grow. Literally nothing different outside the CBD from today.
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