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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #101
Jericho-79
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I'm still wondering how the most bankrupt city in America can fund a slamming new NHL arena.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #102
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I'm still wondering how the most bankrupt city in America can fund a slamming new NHL arena.
The money is technically coming from the state. But since the city's finances are now under state control, it still begs the question how they can justify it when city schools and police and roads and etc etc etc badly need money too
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Old August 26th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #103
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The money is technically coming from the state. But since the city's finances are now under state control, it still begs the question how they can justify it when city schools and police and roads and etc etc etc badly need money too
I am not arguing that public money should go to funding the new arena over schools, but ensuring that 20,000 hockey fans come into the city 40+ nights a season and spend money there, instead of in the suburbs is a plus for the city.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #104
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Of course, with Joe Louis Arena - also located in downtown Detroit, the Red Wings already bring "20,000 hockey fans into the city 40+ nights a season and spend money there". The Pistons play in the suburbs in Auburn Hills -- but at this time, I haven't heard any plans about moving the NBA games downtown. This is not to say that I think it isn't a good idea to build a new arena in downtown Detroit. This design will help spur a lot of additional projects around it. Joe Louis Arena is kind of a bunker down on the riverfront - and offers little potential to help create new neighboring growth. Its a lot of money -- but still, I think it will help continue the reinvigoration of downtown Detroit. There is a lot more work to do -- but it is needed to help keep the momentum going.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #105
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I'm still wondering how the most bankrupt city in America can fund a slamming new NHL arena.
The city is not funding a slamming new arena. They weren't using the city very much anyway. This is money from the DDA, tapping a fund of available money for downtown development. This money was never going to the city and the vast majority of it is from major corporations like GM and not citizens. If not this arena, it would have gone to someone like Dan Gilbert. You also have to remember, this is NOT just for an arena.

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If you've been following Crain's Detroit Business's Bill Shea's Twitter account and articles from the get-go, you'll already know that the $12.8 million the Downtown Development Authority's sending the Ilitches' way comes from property taxes on downtown businesses like General Motors, Rock Financial/Quicken Loans, the downtown casinos, Compuware, etc., and you'll have remembered that Shea stated that the money the DDA's been collecting can only be used for projects related to "downtown development," so these property taxes (cities engaging in a Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy still collect taxes) can't be used for any other purpose. http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...w-rink-will-be
There have been a lot of companies investing in Detroit recently... two new supermarkets have opened in the city (it previously had none - after Farmer Jack left, 90% of groceries were bought at liquor stores or food mart/convenience store type setups) this year to widespread acclaim and success. A major local shopping center has been opening some boutique shops in the city annually to success as well. The location is great and retail/restaurant options will be plentiful. This will be great for the city. Don't let the uninformed hate.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 05:12 AM   #106
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The Pistons play in the suburbs in Auburn Hills -- but at this time, I haven't heard any plans about moving the NBA games downtown.
http://detroitsportsrag.net/dsr-brea...without-gores/
http://detroitsportsrag.net/why-woul...l-the-pistons/

Interesting read...
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Old August 27th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #107
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Well, State of Michigan needs to give a reason for suburbanites to come and spend money in the city.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #108
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Authority OKs management deal for new Detroit arena; state would pay for Joe Louis razing

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DETROIT - A management deal for a planned sports arena and entertainment complex just outside downtown Detroit also says the state will pay for the demolition of aging Joe Louis Arena.

The Detroit Downtown Development Authority approved the deal Friday with Olympia Development.

The state says it will tear down the 32-year-old Joe Louis Arena after the NHL's Red Wings move to the new complex. Olympia Development is owned by the Ilitch family, which also owns the hockey team.

The new facility would seat 18,000 for hockey and other events.

City officials still have to approve expanding the development authority district boundaries.

The Michigan Strategic Fund would issue $450 million in bonds to build the events centre. The bonds would be repaid over 30 years from public and private money.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #109
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There have been a lot of companies investing in Detroit recently... two new supermarkets have opened in the city (it previously had none - after Farmer Jack left, 90% of groceries were bought at liquor stores or food mart/convenience store type setups) this year to widespread acclaim and success. A major local shopping center has been opening some boutique shops in the city annually to success as well. The location is great and retail/restaurant options will be plentiful. This will be great for the city. Don't let the uninformed hate.
one of those grocery stores is a Whole Foods Market is it not? any idea on how that's doing? we just had one open here and man, all you ever hear from people is how it's so expensive even though the quality of fresh produce and meat surpasses anything that the competition offers. I was, honestly, kind of surprised when I heard WFM open a store in Detroit. cheers.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #110
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one of those grocery stores is a Whole Foods Market is it not? any idea on how that's doing? we just had one open here and man, all you ever hear from people is how it's so expensive even though the quality of fresh produce and meat surpasses anything that the competition offers. I was, honestly, kind of surprised when I heard WFM open a store in Detroit. cheers.
pretty much sums up my sentiments on Whole Foods:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-...b_3895583.html

Detroit needs a Trader Joe's instead
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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #111
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The money is coming from the Downtown Development Authority. The DDA was set up to collect a tax from businesses within the DDA district to be used to fund development downtown. The money isn't coming from the general fund. Mike Illitch is also paying over half.

I'm also not sure where this whole thing about Detroit not having grocery stores comes from. Detroit has always had grocery stores.
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Old December 17th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #112
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The DDA should use that money to fix up Detroit schools and streets. Demolish old buildings no one lives in anymore and help fix up Detroit instead of wasting it on an arena
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Old December 17th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #113
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The DDA should use that money to fix up Detroit schools and streets. Demolish old buildings no one lives in anymore and help fix up Detroit instead of wasting it on an arena
Only problem is that is not what it was set up for. Ironically, building a new arena will demolish buildings no one lives in anymore and help fix up Detroit.
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Old December 19th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #114
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What happens to the space of the current arena?

Will building a new arena help improve the economy post construction? I mean i get that the unions want this so they can get paid, but who is this new arena going to help after it is built?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #115
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What happens to the space of the current arena?

Will building a new arena help improve the economy post construction? I mean i get that the unions want this so they can get paid, but who is this new arena going to help after it is built?
Joe Louis will be torn immediately so Cobo Hall can be expanded and the riverfront can continue their development. Cobo Hall has experienced an increase in economic activity after their latest renovation.

The new arena is going to help bridge the gap between two successful neighborhoods. You have Midtown to the north and Downtown to the south, but a mostly vacant and blighted neighborhood in between. It will also help bring big ticket concerts to Detroit instead of Auburn Hills as Joe Louis Arena cannot compete with the Palace.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #116
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It will also help bring big ticket concerts to Detroit instead of Auburn Hills as Joe Louis Arena cannot compete with the Palace.
If that is the case, wouldn't it be a matter of time before the Pistons have to move to downtown too?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 11:44 AM   #117
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If that is the case, wouldn't it be a matter of time before the Pistons have to move to downtown too?
Not really... But it would be cool if they did.

The owner of the pistons also owns the company that operates The Palace. He wouldn't get rid of his anchor tenant simply because someone was cutting into his concert bookings.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Illitch buying them and moving them downtown and then redeveloping The Palace into... I dunno... A nature preserve? It would probably be something depressing like a mall... or new urbanist faux town center thing... but meh... Would mean more people coming downtown...
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Old December 20th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #118
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If that is the case, wouldn't it be a matter of time before the Pistons have to move to downtown too?
Here's the issue. The Palace is a perfectly fine building. Even after all these years it is still one of the top arenas. I would love to be able to just move it downtown. The Pistons don't need a new building like the Red Wings do. As mentioned before, Tom Gores owns the Pistons and he owns the Palace and the only parking to the Palace. He controls 100% of the revenue. There is no way he is giving that up to lease a building. Maybe in time the Pistons will move, but the Palace is far from being obsolete.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #119
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Not really... But it would be cool if they did.

The owner of the pistons also owns the company that operates The Palace. He wouldn't get rid of his anchor tenant simply because someone was cutting into his concert bookings.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Illitch buying them and moving them downtown and then redeveloping The Palace into... I dunno... A nature preserve? It would probably be something depressing like a mall... or new urbanist faux town center thing... but meh... Would mean more people coming downtown...
Illitch did try to buy the Pistons. He reached an agreement with Karen Davidson but the deal fell through. Illitch is no longer a viable business man. He transferred ownership of the Red Wings to his son and it's really his son who is behind this arena deal.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 12:24 AM   #120
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Illitch did try to buy the Pistons. He reached an agreement with Karen Davidson but the deal fell through. Illitch is no longer a viable business man. He transferred ownership of the Red Wings to his son and it's really his son who is behind this arena deal.
For publicly financed arenas, you'd hope they get as many events as possible. Even with that, they tend to be (at best) a net-zero investment.

As I understand it, the break even point for an arena is about 200 events per year. At that point, the arena is covering it's debt service (for normal arena deals, lets not get into sweetheart deals...), and covering upkeep, etc. Even for the surrounding arena, thats 200 nights per year that several thousand people are milling around the immediate area surrounding the arena. Its what ya need to make it work.

With pre-season, regular season, and playoffs (don't pay attention to B-ball, so no idea how good the Pistons have been of late, but playoffs are pretty much a guarantee for the Red Wings each season) figure about 50 events per season for each team. With just the Red Wings, that's 150 more events you need to book each year. Quite a lot of concerts and disney on ice shows... If you throw in the Pistons, that drops down to 100 events.

If Detroit had no other such venue for concerts, I'd say 100 events would be easy for a city its size. But throw in the Palace taking all the Piston's games, and also competing for concerts, and you start to wonder how this would work...

Hence why I hope the pistons eventually decide the Palace has had a good run and move back downtown.
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