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Old November 15th, 2019, 06:13 AM   #17881
eddyb
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The strategy we've applied is lets build a slow public transport network. Then we'll allow the road network to become congested - thus forcing people to use public transport in some circumstances - notably CBDs.

Its a default strategy. This was never planned. It just happened. We've never seriously asked the question what would a public transport network look like that is strongly competitive with car travel for most non-local journeys. And by non-local I mean anything that if taken by car would mean traversal of 10 km or more of arterial or motorway standard roads. That last detail is important because its the major roads that cost a lot of money to build.

If you choose to simply give up and never build a more competitive (faster) public transport network then its understandable if your world view is about making everything a CBD. The problem with this approach is that it leaves a lot of people out of the picture. People who live in the burbs. People who cannot afford a million dollar apartment. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mind high density development and walkable inner urban areas. Its just not a panacea.

We've known for a long time that road networks congest to the point where its faster/easier to take public transport. One way to state this is that the speed of the road network will approximate the speed of the competing and equivalent public transport journey. Because this is an equilibrium there is a flip side. Simply stated.

The speed of the road network is determined by the speed of the public transport network.

Now a lot of people either haven't made that connection, or don't want to. You don't cure road congestion by building more road. You cure road congestion by building fast public transport. The faster the better. Because the faster the public transport is, the faster will be the road network. (Yes, this only holds true so long as there is genuine competition).

So what I'm saying here is Khaul. Yes we can make better inner urban areas. But if your purpose is to get people out of cars en masse, you're going to have to solve problems on physical scales that are only solved by fast trains - not light rail (as much as I like light rail).

And (nothing personal) but I have met urban planners who are so transfixed by their ideas that they literally believe you can just go and plan a perfect city and somehow everyone will show up and live there and abandon their family homes and everyone will live in a high rise, walkable, nirvana. Aint gonna happen. Planning will help to avoid the mistakes of the past for sure, and deal with growth. But there's millions of people in this country who need better, faster public transport who are never going to step foot on George Street.
A bus driver once said to me that everybody wants a bus stop outside their house and go directly to their destination.

Yes the problem is getting people to that bus stop so the bus is fast on the bigger roads and there are many ways this could be done apart from walking there are bikes, electric scooters and people could stroll there with a stroller but you need a fast bus like my trailerbus to take them but nobody even here shows any interest whatsoever. https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mod...e-trailer-2012
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Old November 15th, 2019, 09:43 AM   #17882
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Squatted on (land grants to mates) then formalised...
No, not really. Inner Sydney land was divided between Crown and Church purposes and literally any free person who'd come to work land.

The housing stock that remains in the inner urban suburbs (from the pre-tram era) are the better quality workers housing. Most of this land was not farm/grazing land and I understand its land tenure is complex.

In the early 20th Century it's mostly commercial pressure mostly forced torrens subdivision in the east and inner west of commercial farm and grazing land. Tram lines and then the motor car facilitated this. But tram lines ran to existing villages and then development followed; subdivision on speculative transport projects was not common.

Squatters and the whole peculiar rural aristocracy thing it brought didn't exist in the Sydney basin.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 10:24 AM   #17883
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For a laugh, here's what feels like the latest episode of Utopia. Possibly one of the most bureaucratic double-speak videos TfNSW have put out.

https://youtu.be/SQdj2MsakBs
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Old November 15th, 2019, 10:46 AM   #17884
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wow, someone GIPA request that Central Station model!
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Old November 15th, 2019, 01:14 PM   #17885
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wow, someone GIPA request that Central Station model!
Probably rejected for national security concerns. Can't have terrorists studying the best place to plant a bomb. (hello asio)

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Originally Posted by AtD View Post
For a laugh, here's what feels like the latest episode of Utopia. Possibly one of the most bureaucratic double-speak videos TfNSW have put out.

https://youtu.be/SQdj2MsakBs
I could imagine how this would go down in the meeting room.

"We're trying to make this extremely detailed 3D model so engineers have a framework to base all their work off of".

"Well, how do we communicate this to the public?"

"Uhhh...I guess we could call it a detailed 3D model of Central Station"

"That hasn't got much pizzazz. How about a digital engineering framework?"
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Old November 15th, 2019, 02:18 PM   #17886
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Its a 4D model..
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Old November 15th, 2019, 03:09 PM   #17887
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Probably rejected for national security concerns. Can't have terrorists studying the best place to plant a bomb. (hello asio)



I could imagine how this would go down in the meeting room.

"We're trying to make this extremely detailed 3D model so engineers have a framework to base all their work off of".

"Well, how do we communicate this to the public?"

"Uhhh...I guess we could call it a detailed 3D model of Central Station"

"That hasn't got much pizzazz. How about a digital engineering framework?"
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Old November 15th, 2019, 06:24 PM   #17888
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Its a 4D model..
A model of this?


http://vicsig.net/photo/11464
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Old November 16th, 2019, 03:12 AM   #17889
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Ooo.. a joke!
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Old November 16th, 2019, 08:53 AM   #17890
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wow, someone GIPA request that Central Station model!
Would this 3d one do https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mod...entral-station
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Old November 16th, 2019, 08:55 AM   #17891
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Good enough for government work...
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Old November 16th, 2019, 10:45 PM   #17892
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https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/r...0191112-p539qy

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As the RBA runs out of room to cut interest rates, Dr Lowe has repeatedly called for government fiscal policy, such as infrastructure spending, to help stimulate the economy.
This is why I get tired of people going "there isn't enough money for that" and why I get tired of rail enthusiasts demonstrating learned helplessness and constantly screaming "fantasy" if you talk about ambitious new infrastructure.

In reality we should be spending a lot of money on infrastructure, right now.
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Old November 16th, 2019, 11:23 PM   #17893
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Yes, the federal government should spend more on infrastructure, public transport in particular. However, the countercyclical effects of this spending are dubious as projects are never ready when they should be. It is best to assign a constant share of the GDP to infrastructure and let automatic stabilisers take care of smoothing the cycle.

And yes, there is plenty of money. And if we didn't have the second lowest taxes in the OECD there would be a lot more.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 06:34 AM   #17894
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Zoom

We can easily get things moving if we have some sort of war as nobody needs a business case for that.

If Scomo prints more he has to watch our housing and stock bubble doesn't get worse.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 07:56 AM   #17895
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Yes, the federal government should spend more on infrastructure, public transport in particular. However, the countercyclical effects of this spending are dubious as projects are never ready when they should be. It is best to assign a constant share of the GDP to infrastructure and let automatic stabilisers take care of smoothing the cycle.

And yes, there is plenty of money. And if we didn't have the second lowest taxes in the OECD there would be a lot more.
Well, that depends on what the present "cycle" actually looks like, doesn't it. Take a look at Japan for instance.

Also, its not just about constant share - its also about what that share is. We are low on the list of comparable countries in terms of infrastructure spend. I'm reminded of how good the infrastructure is in Sweden despite some fairly harsh geography and half our population.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 07:58 AM   #17896
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Zoom

We can easily get things moving if we have some sort of war as nobody needs a business case for that.

If Scomo prints more he has to watch our housing and stock bubble doesn't get worse.
Yes well, we need to declare war on New Zealand. Been a while since we've done that. Scomo, like his colleagues, is clueless.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 10:17 PM   #17897
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Meanwhile... https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...08-p538r7.html
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Old November 18th, 2019, 02:28 AM   #17898
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https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/new...-opal-parkride
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Real-time parking availability for Opal Park&Ride

Published 17 Nov 2019

Transport for NSW is launching a new trial that allows customers to see how many spaces are available at four Opal Park&Ride car parks before they decide to drive there.

A TfNSW spokesperson said the innovative solution will enable public transport customers to plan their journey more efficiently before leaving home and further improve customer experience at commuter car parks.

“Customers can access real-time car park occupancy data via an app before they jump in the car and decide whether to make alternative arrangements like walking, cycling or catching public transport,” the TfNSW spokesperson said.

“Opal Park&Ride is about ensuring car parks are saved for their intended purpose – for those travelling on public transport and we hope this new trial will make customers more informed about their transport options.”

Transport for NSW has installed smart parking systems at Opal Park&Ride car parks at Seven Hills, Kogarah, Ashfield and Manly Vale, enabling car park occupancy data to be collected and released on the Open Data Hub. The information is now available to a select group of endorsed third party app developers.

“AnyTrip is the first third party app developer to support this trial. The real-time car park feature will provide customers with an approximate number of parking spaces available at each location along with predictive occupancy patterns based on historical data.”

Opal Park&Ride protects parking spaces for genuine public transport customers by giving them up to 18 hours free parking each day when they tap on and off with their Opal card. Those who don’t qualify for free parking will be charged $30 on weekdays and $10 on weekends.
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Old November 18th, 2019, 02:31 AM   #17899
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The true evolution into a TfL knockoff is almost complete.... with many of the same employees too!
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Old November 18th, 2019, 03:07 AM   #17900
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This will be invaluable on the NW line, the issue being a source of some angst out there. (Alternatively they could provide some actually decent feeder bus services and extend the on-demand areas.)
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