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Old January 24th, 2020, 10:04 AM   #3261
A r c h i
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You can rule out 400 City Rd.
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Old January 24th, 2020, 10:08 AM   #3262
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Not many alternatives remain unless amalgamation is a consideration..... needs to be central to Southbank, so...... Treasury is my guess!


Edit 1: probably not (in hindsight), if the development across the road struggled to reach 156m (was it?) then this is unlikely to be Decatur’s ‘Eldorado’ site due to proximity Issues with Boyd Park...

I’ll keep looking Mr D.

Edit 2: why not pull down the Langham and it’s environs, such an under-utilised waste of prime space! Or even the old Costain digs... their time must be well and truly up?

Edit 3: FFS Pull it all down!

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You can rule out 400 City Rd.

Last edited by Papps; January 24th, 2020 at 10:30 AM.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 07:57 AM   #3263
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Papps, I was thinking the same about the old Costain digs - time for a landmark there.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 08:22 AM   #3264
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I note the buildings that you have recently advocated on this forum should be demolished (without you or any of us even knowing what would or could be built on each of those sites in place of the demolished buildings);

- 500 Bourke Street (36 floors)
- 100 Queen Street (36 floors)
- 35 Collins Street (50 floors)
- 55 Collins Street (46 floors)
- 80 Collins Street North (50 floors)
- Langham Hotel (25 floors)

In my opinion, for a number of reasons, each of these buildings is a fine building and an important building for Melbourne and should be retained long term.

Not everyone shares your apparent "tear it down" mentality.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 01:54 PM   #3265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Steele Rebar View Post
I note the buildings that you have recently advocated on this forum should be demolished (without you or any of us even knowing what would or could be built on each of those sites in place of the demolished buildings);

- 500 Bourke Street (36 floors)
- 100 Queen Street (36 floors)
- 35 Collins Street (50 floors)
- 55 Collins Street (46 floors)
- 80 Collins Street North (50 floors)
- Langham Hotel (25 floors)

In my opinion, for a number of reasons, each of these buildings is a fine building and an important building for Melbourne and should be retained long term.

Not everyone shares your apparent "tear it down" mentality.
And I think the consensus on here would agree. All of those are currently economically viable except for 500 Bourke which at the minimum needs $100 million to refurbish. If the market determines that it doesn’t stack up on that basis the entire site will be redeveloped like 50 Bridge in Sydney or demolished and a new building built.

We will wait and see.

35, 55 80 Collins and 100 Queen are not going anywhere as those sites are fully developed under the current and any realistic future relaxed planning rules.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 06:32 PM   #3266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decatur View Post
And I think the consensus on here would agree. All of those are currently economically viable except for 500 Bourke which at the minimum needs $100 million to refurbish. If the market determines that it doesn’t stack up on that basis the entire site will be redeveloped like 50 Bridge in Sydney or demolished and a new building built.

We will wait and see.

35, 55 80 Collins and 100 Queen are not going anywhere as those sites are fully developed under the current and any realistic future relaxed planning rules.
please can we tear down so much of the shite on Russell, Elizabeth (north of Bourke to LaTrobe), Swanston (here and there)
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Old January 26th, 2020, 04:35 AM   #3267
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The Southgate retail complex should definitely be heritage listed, there is no way they should be able to tear it down.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 05:03 AM   #3268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Steele Rebar View Post
I note the buildings that you have recently advocated on this forum should be demolished (without you or any of us even knowing what would or could be built on each of those sites in place of the demolished buildings);

- 500 Bourke Street (36 floors)
- 100 Queen Street (36 floors)
- 35 Collins Street (50 floors)
- 55 Collins Street (46 floors)
- 80 Collins Street North (50 floors)
- Langham Hotel (25 floors)

In my opinion, for a number of reasons, each of these buildings is a fine building and an important building for Melbourne and should be retained long term.

Not everyone shares your apparent "tear it down" mentality.
One or two folks mused about Collins Place and ANZ, and now you are using it as evidence of a grand cabel wanting to demolish everything. Ease up.

Collins Place and Nauru House will remain as is.
100 Queen is not going anywhere, nor should it, it's excellent.

I am highly dubious about Southgate proposals, I will believe Langham is in trouble when something is announced. Most folks here are surprised that may be developed. It appears to be out of the blue.

500 Bourke is the one on your list that genuinely could be torn down and redeveloped. Why? Because the prime tenant is moving out completely (NAB) and ISPT (the owner) may see more benefit to developing a new Six Star efficient grade A office tower than refurbishing a 1970s grade B/C tower. It is a prime location. Much like CRA Tower made way for 101 Collins in the 80s.

CRA was 26 levels and 100m.
500 Bourke is 40 levels and about 155-160m.

Could happen.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 05:07 AM   #3269
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Originally Posted by Grampians View Post
please can we tear down so much of the shite on Russell, Elizabeth (north of Bourke to LaTrobe), Swanston (here and there)
We don't live in an oil painting.

Cities with history have less visually appealing sections, it is what it is. Go to New York and London, they each have the same issues.

Russell street has height restrictions, no tram line and will never be a prime office district.

Restrictions are even tighter on Swanston.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 12:00 PM   #3270
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You jest?

We can do 1000 times better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollo View Post
The Southgate retail complex should definitely be heritage listed, there is no way they should be able to tear it down.

Last edited by Papps; January 26th, 2020 at 01:56 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 01:45 PM   #3271
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Nth Elizabeth St could be a lovely historic district with the right streetscaping and removal of those disgusting awnings (or at least find a way to do a better job of it).
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Old January 26th, 2020, 04:43 PM   #3272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawl View Post
Nth Elizabeth St could be a lovely historic district with the right streetscaping and removal of those disgusting awnings (or at least find a way to do a better job of it).
Elizabeth BETWEEN Bourke and LaTrobe
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Old January 26th, 2020, 10:56 PM   #3273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampians View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawl View Post
Nth Elizabeth St could be a lovely historic district with the right streetscaping and removal of those disgusting awnings (or at least find a way to do a better job of it).
Elizabeth BETWEEN Bourke and LaTrobe
Don’t stress. Coming soon to a screen near you. Some shadow rule hurdles are holding it back but the pressure to develop that area is immense. The council owned car park on Bourke opposite the 405 development is pivotal to this area’s transformation.
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Old January 27th, 2020, 03:16 AM   #3274
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I don't think all of Southgate is mooted for demolition, just the eastern side hence "Southgate East".
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Old January 27th, 2020, 04:15 AM   #3275
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ARA, a Singapore institutional investor, purchased the entire Southgate complex for $578 million from Dexus in 2016. Obviously they have have been working on a new master plan for the property. It will be really interesting to see what they come up with.

The hotel next door wasn’t part of that deal and isn’t going anywhere fast.
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Old January 27th, 2020, 04:41 AM   #3276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db2 View Post
One or two folks mused about Collins Place and ANZ, and now you are using it as evidence of a grand cabel wanting to demolish everything. Ease up.

Collins Place and Nauru House will remain as is.
100 Queen is not going anywhere, nor should it, it's excellent.

I am highly dubious about Southgate proposals, I will believe Langham is in trouble when something is announced. Most folks here are surprised that may be developed. It appears to be out of the blue.

500 Bourke is the one on your list that genuinely could be torn down and redeveloped. Why? Because the prime tenant is moving out completely (NAB) and ISPT (the owner) may see more benefit to developing a new Six Star efficient grade A office tower than refurbishing a 1970s grade B/C tower. It is a prime location. Much like CRA Tower made way for 101 Collins in the 80s.

CRA was 26 levels and 100m.
500 Bourke is 40 levels and about 155-160m.

Could happen.
Just to clarify, my comments in my post was actually intended for just one person (Papps) and no other person and I should have made that clear. I had never even heard of a "grand cabal" and I had to do a google search to find out what it means. Over the space of a week, Papps had advocated (or "mused") for the demolition of five significant CBD office buildings. That's his view of things. I wasn't going to say anything. Then he posted "FFS tear it all down" in regard to the Southgate complex. I thought the use of "FFS" was unwarranted, as if he was hoping for a chorus of support for his view from other posters. I then decided to post my opposite opinion that I don't think that those particular buildings should be demolished and I commented that not everyone agrees with his way of thinking. It is as simple as that.

In my view, I am not the person that needs to "ease up".
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Old January 27th, 2020, 05:23 AM   #3277
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Sorry to have caused any distress in my various rants!

The main source of my witch hunt was to determine the locations of the new supertalls, as mentioned by Mr Decatur.

Other than the fact that the older towers of Nauru and to a lesser extent the horrible ‘engineer brown’ Collins Place (might I add not requiring demo just yet, but an entertaining thought for redevelopment potential) may one day soon require the demolisher’s hammer.

ANZ, well, I did concede it was too early to pull this eyesore down after some convincing might I add. Did you note this?

As for Southbank, the witch hunt is on for the demolition site for the location of the new super tall.....do you have any constructive suggestions? Or are we just going to sit around and complain when the site is finally announced?

Not a dissimilar response to others who have proclaimed their wish to retain 500 Bourke, but alas, this could well be the site of the other supertall in the wings/mooted at the moment.

Our job here, I believe is to constructively work towards determining the sites of these new towers, and yes, the city’s face is changing. For myself and one or two others in the minority, so it seems, it’s not happening fast enough!

That’s more a reflection of age, than anything else, but some of us ultra-progressives are not necessarily content
with where we are currently ‘at’. I think as one gets older, one likes to have more say in the ‘vision’ of where the
city will be in 20, 30, 50 years…… because we’re better connected, often more people listen, and that’s the first
step in leaving a worthwhile vision behind, in our wake, to be remembered after we’re long gone. Food for
thought.

Last edited by Papps; January 27th, 2020 at 07:31 AM.
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Old January 27th, 2020, 05:50 AM   #3278
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Apologies if it's already been answered but were the 2 towers HWT/IBM apart of the $578 million sale to ARA?

Edit* never mind found the answer, they were.
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Old January 27th, 2020, 05:54 AM   #3279
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Apologies if it's already been answered but were the 2 towers HWT/IBM apart of the $578 million sale to ARA?
Yes, the two office towers and the retail podium (and car parks).
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Old January 27th, 2020, 06:15 AM   #3280
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Sorry to have caused any distress in my various rants!

The main source of my witch hunt was to determine the locations of the new supertalls, as mentioned by Mr Decatur.

Other than the fact that the older towers of Nauru and to a lesser extent the horrible ‘engineer brown’ Collins Place (might I add not requiring demo just yet, but an entertaining thought for redevelopment potential) may one day soon require the demolisher’s hammer.

ANZ, well, I did concede it was too early to pull this eyesore down after some convincing might I add. Did you note this?

As for Southbank, the witch hunt is on for the demolition site for the location of the new super tall.....do you have any constructive suggestions? Or are we just going to sit around and complain when the site is finally announced?

Not a dissimilar response to others who have proclaimed their wish to retain 500 Bourke, but alas, this could be the site of the other super tall in the wings at the moment.

Our job here, I believe is to constructively work towards determining the sites of these new towers, and yes, the city’s face is changing. For myself and one or two others in the minority, so it seems, it’s not happening fast enough!
Collins Place is an excellent example of it's era.
The most that should ever happen is a very mild reskin.
The towers and ground are still fully occupied and work great.

ANZ has already been discussed, personally I find it a very nice tower.

Supertall potential sites would be:

- Crown
- Green Spine
- ESSO
- 500 Bourke (above sea-level)
- The blocks between 500 Bourke (south-east) and West Side Place (north-west)
- City Road spine near A108 and Green Spine

Southgate east surely will not be very tall, planning will likely see to that. It is too near river and arts precinct. Heck I doubt ESSO will host a super-tall as well.

Don't forget that it appears the 280m 38 Freshwater Place may have started, if so this is near enough a super-tall to count is a mega development. Heck the six towers of Melbourne Square and four at West Side Place are all mighty. Development is ticking along big time.
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