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Old September 8th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #61
metroman
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Back to the subject of a suitable aircraft for the air combat role. Tornadoes must be getting a bit cheaper by now. 18-24 would be suitable. Or maybe some secondhand Hornets from the Americans. Any suggestion?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 05:05 PM   #62
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As much as I love aviation the question that remains is why?
What for and where would a RNZAF combat wing be used?
Buying soon to be out of date technology would mean it woudn't be of any use deploying on a foreign mission and there aren't any insurgent groups operating in the NZ wilderness to be picked off.
F18s are very sexy beasts but other than that why would NZ purchase them?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #63
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Obviously NZ is a sovereign nation but IMO would be better off aligning its resources with Australia and rationalising defences between both countries which would be more cost effective.
I acknowledge however this wouldn't be well received amongst NZ military enthusiasts.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:53 AM   #64
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I agree. We have already scaled back our military capacities and reconfigured our forces to operate within UN peacekeeping operations. We already work very closely with Australia on defense, some specific tailoring can't help.

I'm of the view that if we were to reinstate a combat wing of the airforce the only feasible way to go is top of the line. No point spending money on obsolete air superiority fighters. Given we would likely be up against planes like the massively capable SU-27, of which many nations in the pacific operate only, the very best would stand a shit show. Personally I don't see us in that role, far too costly for a nation of 4 mill. Especially when there is still the possibility (i think?) that Australia will be getting its lucky mitts on f-22 raptors (sooner or later no doubt). In that case we'll leave the combat flyin to you chaps. I think it would be more suitable to spend the money on another frigate or two with some more support toys like seasprites and NH90 helicopters and better ground equipment . We could then configure that in with Ozzie forces.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #65
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Agreed. NZ's combat wing was already useless by the mid 1950s. NZ purchaced the A4-K Skyhawks at the same time that they were being fased out of US military service. NZ essentially had a totally useless air combat wing untill it was dispanded.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:45 AM   #66
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The herald has a debate going on at the moment on the state of NZ military forces. Read only if you dare.

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/you...&commentpage=1

By and large a maddening display of people not letting ignorance get in the way of forming a strong opinion.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:02 AM   #67
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Yes, we need some serious jet planes to keep the filthy foreign mits off our dairy cows and radiata pine. You all know they covet it .........
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Old September 9th, 2008, 09:55 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neitzsche View Post
The herald has a debate going on at the moment on the state of NZ military forces. Read only if you dare.

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/you...&commentpage=1

By and large a maddening display of people not letting ignorance get in the way of forming a strong opinion.
Oh goodness
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Old September 9th, 2008, 10:00 AM   #69
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I'm interested to know Metroman's motives for wanting NZ to invest in a combat air arm.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:17 PM   #70
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I was considering a massive rearmament program which involved making New Zealand the most powerful country in the Asia Pacific. I was considering investing in a few aircraft carriers and introducing the draft to start things off.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neitzsche View Post
The herald has a debate going on at the moment on the state of NZ military forces. Read only if you dare.

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/you...&commentpage=1

By and large a maddening display of people not letting ignorance get in the way of forming a strong opinion.
Interesting reading...on the flip side if % of GDP on defence spending were to increase something else would have to give ie. health/education etc etc.
Can NZ really afford the increase.
There is a fine balance I'm sure but where there's spending in one area there's bound to be cuts in others. NZ's economy can't afford both. Obviously priorities will come into play, defence currently doesn't appear to be one of them. Is there an election looming ?
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroman View Post
I was considering a massive rearmament program which involved making New Zealand the most powerful country in the Asia Pacific. I was considering investing in a few aircraft carriers and introducing the draft to start things off.
Thanks for bumping this thread with your useless exercise in uselessness.

National voter right?
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Old September 9th, 2008, 05:02 PM   #73
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Not really. Seriously I think defence will feature on the horizon, at the moment it doesn't have a huge priority. There has been some spending in recent years. Probably if the region became a little less stable it would have a higher priority. An aircombat role for New Zealand, will eventually become something which is necessary.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 05:30 PM   #74
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The only country capable of attacking NZ is the US my friend.
They have whole military geared to waging agressive war on other people's turf.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
The only country capable of attacking NZ is the US my friend.
They have whole military geared to waging agressive war on other people's turf.
Don't forget Oz. They are one of the few nations in the region with a military tooled for external force projection (instead of being geared for internal security). China is slowly working their way towards a blue water navy, but I know of no chinese military doctrine that is based on anything other internal issues (taiwan included) and defence. They are striving to maintain a retaliatory nuclear strike capability. Fun fun.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 12:30 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroman View Post
I was considering a massive rearmament program which involved making New Zealand the most powerful country in the Asia Pacific. I was considering investing in a few aircraft carriers and introducing the draft to start things off.
Geez not all of us divulge our sexual fantasies quite so clearly on this forum....
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Old September 10th, 2008, 01:01 AM   #77
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Quite

@Neitzsche. I suspected you might remind me that Australia was the other.
It's funny that people should be concerned about boosting our defences when it is our 'friends' that are the ones with the capability to attack us. So who would we protecting ourselves against one might ask?
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Old September 10th, 2008, 01:06 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Man View Post
We need a bigger and better army. We should make sure New Zealand is a country that people don't **** with. We should have sent some troops to the Pitcairn Islands to deal with the 'funny business' that goes on there!
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Old September 10th, 2008, 01:09 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoluBoy View Post
They should buy at least two C-17's as well.Production of these is due to stop in 2009.Maybe the Govt might be lucky enuff to secure a good deal on an "end of line" order.
U know one of these babies cost 150 million NET, cost of support and running one of these add 17-20 million per calendar year.

This does not include spare parts, crew and ground handling. You are talking annual cost in region of 30-35 million per unit.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 01:28 AM   #80
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yes please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post

Quite

@Neitzsche. I suspected you might remind me that Australia was the other.
It's funny that people should be concerned about boosting our defences when it is our 'friends' that are the ones with the capability to attack us. So who would we protecting ourselves against one might ask?
You know me well. Kinda needs to be pointed out that no one is more dangerous than Europeans. We're the kingpins of death and destruction, the merchants of chaos and mayhem. Sadly we also fabulous at convincing ourselves that somehow its all for a righteous cause and we're on the 'good' side.

war is dumb
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