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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:01 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
How many Filipinos are directly hired through these POGO investments in comparison to foreigners?
Tax revenue means almost nothing, because the common Filipino won’t benefit much if they are not the ones getting the jobs themselves. It’s as if one implies one can only improve their lives through government initiatives.
How much of that tax revenue will get lost to corruption, bureaucracy? And would it even be truly necessary? Philippines have no problem paying the loans for the infrastructure projects, and BBB for smaller projects are going at a steady rate.
In the end, would any of these POGO investments ever benefit the Philippines, lest say be worth it over potential BPO and Industry investments which ACTUALLY generates jobs for Filipinos themselves?
POGOs give Malls, Fastfood Chains, Real Estate Developers, Taxis, power/water/internet providers, local shops.. etc.. Paying customers.. These industries employ thousands of Filipinos.. Meanwhile POGOs don't displace Filipino workers so it's a commensalism to mutualism sort of relationship.. It's better to see macro effects.. I think it only boils down to Sinophobia which I don't think is great.. HongKong and Macau employs 700K Pinoys and you never hear them complain that much except the rubbish on the City Center in HK on Sundays.. I guess it goes both ways.. It only depends on implementation of local rules..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:11 AM   #482
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okay lang ang POGO.. pero kung ako lang gusto ko limit yan..mag focus nlang sa manufacturing ang gobyerno..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:20 AM   #483
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okay lang ang POGO.. pero kung ako lang gusto ko limit yan..mag focus nlang sa manufacturing ang gobyerno..
Trade War 😅... Wlang masyadong market kaseh pigil ang pera.. Dahil sa trade war mababa ang production ng lahat ng goods kaseh yung consuming markets (EU,US,China..etc) is either gipit or inuuna ang local production ..ang maganda lang ay dahil sa mababa ang production is bawas yung demand ng Oil kaya mababa din yung presyo ngayon or atleast stable.. Yung pwede natin pasukin this time is Agriculture... Yung high value crops.. Local na low maintenance -high yeild.. Manga, Durian, Jackfruit etc.. Kasi lahat ng tao may pera man o wla is kakain talaga 😊.. Tsaka every year tumataas yung demand sa pagkain..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:22 AM   #484
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^ Pwede rin gawing hostage mga workers nila in case magka-gyera.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:28 AM   #485
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POGOs give Malls, Fastfood Chains, Real Estate Developers, Taxis, power/water/internet providers, local shops.. etc.. Paying customers.. These industries employ thousands of Filipinos.. Meanwhile POGOs don't displace Filipino workers so it's a commensalism to mutualism sort of relationship.. It's better to see macro effects.. I think it only boils down to Sinophobia which I don't think is great.. HongKong and Macau employs 700K Pinoys and you never hear them complain that much except the rubbish on the City Center in HK on Sundays.. I guess it goes both ways.. It only depends on implementation of local rules..


There’s no denying the benefits of POGOs in the PH. They don’t steal jobs and drive up consumption. Hopefully it’s sustainable. Wishing for more regulations though because the people from that country do have a reputation of leaving places worse than when they found it. Their attitudes too.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:51 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
POGOs give Malls, Fastfood Chains, Real Estate Developers, Taxis, power/water/internet providers, local shops.. etc.. Paying customers.. These industries employ thousands of Filipinos.. Meanwhile POGOs don't displace Filipino workers so it's a commensalism to mutualism sort of relationship.. It's better to see macro effects.. I think it only boils down to Sinophobia which I don't think is great.. HongKong and Macau employs 700K Pinoys and you never hear them complain that much except the rubbish on the City Center in HK on Sundays.. I guess it goes both ways.. It only depends on implementation of local rules..
Tumpak! Mga pinoy talaga minsan napakaipokrito.

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There’s no denying the benefits of POGOs in the PH. They don’t steal jobs and drive up consumption. Hopefully it’s sustainable. Wishing for more regulations though because the people from that country do have a reputation of leaving places worse than when they found it. Their attitudes too.
Sustainable yan. Maraming takot especially sa media na yung daw real estate boom na dala ng POGOs eh baka daw matulad sa 2008 US financial/housing crisis. Pinagkaiba ng dalawa, yung US crisis nangyari dahil di na makabayad yung mga mayari ng subprime mortages. Sa POGOs naman may "addiction factor" na kahit lugi na yung isang chinese high roller hahanap at hahanap ng paraan yan para makapagsugal.

May kasabihan nga eh na, "Once a sugarol always a sugarol" kaya as long as the ph govt allows it di mauubusan ng customer ang POGOs.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 11:14 AM   #487
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Trade War 😅... Wlang masyadong market kaseh pigil ang pera.. Dahil sa trade war mababa ang production ng lahat ng goods kaseh yung consuming markets (EU,US,China..etc) is either gipit or inuuna ang local production ..ang maganda lang ay dahil sa mababa ang production is bawas yung demand ng Oil kaya mababa din yung presyo ngayon or atleast stable.. Yung pwede natin pasukin this time is Agriculture... Yung high value crops.. Local na low maintenance -high yeild.. Manga, Durian, Jackfruit etc.. Kasi lahat ng tao may pera man o wla is kakain talaga 😊.. Tsaka every year tumataas yung demand sa pagkain..
good ang POGO for short term.. parang Shared services..


well tama pwedeng pang hostage rin sa mga mainlanders pag nagkagirian

pero ang long term solution parin ay manufacturing..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 11:41 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
POGOs give Malls, Fastfood Chains, Real Estate Developers, Taxis, power/water/internet providers, local shops.. etc.. Paying customers.. These industries employ thousands of Filipinos.. Meanwhile POGOs don't displace Filipino workers so it's a commensalism to mutualism sort of relationship.. It's better to see macro effects.. I think it only boils down to Sinophobia which I don't think is great.. HongKong and Macau employs 700K Pinoys and you never hear them complain that much except the rubbish on the City Center in HK on Sundays.. I guess it goes both ways.. It only depends on implementation of local rules..
I keep hearing the argument that "it will trickle down because the foreign employees will contribute to the economy".
Well that applies to all sectors and employees of all nationalities, especially Filipinos. We would see the same effect if the workers were all Filipino. In the end, it would be a far greater benefit for the Philippines if everyone hired were Filipinos themselves.

In addition, it's wrong to compare HK and Macau with Philippines. Neither HK nor Macau have an unemployment rate and poverty rate like that of Philippines, and a large part of these workers are domestic workers, mostly because the locals themselves aren't willing to work such. Alot of these workers also earns below the average wage in these respective countries, while POGO jobs have very high pay. Had thousands of foreigners come to Philippines to work as maids and nurses, that would be a different case.

So in the end, my point still stands. It would be far more beneficial for the Philippines if almost all these POGO investments hired mainly Filipinos. At the current rate, it's only a marginal benefit
And that is what worries me. At this rate, Philippines will recieve plenty of FDI but very little of it will go to generate quality jobs for Filipinos, which the Philippines is in DESPERATE need of.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 12:04 PM   #489
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^ Pwede rin gawing hostage mga workers nila in case magka-gyera.
.. Yun nga eh tabla2x, atleast kung may gyera, hindi kawawa yung mga OFW sa HK at Macau, kaseh may mga intsik sa Pinas na panabla at pangresbak.. 😂😂😂

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Originally Posted by sean911 View Post
There’s no denying the benefits of POGOs in the PH. They don’t steal jobs and drive up consumption. Hopefully it’s sustainable. Wishing for more regulations though because the people from that country do have a reputation of leaving places worse than when they found it. Their attitudes too.
Yung problema kaya magulo yung sa Pasay at Parañaque ay ang mga mismong LGU.. kahit noong wla pa yung mga Chinese, dugyot na talaga yung Baclaran, EDSA-Taft etc.. Sana magbagong buhay na yung mga nasa city hall tsaka yung mga mismong nakaupo.. it's more on law enforcement..


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Originally Posted by Bigcity23 View Post
Tumpak! Mga pinoy talaga minsan napakaipokrito.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]

Sustainable yan. Maraming takot especially sa media na yung daw real estate boom na dala ng POGOs eh baka daw matulad sa 2008 US financial/housing crisis. Pinagkaiba ng dalawa, yung US crisis nangyari dahil di na makabayad yung mga mayari ng subprime mortages. Sa POGOs naman may "addiction factor" na kahit lugi na yung isang chinese high roller hahanap at hahanap ng paraan yan para makapagsugal.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]

May kasabihan nga eh na, "Once a sugarol always a sugarol" kaya as long as the ph govt allows it di mauubusan ng customer ang POGOs.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]
Parang sigarilyo lang din, Nung pagpasok ng e-cigarettes/vapes, madaming umangal na tabaco farmers at mga cigarette makers na dapat daw higpitan at magkaroon ng control, pero yung sabi nilang baka mawala or humina yung demand sa Tabaco eh hindi naman nangyari.. It depends on the business, tsaka factor din talaga yung addiction sa isang product .. In this case.. Sugal.


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Originally Posted by Tokyo/Manila View Post

good ang POGO for short term.. parang Shared services..


well tama pwedeng pang hostage rin sa mga mainlanders pag nagkagirian [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]

pero ang long term solution parin ay manufacturing..
Yung mga firms na nasa POGO industry karamihan jan ay may mga manufacturing/real estate businesses din sa China.. Yun yung stockpile nila ng assets.. If ever ma establish yung business nila ng maayos sa Pinas, malamang mag diversify din mga yan.. Yung POGO kumbaga bayonet , kung maubusan ka ng bala sa gyera, atleast may gamit parin yung armas mo..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 12:06 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
I keep hearing the argument that "it will trickle down because the foreign employees will contribute to the economy".
Well that applies to all sectors and employees of all nationalities, especially Filipinos. We would see the same effect if the workers were all Filipino. In the end, it would be a far greater benefit for the Philippines if everyone hired were Filipinos themselves.

In addition, it's wrong to compare HK and Macau with Philippines. Neither HK nor Macau have an unemployment rate and poverty rate like that of Philippines, and a large part of these workers are domestic workers, mostly because the locals themselves aren't willing to work such. Alot of these workers also earns below the average wage in these respective countries, while POGO jobs have very high pay. Had thousands of foreigners come to Philippines to work as maids and nurses, that would be a different case.

So in the end, my point still stands. It would be far more beneficial for the Philippines if almost all these POGO investments hired mainly Filipinos. At the current rate, it's only a marginal benefit
And that is what worries me. At this rate, Philippines will recieve plenty of FDI but very little of it will go to generate quality jobs for Filipinos, which the Philippines is in DESPERATE need of.


I get your point but I consider POGOs as a bonus to the economy. Sort of like an adrenaline to the economy. Filipino employees would not make good employees for POGOs as they mainly deal with chinese customers. Even if Filipinos learn mandarin, the cultural differences would be too great. It is simply because the chinese prefer the chinese.

We should instead develop other industries such as manufacturing as mentioned above. This country really needs a manufacturing boost.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 12:16 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Magniko View Post

I keep hearing the argument that "it will trickle down because the foreign employees will contribute to the economy".
Well that applies to all sectors and employees of all nationalities, especially Filipinos. We would see the same effect if the workers were all Filipino. In the end, it would be a far greater benefit for the Philippines if everyone hired were Filipinos themselves.

In addition, it's wrong to compare HK and Macau with Philippines. Neither HK nor Macau have an unemployment rate and poverty rate like that of Philippines, and a large part of these workers are domestic workers, mostly because the locals themselves aren't willing to work such. Alot of these workers also earns below the average wage in these respective countries, while POGO jobs have very high pay. Had thousands of foreigners come to Philippines to work as maids and nurses, that would be a different case.

So in the end, my point still stands. It would be far more beneficial for the Philippines if almost all these POGO investments hired mainly Filipinos. At the current rate, it's only a marginal benefit
And that is what worries me. At this rate, Philippines will recieve plenty of FDI but very little of it will go to generate quality jobs for Filipinos, which the Philippines is in DESPERATE need of.
Mangyayari lang na magiging Filipino yung workers sa POGO is kung magiging second language ng Pilipinas yung Mandarin.. Other than that then wla.. You can't be choosy when you're the one in need.. When life throws you lemons.., you make them into Lemonades... Now yung POGOs nandyan na yan and is stimulating domestic consumption which is good for the economy.. Yung fear factor lang is on trying something new and pretty much unknown.. same as when the Philippines agreed on sending OFWs.. Daming anti kaseh.. brain-drain, kawawa yung local na businesses/companies.. Or yung paghijack ng BPO mula sa India na ang sabi mababawasan yung mga English Teachers satin kaseh mas pipiliin nila yung Call Centers... And yet here we are now .. OFWs and BPOs are literally carrying the Philippine Economy.. POGOs is just like that.. We should make the most out of it..
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Old July 11th, 2019, 06:22 PM   #492
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The other thing concerning POGO, or any deals with China, is it comes with other conditions. Remember what they did with our bananas and Chinese tourists when penoy started to stand up against China? In a worst case scenario when our relationship with China becomes sour again, what happens to these businesses which primarily and solely cater to the Chinese? What happens to these office buildings and condos, and hotels, and businesses which flourished because of this pivot?
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:17 PM   #493
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ang tawag sa ganyang katwiran ay "analysis paralysis" wag na kayo mag-pogo baka ma-kuwan tayo or baka ma-ano tayo balang-araw...
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:32 PM   #494
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The other thing concerning POGO, or any deals with China, is it comes with other conditions. Remember what they did with our bananas and Chinese tourists when penoy started to stand up against China? In a worst case scenario when our relationship with China becomes sour again, what happens to these businesses which primarily and solely cater to the Chinese? What happens to these office buildings and condos, and hotels, and businesses which flourished because of this pivot?
Business as usual, same as duterte standing up against the US even insulting the US president but the American BPO companies did not leave the philippines. And by the way, Pnoy did not stand up against china. He actually chickened out and did nothing after china started harassing filipino fishermen in scarborough shoal,militarizing islands in the spratlys in 2013 and hid under the useless arbitration case.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]

Lesson learned: Don't fight your largest trading partner if you can't back it up militarily and solve sea disputes in diplomatic and peaceful resolutions.
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Last edited by Bigcity23; July 11th, 2019 at 07:45 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 08:20 PM   #495
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Pogos: New growth driver
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Philippine offshore gaming operations, or Pogos, are reshaping the economy, just as the business process outsourcing sector sprang some 20 years ago to become a major source of employment and dollar earner.
The Pogos, according to a property consultant, are now set to become the largest consumer of office spaces in Metro Manila before the end of 2019, overtaking the BPOs. They will also soon become a major revenue source of the government. The state plans to collect at least P24 billion in taxes annually from the foreign workers employed in the offshore gaming operations in the Philippines.
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The Bureau of Immigration’s estimate of at least 138,000 workers are boosting consumption in the economy. They are driving the sales of restaurants, malls and bars in Metro Manila and other major urban centers in the Philippines.
http://manilastandard.net/opinion/ed...th-driver.html
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Old July 11th, 2019, 11:21 PM   #496
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Mangyayari lang na magiging Filipino yung workers sa POGO is kung magiging second language ng Pilipinas yung Mandarin.. Other than that then wla.. You can't be choosy when you're the one in need.. When life throws you lemons.., you make them into Lemonades... Now yung POGOs nandyan na yan and is stimulating domestic consumption which is good for the economy.. Yung fear factor lang is on trying something new and pretty much unknown.. same as when the Philippines agreed on sending OFWs.. Daming anti kaseh.. brain-drain, kawawa yung local na businesses/companies.. Or yung paghijack ng BPO mula sa India na ang sabi mababawasan yung mga English Teachers satin kaseh mas pipiliin nila yung Call Centers... And yet here we are now .. OFWs and BPOs are literally carrying the Philippine Economy.. POGOs is just like that.. We should make the most out of it..
The OFW experiment isn't very successful. Sure it keeps the economy afloat but the downsides it bring as a whole is not worth it in my opinion. This is just lazyness or even malice on the governmental side for decades. Ever since OFWs become prevalent since the late 90s, other countries has managed to lower their poverty at crazy rates while in Philippines the alleviation has been embarrassingly slow in comparison. So no, opting for the OFW model has not brought much benefits to the Philippines. In turn, it has resulted in inflationary effects on prices making food and basic needs costly for alot of Filipinos. In addition, it separates families, and exposes plenty of OFWs to abuse abroad sometimes resulting in death.
Not to forget that it has given certain internationals the impression that "Filipinos are a servant race/nation of maids and nurses" which is certainly not true at all, but it's not a very nice impression.


Why can't these economic models that has made these countries prosperous be replicated in the Philippines? Instead of sending their workers abroad, they made the investors come to their countries to provide jobs for the locals. Alot, if not most, of these jobs included manufacturing and food processing.
In addition, rather than constraining farmers for decades with draconian land-laws, they implemented reforms that allowed economies of scale in the agricultural secotr which naturally brought investors to the country side.

The only notable thing these countries did that I can see now is the massive infrastructure drive, a game that the Philippines is decades late to. Yet I honestly believe all we've seen is STILL not enough and is still too "Manila-centric". I don't see much progress on the Bicol or Mindanao-rail and I still think the current pipeline is too small. If they are so serious about BBB, why aren't there a rail-line going all the way to Tuguegarao and Laoag and an interisland highway network connected with bridges presented yet? Sure, they can't do it all at once, but right now we have seen around 70 or so Big-Ticket projects which were leftover from the previous admin ever since 2016 and yet no new ones have been introduced throughout these 3 years.

The legislators has had decades to draft a framework to make Philippines emulate these economies. Instead what we've seen is a "Sick Man of Asia".


If this is yet a another one of these "experiments" that takes focus away from implementing actually proven methods, then I truly expect Philippines to keep being the Sick Man of Asia for as long as nothing is done to truly make the agricultural and industry sector competitive and active. It's just another baby-patch
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Old July 12th, 2019, 02:14 AM   #497
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[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/previous.gif[/IMG] para sakin masmaganda kung Chinese parin yung nasa POGOs para mas malaki yung economic impact, damay kasi yung tourism dahil sa kanilang mga workers.. yung pagtuonan ng Pinoy is Educational Tourism.. specially sa Medecine, Seafaring, ESL etc.. Yung tipong exponential yung growth ng foreign students .. Para lalakas yung domestic consumption tapos damay din yung tourism at quality of education sa pinas.. At the moment yung bumubuhat ng tourism numbers satin eh Korean at Japanese students sa ESL tapos mga POGOs na Chinese.. Siguro naman mas mataas pa yung growth ceiling kung lakasan din yung Medical courses na karamihan mga Indian..

THese ESL students and POGO employees are counted in our tourist numbers? It's ironic the Koreans and Japanese are learning English in the PHils and the Filipinos are getting dumber in English.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 02:28 AM   #498
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The OFW experiment isn't very successful. Sure it keeps the economy afloat but the downsides it bring as a whole is not worth it in my opinion. This is just lazyness or even malice on the governmental side for decades. Ever since OFWs become prevalent since the late 90s, other countries has managed to lower their poverty at crazy rates while in Philippines the alleviation has been embarrassingly slow in comparison. So no, opting for the OFW model has not brought much benefits to the Philippines. In turn, it has resulted in inflationary effects on prices making food and basic needs costly for alot of Filipinos. In addition, it separates families, and exposes plenty of OFWs to abuse abroad sometimes resulting in death.
Not to forget that it has given certain internationals the impression that "Filipinos are a servant race/nation of maids and nurses" which is certainly not true at all, but it's not a very nice impression.


Why can't these economic models that has made these countries prosperous be replicated in the Philippines? Instead of sending their workers abroad, they made the investors come to their countries to provide jobs for the locals. Alot, if not most, of these jobs included manufacturing and food processing.
In addition, rather than constraining farmers for decades with draconian land-laws, they implemented reforms that allowed economies of scale in the agricultural secotr which naturally brought investors to the country side.

The only notable thing these countries did that I can see now is the massive infrastructure drive, a game that the Philippines is decades late to. Yet I honestly believe all we've seen is STILL not enough and is still too "Manila-centric". I don't see much progress on the Bicol or Mindanao-rail and I still think the current pipeline is too small. If they are so serious about BBB, why aren't there a rail-line going all the way to Tuguegarao and Laoag and an interisland highway network connected with bridges presented yet? Sure, they can't do it all at once, but right now we have seen around 70 or so Big-Ticket projects which were leftover from the previous admin ever since 2016 and yet no new ones have been introduced throughout these 3 years.

The legislators has had decades to draft a framework to make Philippines emulate these economies. Instead what we've seen is a "Sick Man of Asia".


If this is yet a another one of these "experiments" that takes focus away from implementing actually proven methods, then I truly expect Philippines to keep being the Sick Man of Asia for as long as nothing is done to truly make the agricultural and industry sector competitive and active. It's just another baby-patch
BPO and this POGO won't make the PHils rich as a country. Have you seen any person get rich from working in a call center. Nevertheless it's good to have for non skilled or high school graduates. If you're a skilled or university graduate for a particular discipline can you imagine wasting your hard earned degree answering phones? In the US it's considered a dead end job. THe rich ASian countries got rich because they focused on science and technology which made them self reliant in everything even having excess to export to other countries.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:00 AM   #499
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Hope na ma rebase ang gdp. Included yung Pogo
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Old July 12th, 2019, 03:17 AM   #500
TambayBlues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NE Visionary View Post
Maybe because gambling is strictly prohibited in Muslim and Buddhist ASEAN countries. Here we are liberal Christians open to massive gambling operations. 🙄
Only in Muslim countries is it strictly prohibited. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear if Royal families in the Middle East engage in high stakes gambling in Monaco or patronize high-class prostitutes in Europe and elsewhere which are considered serious "sins" in their creed.

Gambling has long been in existence in East Asian culture even before the advent of casinos which are nothing more than legally institutionalized gambling venues. Pachinko machines for example are just as prevalent as vending machines in Japan.
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