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Old June 10th, 2019, 11:30 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Planey28 View Post
For now.
Population density is not high enough to support and underground metro much as I'd like one.

As for a 'network' the hub, effectively, is still being expanded. Once these have been better established the network can expand.

And if you look at any London underground tunneling programme, disruption still can occur at surface level which has to be mitigated both financially and physically.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 11:40 PM   #262
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Population density is not high enough to support and underground metro much as I'd like one.

As for a 'network' the hub, effectively, is still being expanded. Once these have been better established the network can expand.

And if you look at any London underground tunneling programme, disruption still can occur at surface level which has to be mitigated both financially and physically.
We probably won't see new tunnelling until 2050 onwards, but additional metro extensions might come sooner than you'd think.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 12:35 AM   #263
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Population density is not high enough to support and underground metro much as I'd like one.

A bit confused with your logic here Typhoon.
In the UK, though only partial systems, we have undergrounds in Newcastle, (pop,280.000) Liverpool (pop 470.000) Glasgow (pop 600.000) in France wider underground networks exist in Marseille (pop 870.000) Lyon (pop 512.000) Rennes (pop 250.000).
So do these cities have "denser" populations than Birmingham (pop 1.14 m) million) that allow them to support undergrounds?
I think its all about THE MONEY and we all know where that is!
Birmingham on a number of key routes could easily support an underground.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 10:55 AM   #264
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A bit confused with your logic here Typhoon.
In the UK, though only partial systems, we have undergrounds in Newcastle, (pop,280.000) Liverpool (pop 470.000) Glasgow (pop 600.000) in France wider underground networks exist in Marseille (pop 870.000) Lyon (pop 512.000) Rennes (pop 250.000).
So do these cities have "denser" populations than Birmingham (pop 1.14 m) million) that allow them to support undergrounds?
I think its all about THE MONEY and we all know where that is!
Birmingham on a number of key routes could easily support an underground.
Remember that Birmingham's heavy rail network already acts like an 'S-Bahn.' The cross-city line, for instance, has trains every 10 minutes, which is pretty much metro-like. Building an underground in this corridor would just be duplication.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 04:38 PM   #265
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Remember that Birmingham's heavy rail network already acts like an 'S-Bahn.' The cross-city line, for instance, has trains every 10 minutes, which is pretty much metro-like. Building an underground in this corridor would just be duplication.
I agree with your point about duplication and the fact that we could already have a good transport system, however,
The trains aren't large enough to cope with the volume of passengers at this time. And trains being trains they cant of course add extra carriages. The conductors would probably moan to the union about extra 'responsibility' - despite conductors in Birmingham not appearing in carriages to check tickets, ever.
The train service and its staff need to be more flexible to the needs of its customers during this period of work in the city. They need to look at the state of play now the works have started and have the balls sort something out.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 08:21 PM   #266
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I agree with your point about duplication and the fact that we could already have a good transport system, however,
The trains aren't large enough to cope with the volume of passengers at this time. And trains being trains they cant of course add extra carriages. The conductors would probably moan to the union about extra 'responsibility' - despite conductors in Birmingham not appearing in carriages to check tickets, ever.
The train service and its staff need to be more flexible to the needs of its customers during this period of work in the city. They need to look at the state of play now the works have started and have the balls sort something out.
We have a load of Aventra units arriving next year, will these supplement the existing rolling stock or are they replacing outgoing units do we know? I'd like to think that 'new' also means 'more' allowing for longer trains at peak times. Plus the Aventra is being used on the Elizabeth line in London, so the carriage configuration may allow for more standing a la London underground
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Old June 11th, 2019, 09:05 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Typhoon2000 View Post
Population density is not high enough to support and underground metro much as I'd like one.

As for a 'network' the hub, effectively, is still being expanded. Once these have been better established the network can expand.

And if you look at any London underground tunneling programme, disruption still can occur at surface level which has to be mitigated both financially and physically.
I meant in terms of the Metro terminus.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #268
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Not sure if people have seen this. I'm guessing it's similar to GM's spatial framework doc

https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/2525/a...-corridors.pdf

some indications of metro route through Smithfield/Sherlock street etc. 2020-25 on the plan
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Old June 13th, 2019, 08:04 AM   #269
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Remember that Birmingham's heavy rail network already acts like an 'S-Bahn.' The cross-city line, for instance, has trains every 10 minutes, which is pretty much metro-like. Building an underground in this corridor would just be duplication.
Which, south of BNS is SHARED with cross country services to Bristol and the South West, Gloucester/Cardiff and Worcester Foregate Street and Hereford. Which often causes problems. Rethink needed.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 12:10 PM   #270
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Which, south of BNS is SHARED with cross country services to Bristol and the South West, Gloucester/Cardiff and Worcester Foregate Street and Hereford. Which often causes problems. Rethink needed.
BNS is Barnes in the London Borough of Richmond. The station code for New Street is BHM.

And yes, it is shared, and sometimes problems occur. This is true of a lot of more heavily trafficked mixed traffic railways. Are the marginal gains in resilience worthy of duplicating an entire railway corridor with expensive tunnelling, when that money could be more profitably invested somewhere else in the West Midlands? Especially when there's less expensive interventions which could raise resilience for a fraction of the cost. I'd start with cutting down all the trees in the lineside and replace them with evergreens.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 12:29 PM   #271
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Hope, naivety, stupidity. Take your pick, nothing makes sense anymore when it comes to these works and how disruptive they are. Disruption beyond just the immediate area now.
Businesses on Broad Street must be suffering and anyone who lives to the east of the city and needs to travel in now suffering, just for a tram to take people to..... Spearmint rhino!
West

To be fair this tram route is badly needed. Most commuters arriving into work by train do so into Snow Hill/Moor Street or New Street, yet there's a massive amount who work in and around Fiveways and the links to it are dreadful. Able bodied people can walk it in half and hour but it's simply not acceptable in this day and age, especially with the British weather to contend with.

Let us not forget also that by the time the Hagley Road tram stop is fully operational it will sit opposite the Garden Square development.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 12:49 PM   #272
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Not only does this connect the two big business districts, but Broad Street is, like it or not, the mainstream nightlife hotspot of town. If this was America we'd be calling it Downtown.
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Old June 15th, 2019, 06:09 PM   #273
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Old June 17th, 2019, 01:26 AM   #274
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Not only does this connect the two big business districts, but Broad Street is, like it or not, the mainstream nightlife hotspot of town. If this was America we'd be calling it Downtown.
Whereas here it's just 'town'.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 07:54 AM   #275
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We have a load of Aventra units arriving next year, will these supplement the existing rolling stock or are they replacing outgoing units do we know? I'd like to think that 'new' also means 'more' allowing for longer trains at peak times. Plus the Aventra is being used on the Elizabeth line in London, so the carriage configuration may allow for more standing a la London underground
As no-one else has replied to this, I can confirm that the Aventras will replace the Class 323s on the Cross City line.

There will indeed be more carriages, so there will be an end to three-car services on Cross City.

The press release below specifies increased capacity for 85,000 additional passengers into Birmingham and London at peak times - ie conflating WMT's regional services with their long-distance brand, London North Western, which includes the stopping services from New Street to Euston via Northampton.

http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/news...ains-welcomed/

I'm sure more detailed information on plans for regional services is available online if you dig it out.

The Aventras won't necessarily have the same internal layout as those on Crossrail, but they will certainly be more metro-like in style, reflecting the huge increase in passengers since the line was electrified at the end of the last century. A problem with the 323s is the narrowness of the doors.

On the Snow Hill Lines, the new diesel trains ordered from CAF (who supplied the current Midland Metro trams) will supplement the existing, and still relatively new, Class 172s. Other types of diesel currently used in the region will be moved elsewhere.

It will give the region an impressively modern fleet, albeit one with far too many diesels in it.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 08:08 AM   #276
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Do the Aventras have cab end doors?
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Old June 17th, 2019, 01:11 PM   #277
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Good to see the start of works on phase 3 with the demolition of the low-level wall dividing the carriageway on the 5 ways underpass.


Westside Tramway Extension Phase 3
by metrogogo, on Flickr


Westside Tramway Extension Phase 3
by metrogogo, on Flickr


Westside Tramway Extension Phase 3
by metrogogo, on Flickr
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Old June 17th, 2019, 02:10 PM   #278
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Does anyone use this route to commute regularly? Have we seen an increase in congestion since the underpass was closed?

Whenever I use Five Ways, I don't see a large volume of traffic using the underpass so was hoping it wouldn't have a large impact.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 02:22 PM   #279
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Does anyone use this route to commute regularly? Have we seen an increase in congestion since the underpass was closed?

Whenever I use Five Ways, I don't see a large volume of traffic using the underpass so was hoping it wouldn't have a large impact.
Its increased a little as the buses were mainly using the underpass. I still think that the underpass should've been constructed between Islington Row Middleway. The council must regret constructing it through Broad Street.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 07:21 PM   #280
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As no-one else has replied to this, I can confirm that the Aventras will replace the Class 323s on the Cross City line.

There will indeed be more carriages, so there will be an end to three-car services on Cross City.


It will give the region an impressively modern fleet, albeit one with far too many diesels in it.
I understand that the new trains on the cross city line will be in six coach configuration, hence doubling of current capacity. There will also be more trains running in the evenings, hopefully running later than now with the last train to Sutton Coldfield leaving new street at 11:15. I’m assuming that all the stations on the route can handle trains of this length, I’m guessing that many will not be.
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