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Old June 1st, 2019, 10:37 PM   #1801
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Ukraine’s share in the USSR’s GDP was 17%. After the collapse of the USSR, we received our share of planes, missiles and other weapons. Once again, I want to remind you that the Russian Federation has received ~70% of all weapons of the former Soviet Union, almost all nuclear weapons and the entire ocean fleet that was created by a joint effort of the all 15 republics, so don't try to present Russia as a victim.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 10:44 PM   #1802
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I am not presenting them as victims. I am just talking about the contracts, property and obligations. Antonov airlines had no right to keep those things.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 11:29 PM   #1803
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I can repeat a few more times that, since August 1991, Ukraine did not recognize Soviet laws and old contracts. Russia could have challenged this decision in international courts but didn't do it, so the question is closed.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 11:39 PM   #1804
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Well, Ukraine can't define a contract which was concluded between Soviet air force and a company. It can not disrespect someones ownership. It has no authorization to do that. Pacta sunt servanda.

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Russia could have challenged this decision in international courts but didn't do it, so the question is closed.
So what? It's a fact that Antonov airlines obtained two airplanes against the law.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 12:22 AM   #1805
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What law? Soviet?
I can repeat to you a thousand times what, since August 1991, Ukraine did not recognize Soviet laws. We also did not recognize the Soviet government, the Soviet Armed Forces, including the Soviet Air Force.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 12:29 AM   #1806
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What law? Soviet?
This proves that you are ignorant and that you don't know what are you talking about. The contract made during the Soviet rule is lawful even though USSR broke up. Imagine that all the contracts made before August 1991. ceased to exist after Ukraine declared independence. That would lead to complete chaos.

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I can repeat to you a thousand times what, since August 1991, Ukraine did not recognize Soviet laws. We also did not recognize the Soviet government, the Soviet Armed Forces, including the Soviet Air Force.
Again, I can repeat more than you that Anotnov airlines obtained those two aircraft against its own country laws.

Soviet air force was present and operational on Ukrainian soil even in 1992.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 12:51 AM   #1807
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In 1992? Really?

It was not the Soviet but the Russian Air Force.
An additional interstate agreement was concluded for these military units for the transitional period, so any comparisons are incorrect.

*The Soviet Air Force officially ceased to exist in December 1991.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 12:55 AM   #1808
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Some units were under the command of CIS.

Never heard that 184 TBAP was Russian, for example. Commander of this unit sworn oath to Kiev in mid 1992.

We also went trough dissolution and contracts didn't ceased to exist when the federal country was gone.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 11:13 AM   #1809
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you guys must have missed my warning about bringing in the former Yugoslavia here (unless it is directly related to Antonov such as sales or support). Do it again and you are both gone.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 11:51 AM   #1810
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@-III-

- The CIS and the USSR are completely different state entities. Moreover, Ukraine has never signed the CIS Charter.
- Such relations were regulated by interstate agreements between Ukraine and Russia through the mediation of the United States. Other states of the former USSR did not participate in these agreements.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 02:45 PM   #1811
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Let us talk about production... Antonov said that it will produce 8 airplanes per year. Today is 02.06.2019. and we haven't seen any of them. What is going on in the factory?
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Old June 5th, 2019, 01:34 AM   #1812
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While I appreciate these retro pictures
this is a NEWS and DISCUSSION thread. If any photos are posted, they should be related to news

Photos go here where we already have a variety of Antonov pics
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forum...043&order=desc
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Old June 5th, 2019, 10:47 PM   #1813
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So you want news? It is hard to get news because nothing's going on BUT since you were so polite I have something for you.

The former deputy of general constructor of Antonov design bureau, engineer Anatoly Vovnyako had an interview 2 or 3 days ago (edit: the interview was earlier but this text was published 2-3 days ago). He spoke about current situation in Antonov company.

He criticized actual leadership. In his interview he said that the downfall began with Dmitro Kiva who dismissed educated people and appointed people who would listen to him. This was not the first happening because P.V. Balabuyev did the same thing back in the 90s but he had better men and workers. After Kiva has left the company, his men brought their own etc.

Speaking of replacement of Russian parts, Vovyanko said that Antonov never managed to do that in case of An-158 and that were all lies told to the public. He also said that there are no buyers for An-158 and that announced replacement of Russian parts will increase the price so no one would be interested. Antonov is known for lower prices than his western counterparts.

He also showed doubt about cooperation with Boeing.

Vovyanko said that An-132D is based on 50 year old An-32 and that Antonov company had much better solution - a modernized An-74 with modern cockpit and other improvements. Why did Kiva offer An-132D? Because he had some unfinished An-32s and because a development of a completly new plane would cost so much. Now the An-132D project is put to a halt because Saudi Arabia canceled everything.

He warned Antonovs leadership that Turkey doesn't need An-188 because they already participate in A400 project and that there is no interest. Moreover, company lied about An-188 future performance. How does he prove that? Well, An-188 is based on An-70. Company states that An-188 will carry 60 tonnes. An-70 can carry 47 tonnes. With the same air frame, An-188 will not be able to carry more than 40 tonnes. He also mentioned An-178 and said that it will not be able to replace An-12 because its carrying capacity is lower.

He said that only good prospect here are An-148 and An-158 but there are no parts from Russia to complete them. Even if they manage somehow to finish them nobody will buy that because of the price raised by western parts. Vovyanko states that there are 8 unfinished air frames in the factory and could also see that on the pictures I've posted.

He underlines that Antonov doesn't produce or create anything. They are just repairing, modernizing and maintaining existing aircraft. The income is generated by Antonov airlines, not by the production.

Since 2005. one and a half billion of Euros was stolen for Antonov by his leadership and politicians. Antonov airlines cargo planes fly empty with no cargo in 70% of flights and that was determined by Ukrainian secret police when they started to check out company documentation. There are no solvent and real activities, only deception and fake news.

For more click here



By the way, Vovyanko was one of the leading men in An-225 project. He's a real expert, not a fraud, not a bot. There are more texts such as this one but I think this is going to be enough for now.
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Old June 5th, 2019, 11:33 PM   #1814
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Firstly, he's Vovnyanko, not Vovnyako or Vovyanko, and secondly, he's not an employee of the Antonov Company for quite a long time, so he does not have objective information. He's a cowardly loser who avenges his former employers.
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Old June 5th, 2019, 11:40 PM   #1815
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Quote:
Firstly, he's Vovnyanko, not Vovnyako or Vovyanko
Okay. I could write it in Russian but its not official language in this section. I've missed a letter or two.

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he's not an employee of the Antonov Company for quite a long time, so he does not have objective information.
And what are objective information?

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He's a cowardly loser who avenges his former employers.
I wouldn't say so.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 12:02 AM   #1816
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Antonov Company is part of Ukroboronprom, and Ukroboronprom is the Ukrainian defense conglomerate with a multi-level security system. Tell me how he could access confidential information? I think it's his fantasies.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 12:12 AM   #1817
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Tell me how he could access confidential information?
Well some information are not confidential for him because he used to create some of the airplanes we're discussing here. He knows what's An-70 better than me, you and people form PR section. He explained in the article why the An-188 will not be able to lift declared weight. He knows what's An-124 and An-225 because he worked on those planes. He knows what are An-140, An-148 and An-158 because he was still employed back then when they were designing them. And he knows now because if I know what is going on in a factory where I've worked for one year he would certainly know what is going on in place where he spent his whole working career.

For gods sake he is not an obscure individual. He used to run the projects we discussing here.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 12:28 AM   #1818
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Originally Posted by -III- View Post
He explained in the article why the An-188 will not be able to lift declared weight.
I assume the biggest problem with the AN-188 is that it is vapourware, like every other Antonov 'project' for the past 20 years.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 12:38 AM   #1819
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@-III-

He discusses not only old Antonov aircraft but also new planes. Where did he get the information? So, the question is, who gave it to him? Again - I think it's his fantasies.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 01:43 AM   #1820
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Found this from another aviation forum which got it from Ukrainian wikipedia.


Basically no new aircraft production since 2015. Currently they are only doing servicing and repairs at that plant.
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