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Old July 20th, 2019, 10:17 PM   #6741
Manitopiaaa
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The old towers were sad, grey eyesores. It's terrible that 3,000 perished in the Al Qaeda attacks, but I don't mourn for the buildings themselves.
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Old July 20th, 2019, 10:58 PM   #6742
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Yet the twin towers were timeless icons of Western art
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Old July 21st, 2019, 04:45 PM   #6743
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The old WTC had flaws but it was undoubtedly a symbol of NY and the USA. I remember seeing a cityscape with two taller buildings in the middle and I was certainly sure it was Manhattan.
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Old July 21st, 2019, 04:57 PM   #6744
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alright, a page of this talk is enough. It's OK to have it now and again but it never leads anywhere because the old WTC is in the past. This thread is supposed to be about the new campus, so if you want to reminisce, feel free to bring it here:

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=458
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 06:56 AM   #6745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson11 View Post
alright, a page of this talk is enough. It's OK to have it now and again but it never leads anywhere because the old WTC is in the past. This thread is supposed to be about the new campus, so if you want to reminisce, feel free to bring it here:

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=458
This "discussion" will continue no matter what logic you or anyone else presents. Youre a moderator. If you dont like the pointless bickering (i sure dont, and it appears that you do not either) then put this mess of a thread on ice. At least until any significant news breaks. any further bickering can take place in the link you provided.

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Old July 23rd, 2019, 07:06 AM   #6746
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This "discussion" will continue no matter what logic you or anyone else presents. Youre a moderator. If you dont like the pointless bickering then put this mess of a thread on ice. At least until any significant news breaks.
Nah, it's not at that point yet. People can voice their criticism or support of the new 2 WTC, but the twins are long gone, and there are other places to discuss them. There's no point in comparing them, at least yet, because the campus is still incomplete. This tower needs to go up before that debate happens.
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 11:19 AM   #6747
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Cantilever free!

IMG_8638.JPGIMG_8634.JPGIMG_8632.JPGIMG_8635.JPG
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 02:50 PM   #6748
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Not bad... like a fatter 111 w57th...

The LED screens on the bottoms of the cantilevers are kind of cool though...
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 05:18 PM   #6749
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I'm definitely more of a fan sans cantilevers.
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 06:12 PM   #6750
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NEW YORK | 2 World Trade Center | 403m | 1323ft | 82 fl | Pro

Yeah, removing the cantilevers would help immensely.

But seeing this version without them is also helping me articulate what bothered me about them so much in the first place. Yes, there's the "lean" which I hate, given the history of the site. But there's another, purely aesthetic thing going on...

As the blocks rise, and protrude further to the north, there's this overall "torque" effect.



That torquing/curving effect is drawing our eyes away from the center of the site, off to the North, whereas the rest of the buildings in the master plan are trying to draw our eyes in a continuous spiral up to the pinnacle of One WTC. Or to put it another way, it's like they dropped a second, clockwise spiral, into the corner of the master plan's counter-clockwise spiral. It's rubbing against the grain.

Imagine instead if you flipped the tower, so the cantilevers were on the South side. The torquing effect/visual curve would be in line with the spiral of the master plan.

Of course, you'd still be dealing with the "toppling" effect, which would feel even more grotesque when facing the site instead of away from it, and I do think that the heights of the various blocks is wonky no matter what you do with the cantilevers, but it wouldn't feel so apart from the rest of the buildings of the WTC. I have to wonder whether the original design might have been oriented the other way, and if so, whether Silverstein nixed it/told BIG to reverse it, in order to avoid the sense the building was leaning over the memorial.

In all, if we get the BIG design, I think the best we can hope for is the cantilevers getting value engineered out. The ziggurat version that WSB posted has at least a neutral East-to-West thrust up and towards One WTC that doesn't actively break the master plan.
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 09:31 PM   #6751
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Originally Posted by Fabouninou View Post
Yet the twin towers were timeless icons of Western art
I've seen them with my own eyes, and I never liked them. Just austere,inhuman monoliths and they left me cold. In fact, I was on top of them twice. Both times I wanted to get the hell away, those towers freaked me out. I'm glad they wren't rebuilt. The plaza was also a relic of the 60's and I hate that period of architecture. I hope good old Bjarks tower rises soon to complete the complex so the romantic nostalgic idiocy can stop on these forums.
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 10:49 PM   #6752
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Yamasaki's twins were in a league of their own. They can never be matched by anything built now.
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Old July 24th, 2019, 01:42 AM   #6753
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The only tall Bjarke Ingels building I like is Shenzhen energy mansion. His design for 2 wtc is terrible. Surely there are other proposals outside his and Fosters to choose from? Im not so sure about Fosters design now. It may take too much attention away from 1wtc.
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Old July 24th, 2019, 02:59 PM   #6754
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The only tall Bjarke Ingels building I like is Shenzhen energy mansion. His design for 2 wtc is terrible. Surely there are other proposals outside his and Fosters to choose from? Im not so sure about Fosters design now. It may take too much attention away from 1wtc.
His pyramid building in New York is awesome as well:


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Old July 26th, 2019, 08:11 PM   #6755
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Yamasaki's twins were in a league of their own. They can never be matched by anything built now.
Very bold statements here. In the end its just your opinion, not fact . Anything could match these turds if some effort was put in by contemporary architects.

Stop drinking the kook-aid that are architectural critics. Yamasaki's towers were just exercises in engineering and practicality, i.e dullness to the extreme. The technology of the time only allowed for boxes, and today we can build far more interesting forms. They were big austere, steel pin-striped inhuman grey boxes with some somewhat interesting steel-work down below (to throw a bone to the public and the critics), nothing beautiful about them overall. Urbanity-wise they were terrible with that bare, windswept plaza too that turned extremely depressing when the weather turned grey and how they towered over you with no visual relief for the pedestrian. Very dystopian. I hope you saw them yourself in real life before commenting like this. I did, and I'd take 1WTC's sleek sculptural form and shimmering glass (despite the heavy base which was required for security issues - blame the moronic terrorists) over them any day.

Many of these dull buildings around the world are overrated by people. They are incredibly simple and boring structures that any 5 year old could imagine and draw. I honestly think that people are deluding themselves by trying to find things that are not really there because of the architectural critics and their over the top analysis. History books are filled with nonsense opinions on these kind of towers.

Stuff like the Taj Mahal, Westminster Palace or the Paris Opera is what good architecture is because effort was put into making it beautiful. Not here, minimal effort was required because the focus on these types of "buildings" is speed and cost savings.

The early modernist style is nothing but efficiency and not about making a beautiful object. We see the same thing at HY, with these new corporate glass boxes. The only difference is the glass is nicer today than it was back in the 60's and there is more glass, so less ugly steel framing to look at. I doubt the developers put much thought into making a beautiful building compared to the thought of "how do I house 2000 workers as efficiently (i.e, cheaply) as possible".
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Old July 26th, 2019, 09:33 PM   #6756
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^ That is your opinion. As an Architect myself, I loved the twin towers. Also, no 5 year old can work out the design, plan work, permitting, and construction of such monumental buildings. It takes me months to do plans for a small restaurant. Have respect of other people's opinions.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 11:13 AM   #6757
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Well, okay but then you should respect his opinion as well. I personally never found the twins to be anything special from a visual standpoint. Just tall blocks to me with nothing redeeming but their height. Granted, that's just my opinion but for every architect whose work I'm supposed to respect, there's a critic whose opinion you should also respect.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 11:40 AM   #6758
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Personally, I am of the mindset that they should bring back the old designs of 2WTC. After all; the main drive of the redesign was the talks that Fox News would relocate their studios into 2WTC, so they needed to be redesigned to accommodate for that. Now that it's fallen through, I say we should bring back the old designs.
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Old July 27th, 2019, 11:44 AM   #6759
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When does it go back to where this topic is about, Two World Trade Center...I wonder.
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Old July 31st, 2019, 02:44 AM   #6760
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value engineering,

damn, dont give them any ideaz
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