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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:00 AM   #81
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looks like a park to me. im not against park, but they are making a square right?
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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:58 AM   #82
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Having a large square in the middle of our skinny CBD will only make it look even less dense and there will probably be another solar access plane implanted into the site.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 12:25 PM   #83
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why do i bother.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 12:38 PM   #84
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Please keep it up Culwulla. You are appreciated by the more observant of us.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 01:04 PM   #85
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Sometimes I think this is Black Dog Central!
Cul: It's best just to ignore the Whine Club.
Know that your efforts are much appreciated by those of us who are genuinely and positively interested in Sydney, architecture and townplanning and who value all the excellent info and goss that you provide for us.
Same goes for Muse.
Thank you.
And as the actress said to the bishop: "Don't stop!"
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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:16 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDNEYAHOLIC View Post
Having a large square in the middle of our skinny CBD will only make it look even less dense and there will probably be another solar access plane implanted into the site.
I don't think anything apart from the approved (if or when) John Boyd Tower would cast shadows over the new square, and that would perhaps be in the early morn. The sun doesn't flop over to the southern side enough for the site's southern 150m + (?) job to have any effect. Everything else, on the Park/Market and Pitt/Castlereagh St blocks, is already built out. Behind Sydney Square @ The Town Hall is too far back.

The Hotel Coronation will be a sad loss. It's not amazingly intricate in design, but its simplicity is lovely. Park House and Woolies, both obviously larger would be amiss too. As for the modern things on Pitt, they are more suited to the depths of Parramatta rather than central Sydney City (even that's unfair for a modern burgeoning Parra IMHO).

I'm wondering what the subway-like entrance on the southern side of Pitt in the early conceptual (perhaps) of the SMH render is. Perhaps an underground link to Town Hall Station to avoid having hoards just trample their way to & from George St through the square. Maybe not an underground entrance to the new line...can't see any others, and surely not an underground carpark.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:23 PM   #87
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^yeah, the coronation is ok. but there must be a reason why it hasnt heritage listing?
as for potential shadowing, well its nothing to worry about. They start testing the special areas (sydney sq) from 9am and it should be safe.just look at massive citgroup. thats further north and it casts a big shadow in winter.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:24 PM   #88
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I think even those of us on the forum that whine also care about Sydney too. Obviously we have seen that sun access plains have affected other designs over the years and creating a new area with these could hamper other skyscrapers in the future (afterall this is a forum for Skyscraper fans).

Personally I'm for the Square, I hope once it's completed it is used creatively.

My concerns are the following though:

Creation of new sun access plains reducing the height of future skyscrapers in the area.

The possiblity of delimiting the CBD shopping district, it will cut straight down the middle of shopping on George Street/World Square and Galleries Victoria/Pitt Street.

The potential loss of Woolworths in the city, this can not be good for competition if there are only Coles left.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:46 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Bertrum View Post
I think even those of us on the forum that whine also care about Sydney too. Obviously we have seen that sun access plains have affected other designs over the years and creating a new area with these could hamper other skyscrapers in the future (afterall this is a forum for Skyscraper fans).

Personally I'm for the Square, I hope once it's completed it is used creatively.

My concerns are the following though:

Creation of new sun access plains reducing the height of future skyscrapers in the area.

The possiblity of delimiting the CBD shopping district, it will cut straight down the middle of shopping on George Street/World Square and Galleries Victoria/Pitt Street.

The potential loss of Woolworths in the city, this can not be good for competition if there are only Coles left.
I can assure you Woolworths will not be lost. A new store will definitely be incorporated into the design, undoubtedly in an underground format.

I think the square will actually make Sydney look denser - not from more buildings, but instead from the density of people that will be walking, sitting, standing, moving, arriving, departing, meeting, greeting and gathering in the square.

I am also quite certain that the Council will be eager to replace if not increase the floorpsace that will be lost in the square development through this proposed tower, as well as the underground retail aforementioned.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:45 AM   #90
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i simply dont like the squares design, i was hoping for more of a European design with fountain, etc. rather then a contemporary take on a square.

open space will make qvb look better though, since it will be less busy in the area.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:49 AM   #91
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Even though Woolworths is not heritage listed or any for that matter, Sydney again falls fowl of wanting new all the time. I think we need to be honest and realise that other cities, especially Melbourne have the upper hand on how the city actually feels, the streetscape etc all because they kept many of their older buildings. Sydney is all too quick to pull down these buildings that have stood for decades and Woolworths IS a landmark whether listed or not. I just hate to see it pulled down for a square that I dont think Sydney really needs, we have survived the last few hundred years without one, why do we need one now? If I thought that the building and square were going to be mindblowing maybe I could see the logic, but knowing Sydney and it's planners it won't be.
Sydney barely has any of it's history left and I think they should be preserved, just because they are not listed now does not mean it won't happen in the future. We all gasp and become miserbale at old photos of Sydney and see what we have lost, the great buildings and the not so great. Sydney will you ever learn? I doubt it.
These little icons are what make this city wonderful. Go on pull it down and let future generations think that we are idiots as we do of our predecessors.
I will chain myself to this building if I have too!
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 02:22 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
May as well throw these in here.
The render from the SMH 2 years ago:
Love how the monorail line has been "overlooked" in this render !
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 02:31 AM   #93
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sydney actually does need this square. All great cities have squares. we have such a tiny one between town hall and st andrews. having one across from town hall is more appropriate and needed. so lucky to be able to do it. will really open up the whole are and make it feel spacious.
As for the 1955 woolies, it isnt really ornate or have any architectural merit. Although the bldg there before was quite good. the Baberfals bldg of 1929 . but it was added to and when this happens it reduces its heritage value.


woolies-past its used by date
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 02:44 AM   #94
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I really don't think the square should be grasslands. If they intend on building a square then make it one in the true sense i.e Trafalger, Federation, Potsdamer. It would also make sense for gathering etc as the grass would die pretty quickly and would be awful in the rain. However we have Martin Place which is as good as a square and already a meeting place and event holder i.e Rememberance Day etc.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 03:07 AM   #95
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Don't forget about World Square!
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 03:18 AM   #96
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I wonder name they will give the square, no doubt some aboriginal name like Bangakoala so it can reflect nicely with the rest of the city. Sorry I seem to have nothing nice to say about this, I think it is appaling and huge waste of money.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 03:28 AM   #97
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Sorry to harp on, but just looking at the render (I know it is only a concept) but surely pedestrian access will be difficult when you have 3 major streets surrounding the square. Surely the idea for the square is too hold events, meeting place etc It just doesnt look like it feels well with Town Hall with George Street seperating the two. To give it a true square feeling then they would need to either close George Street off between them and maybe underground it (which won't happen). Again thinking back to the traditional squares and which now includes Trafalger since they blocked traffic access at the top, maybe not so much Potsdamer but Berliners use Alexander instead, Hotel de Ville, Federation, even throw in World Sq, plus many more all have better access .. no?
I just want it done properly if it is going to happen. That render just looks like a square for Energy Australia not Town Hall.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 04:24 AM   #98
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At this stage, I can just see it alleviating the pedestrian traffic from the established footpath boundaries, just making it a busy wider thoroughfare most of the time.

lol @ Bangakoala


...

Last edited by Muse; February 22nd, 2007 at 06:18 AM.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 04:31 AM   #99
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Well, this render is two years old. So much can change. Persoanlly I don't think it shoudl be grassed in such a high traffic area. And I imagine a square in such an important area will have a few more points of interest than some gums and a few benches.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 05:24 AM   #100
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I agree with the above comments about the use of grass (or hopefully the lack of it), I also think that to really make this a great square, we have to pave over some of the roads otherwise its nothing more than a patch of land. I know it would be difficult but we need to divert traffic off George street so the square joins all the way up to Town Hall.
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