Environmental Protection, Conservation, and Rehabilitation - Page 33 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Philippine Forums > Around the Philippines > The Economy, Industry and Development Issues

The Economy, Industry and Development Issues Current news and events with regards to the economy, industry and urban development issues


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 10th, 2019, 05:42 PM   #641
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,234
Likes (Received): 4907

Other than garbage, we have the issue of reclamation. Here is an interesting article, quoting DILG Sec and his Deputy. Grade school science taught us about water displacement, nice example from Epimaco Densing (Thank goodness for people like him in government.)

Quote:
Local Govt chief Año, deputy oppose Manila Bay reclamation project
BY CATHERINE A. MODESTO

MARCH 10, 2019

LOCAL GOVT CHIEF AÑO, DEPUTY OPPOSE MANILA BAY RECLAMATION PROJECT
LOCAL Government Secretary Eduardo Año and his deputy are opposing the Manila Bay reclamation projects for they may end “killing people and destroying properties in Manila Bay.”

“Ako po sa personal, ayaw ko po ng reclamation. Wala pa po ako sa gobyerno, nilalabanan ko na ang reclamation sa Manila Bay. At bumulong si Secretary Año sa akin, ayoko rin ng reclamation (For me personally, I reject reclamation. Even before I entered the government, I was fighting against the Manila Bay reclamation. And Sec. [Eduardo] Año, [the DILG secretary], whispered to me that he’s also against the projects),” said Local and Interior Government Undersecretary Epimaco Densing Jr. in the media forum “Balitaan sa Maynila” on Sunday.
---------------------------------------------------------------
“Napakasimple ng explanation jan, pag baso ng tubig nilagyan mo ng ice, tataas ang tubig.(The explanation there is so simple. If you put ice in a glass of water, the water will overflow. There will be flooding in Metro Manila. That’s a million percent sure), Densing said.

He cited last year’s flooding incident along Roxas Boulevard, which was flooded with garbage.

https://www.manilatimes.net/local-go...roject/523418/
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

Sky_Higher liked this post
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 11th, 2019, 04:14 AM   #642
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,871
Likes (Received): 2764

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Other than garbage, we have the issue of reclamation. Here is an interesting article, quoting DILG Sec and his Deputy. Grade school science taught us about water displacement, nice example from Epimaco Densing (Thank goodness for people like him in government.)
The Netherlands has been doing that since birth! Why can't you do it in a smaller scale? Your guy (and others who oppose reclamation projects) are misinformed or are thinking like the frog inside a well. The frog thinks the world is as big as the opening he sees in his kingdom when he looks up.

Assume you are displacing about 100 hectares of sea water that is more or less 17 meters deep (average depth of Manila Bay) = 17 million cubic meters. You then spread that out to the world ocean which is 1.332 billion cubic kilometers! You don't even raise the mean sea water level by a hair's diameter deep!
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken

boodex liked this post
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2019, 10:39 PM   #643
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,234
Likes (Received): 4907

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
The Netherlands has been doing that since birth! Why can't you do it in a smaller scale? Your guy (and others who oppose reclamation projects) are misinformed or are thinking like the frog inside a well. The frog thinks the world is as big as the opening he sees in his kingdom when he looks up.

Assume you are displacing about 100 hectares of sea water that is more or less 17 meters deep (average depth of Manila Bay) = 17 million cubic meters. You then spread that out to the world ocean which is 1.332 billion cubic kilometers! You don't even raise the mean sea water level by a hair's diameter deep!
Ay naku...so simple isn't it? Education is sometimes wasted on some people. Learning how to calculate displacement doesn't mean you know to work it in real life applications.

The Dutch did not spread the water to the ocean but kept the water out with dikes. It took them centuries, and even decades in the 20th century to keep out the flooding (also with the help of pumps).https://www.thoughtco.com/polders-an...rlands-1435535

Smaller scale? Reclaiming in Manila Bay for 2 runways may be smaller scale to you but the impact is on a much bigger scale. That would be like the roadworks along Hagonoy, Paombong etc where the roads were raised a few feet, and water just went into people's homes/yards on the side and nowhere to direct the water. Pray tell me how do they spread the water into the world's ocean from their yard?

I'm sure you know water seeks the lowest level. And the lowest level are along the shoreline of Manila Bay from Pampanga to Cavite. And you also know that once upon a time, the shores of Manila Bay from Pampanga to Cavite, and Laguna, were marshlands, wetlands and swamps which acted as the sponge for all that water. These marshlands and swamps were reclaimed and inhabited before they actually did anything to contain or deal with all that water.

If we are to learn from the Dutch who were smart, they fixed the problem with the water and flooding first before reclaiming. I hope you understood "my" guy's point. Cause and effect. Elementary.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

florentin liked this post
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 13th, 2019, 01:58 AM   #644
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,871
Likes (Received): 2764

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Ay naku...so simple isn't it? Education is sometimes wasted on some people. Learning how to calculate displacement doesn't mean you know to work it in real life applications.

The Dutch did not spread the water to the ocean but kept the water out with dikes. It took them centuries, and even decades in the 20th century to keep out the flooding (also with the help of pumps).https://www.thoughtco.com/polders-an...rlands-1435535

Smaller scale? Reclaiming in Manila Bay for 2 runways may be smaller scale to you but the impact is on a much bigger scale. That would be like the roadworks along Hagonoy, Paombong etc where the roads were raised a few feet, and water just went into people's homes/yards on the side and nowhere to direct the water. Pray tell me how do they spread the water into the world's ocean from their yard?

I'm sure you know water seeks the lowest level. And the lowest level are along the shoreline of Manila Bay from Pampanga to Cavite. And you also know that once upon a time, the shores of Manila Bay from Pampanga to Cavite, and Laguna, were marshlands, wetlands and swamps which acted as the sponge for all that water. These marshlands and swamps were reclaimed and inhabited before they actually did anything to contain or deal with all that water.

If we are to learn from the Dutch who were smart, they fixed the problem with the water and flooding first before reclaiming. I hope you understood "my" guy's point. Cause and effect. Elementary.
You are thinking like those Greenpeace thugs. You think humans make a big difference with what people do so those activities could make an impact on earth! Please think that what is big for you will be just a tick on an elephants hair. i hope you get the wholistic point of view.
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 13th, 2019, 11:04 AM   #645
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 735
Likes (Received): 1402

March 13 2019

Manila Bay Rehab


Boracay
__________________

s_w_stars, dipdown liked this post
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 13th, 2019, 04:00 PM   #646
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,234
Likes (Received): 4907

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
You are thinking like those Greenpeace thugs. You think humans make a big difference with what people do so those activities could make an impact on earth! Please think that what is big for you will be just a tick on an elephants hair. i hope you get the wholistic point of view.
Ay naku again...resorting to namecalling doesn't suit a supposedly educated man. Wholistic? Yes, that's why you have to look at it on a larger scale, not just a reclamation in Manila Bay, also the effects inland considering the current conditions. Putting reclamation offshore in Bulacan without addressing a BIGGER issue first, well, that shows how little the "reclamadors" like you think of the issue. You seem to be hung on reclaiming at all cost, whereas, I have nothing against reclamation but WHERE and HOW. It's not just a matter of calculating water displacement which I know you can do. Learn from that ice cube analogy. Learn from the Dutch.

Your argument reminds me of the roadworks in Bulacan. They raised the roadways without thinking of the effect on the houses on either side and no way to diver floodwater from these houses, as you say, "spreading the water into the ocean."
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

dipdown liked this post

Last edited by s_w_stars; March 13th, 2019 at 05:38 PM.
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 13th, 2019, 04:49 PM   #647
KingJack Mafia
Registered Filipino
 
KingJack Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cauayan City
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 210

Dapat hindi ituloy ang Kaliwa dam sa Quezon. Isa ito sa mga area na tinitirahan ng mga endagered species lalo na ang Philippine eagle. Kailangan ng isang Philippine eagle ang malawak na lupain na covered forest at maaring makaapekto ang construction nito sa mga existing nest ng eagle. Kakaunti na lamang po ang mga active nest na meron sa Luzon kaya kasalanan ng dam na ito kung mababawasan pa.
Mismong Haribon foundation na po nagsabi.
https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news...haribon/story/
__________________

s_w_stars liked this post

Last edited by KingJack Mafia; March 13th, 2019 at 04:56 PM.
KingJack Mafia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2019, 09:43 AM   #648
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,871
Likes (Received): 2764

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Ay naku again...resorting to namecalling doesn't suit a supposedly educated man. Wholistic? Yes, that's why you have to look at it on a larger scale, not just a reclamation in Manila Bay, also the effects inland considering the current conditions. Putting reclamation offshore in Bulacan without addressing a BIGGER issue first, well, that shows how little the "reclamadors" like you think of the issue. You seem to be hung on reclaiming at all cost, whereas, I have nothing against reclamation but WHERE and HOW. It's not just a matter of calculating water displacement which I know you can do. Learn from that ice cube analogy. Learn from the Dutch.

Your argument reminds me of the roadworks in Bulacan. They raised the roadways without thinking of the effect on the houses on either side and no way to diver floodwater from these houses, as you say, "spreading the water into the ocean."
It seems you haven't reviewed much on what the Dutch had done to expand their country. No amount of changing the topic into some roadworks or whatever could disprove the fact that reclamation works fine. It's high time people read the truth about that reclamation and be informed.
Read here:
LINK1
LINK2
LINK3
LINK4
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2019, 03:34 PM   #649
KingJack Mafia
Registered Filipino
 
KingJack Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cauayan City
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 210

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
It seems you haven't reviewed much on what the Dutch had done to expand their country. No amount of changing the topic into some roadworks or whatever could disprove the fact that reclamation works fine. It's high time people read the truth about that reclamation and be informed.
Read here:
LINK1
LINK2
LINK3
LINK4
Pakibasa po itong research journal, mismong Netherlands po ito isinigawa. In situ research type po ito kaya maganda pagbasehan ng katototahanan.

"It will be demonstrated that it was impossible to make reliable cost calculations of the potential damage to housing, infrastructure, crops and environment due to the construction of the polder, without proper knowledge of the geological conditions of the area and its wide surroundings." - Mulder, Bruchem, Claessen, Hannink, Hulsbergen, Satjin, 1993

Iyan po ang konklusyon nila, sinasabi na kakailanganin ng geologic study mismo ng area na pagagawan ng reclamation upang malaman ang epekto nito. Kung maari po ay magbigay kayo ng credible study na nagsasabi na minimal ang epekto ng reclamation mismo sa Manila Bay. Case to case basis po ito kaya hindi niyo masasabi na minimal lang ang epekto ng reclamation gamit ang mga references na ibinigay ninyo.

Ito po ang link ng research paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...13795294900787
Ang pamagat ay Environmental impact assessment on land reclamation projects in The Netherlands: A case history
__________________
City of Cauayan
A Smarter City
Ideal City of the North

s_w_stars liked this post
KingJack Mafia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2019, 08:25 PM   #650
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 735
Likes (Received): 1402

March 14 2019

Manila Bay Rehab


Boracay
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2019, 12:33 AM   #651
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,234
Likes (Received): 4907

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
It seems you haven't reviewed much on what the Dutch had done to expand their country. No amount of changing the topic into some roadworks or whatever could disprove the fact that reclamation works fine. It's high time people read the truth about that reclamation and be informed.
Read here:
LINK1
LINK2
LINK3
LINK4
If you care to read my post, I said, I'm NOT against reclamation per se but WHERE and HOW. You sound like you're a salesman for reclamation projects, are you? You need to know the impact of any reclamation in a specific area, in this case Manila Bay and impact on the surrounding area. Has there been an impact study of reclaiming in Manila Bay, much less a comprehensive environmental study of the Manila Bay area?

As for the roadworks, I wasn't skirting the issue. You just didn't get it.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

Last edited by s_w_stars; March 15th, 2019 at 12:41 AM.
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 11:31 AM   #652
KingJack Mafia
Registered Filipino
 
KingJack Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cauayan City
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 210

Susubukan pa tayo lokohin ng gobyerno tsk tsk
Ginagamit pa ang water crisis para matuloy ang Kaliwa dam.
May ibang paraan pa upang masolusyunan ang water crisis sa Manila. Mahalaga na maproteksyunan ang mga natitirang kagubatan ng ating bansa.

http://www.cnnphilippines.com/news/2...zon-China.html

Hindi naman ibig-sabihin na for the best ang kaliwa dam kahit mas maganda ang china loan kumpara sa china loan ni Gloria. Naghahanap pa ng paraan upang makautang tsk tsk.
https://business.inquirer.net/266714...nwDVUSgFJXed.1
__________________

florentin liked this post
KingJack Mafia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 03:30 PM   #653
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-
Welcome to the Planet
 
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,134
Likes (Received): 3830

I get the environmental concerns pero speculative at best chinese debt fearmongering na naman?
__________________
DFB-GER '14 - Schweinsteiger #31/Messi #10 - Scuderia Ferrari - #DC Joker/BoP/WW'84


s_w_stars liked this post
-SNPKLSDMBLDR- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 04:08 PM   #654
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,684
Likes (Received): 2907

Yup. Dilawan scare tactics. Zero proof that it's a trap.

fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 04:40 PM   #655
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,234
Likes (Received): 4907

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJack Mafia View Post
Susubukan pa tayo lokohin ng gobyerno tsk tsk
Ginagamit pa ang water crisis para matuloy ang Kaliwa dam.
May ibang paraan pa upang masolusyunan ang water crisis sa Manila. Mahalaga na maproteksyunan ang mga natitirang kagubatan ng ating bansa.

http://www.cnnphilippines.com/news/2...zon-China.html

Hindi naman ibig-sabihin na for the best ang kaliwa dam kahit mas maganda ang china loan kumpara sa china loan ni Gloria. Naghahanap pa ng paraan upang makautang tsk tsk.
https://business.inquirer.net/266714...nwDVUSgFJXed.1
They're both loans from China neither here nor there. But there are gov't officials eager to borrow money just for the sake of borrowing money whether China or Japan. Similar to financial institutions offering/enticing consumers credit cards and low interest loans, to buy this and that. We've all been through that I'm sure. We end up buying things we don't need. I've seen the issue about the Kaliwa dam on you tube. This one really has to go through thorough eia, not only impact on the environment but on the people living there.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

KingJack Mafia liked this post
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 06:24 PM   #656
absinthe_888
Registered User
 
absinthe_888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,427
Likes (Received): 11355

If we can't pay a P12B loan, then the country is truly and utterly fcked.
__________________
"Honestly, I have identified the enemy who dumped us into this quagmire we are in. I have met the enemy face to face. And sadly, the enemy is us. We are our own tormentors."

PRRD, #SONA2019
absinthe_888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 07:08 PM   #657
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,684
Likes (Received): 2907

Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
If we can't pay a P12B loan, then the country is truly and utterly fcked.
Debt to GDP ratio has never been better

We are good, if not great, at paying our debts

Banks and countries have been urging us to borrow more

Dilawan scare tactics. Pathetic.
__________________

johnmizer_ver_2 liked this post
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2019, 09:43 PM   #658
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-
Welcome to the Planet
 
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,134
Likes (Received): 3830

Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
If we can't pay a P12B loan, then the country is truly and utterly fcked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretburner View Post
Debt to GDP ratio has never been better

We are good, if not great, at paying our debts

Banks and countries have been urging us to borrow more

Dilawan scare tactics. Pathetic.
we have no problems wasting money on Dengvaxia worth 3.6 Billion and non existent health centers worth 10.6 Billion but somehow this Kaliwa dam is yet another Chinese debt trap that will put the country into another Venezuela.
__________________
DFB-GER '14 - Schweinsteiger #31/Messi #10 - Scuderia Ferrari - #DC Joker/BoP/WW'84


s_w_stars liked this post
-SNPKLSDMBLDR- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2019, 06:59 AM   #659
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,684
Likes (Received): 2907

That's Dilawan "logic"
__________________

johnmizer_ver_2 liked this post
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2019, 04:34 AM   #660
absinthe_888
Registered User
 
absinthe_888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,427
Likes (Received): 11355

Segue ng unti sa usaping tubeeeeeg:

__________________
"Honestly, I have identified the enemy who dumped us into this quagmire we are in. I have met the enemy face to face. And sadly, the enemy is us. We are our own tormentors."

PRRD, #SONA2019
absinthe_888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Tags
asia, environment, philippines

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:16 PM. • styleid: 14


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us