Environmental Protection, Conservation, and Rehabilitation - Page 36 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Philippine Forums > Around the Philippines > The Economy, Industry and Development Issues

The Economy, Industry and Development Issues Current news and events with regards to the economy, industry and urban development issues


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 19th, 2019, 09:42 AM   #701
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJack Mafia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretburner View Post
So a weir is a dam to you?
A weir can meet the water supply needed. That's what you need to know.
A weir has less environmental damage and it avoids the flooding a dam can cause.
The problem about a weir is that it won't store water.. It's only good for countries with snow capped mountains that has constant flow in their rivers during summer .. During dry season that river in Sierra Madre has less waterflow in it so it doesn't really address the problem.. It will just be another Cardona plant.. I hiked that area when I had a girlfriend's family residing there long time ago.. 😅..
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 19th, 2019, 09:46 AM   #702
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Boracay



Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 10:40 AM   #703
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,882
Likes (Received): 2772

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
The problem about a weir is that it won't store water.. It's only good for countries with snow capped mountains that has constant flow in their rivers during summer .. During dry season that river in Sierra Madre has less waterflow in it so it doesn't really address the problem.. It will just be another Cardona plant.. I hiked that area when I had a girlfriend's family residing there long time ago.. 😅..
When you shall have the concrete figures re volume of water needs, you need to attack the problem piece-meal to avoid impacting other people who are "legally" eking a living in those areas. It's not a good enough reason to make the inhabitants of Metro Manila "live in heaven" while sacrificing the lives of those nice souls at the areas where water will inundate!

Making big dams harms the ecosystem. The fishes will have a hard time navigating the streams, etc. While the US made it a program to decommission dams, here we are trying to make lots of it. Lots of smaller impounding lakes could solve that. The point is to maintain a balance of the pros and cons; careful to catch enough rainwater that usually ends up going down to the sea as floodwater. The usual thing here at our country is when dams top off during rainy seasons, we can usually hear dam authorities releasing water, which is a sure sign that we need more storage capacity for the lean summer months.
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken

KingJack Mafia, s_w_stars liked this post
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 19th, 2019, 10:53 AM   #704
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,701
Likes (Received): 2934

^ Again, Government has to act for the greatest good for the greatest numbers.

I'm sure whoever will be displaced will be properly and legally compensated
__________________

Bigcity23 liked this post
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 01:49 PM   #705
KingJack Mafia
Registered Filipino
 
KingJack Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cauayan City
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 210

Quote:
Originally Posted by fretburner View Post
^ Again, Government has to act for the greatest good for the greatest numbers.

I'm sure whoever will be displaced will be properly and legally compensated
Yes, it's true the government has to act for the greatest good for the greatest numbers. Do you know how hard it is for the tribes to let go of their land they got from their ancestors. This government, if it is compassionate to the greater numbers, would go with the Japanese proposal.
The government is given a choice to avoid the inhabitants being affected. Japanese plan have lesser affected communities in Kaliwa.

i'M sUre wHoEveR WilL be DisPlaCed wIlL be Properly and legally compensated? This is what they always say for every projects that displaced indigenous people. I'm sure that this government can't be trusted with that. See what happened to Lumads due to Martial Law and Aetas due to Clark City.
__________________
City of Cauayan
A Smarter City
Ideal City of the North

Last edited by KingJack Mafia; March 19th, 2019 at 01:55 PM.
KingJack Mafia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 01:58 PM   #706
KingJack Mafia
Registered Filipino
 
KingJack Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cauayan City
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 210

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
When you shall have the concrete figures re volume of water needs, you need to attack the problem piece-meal to avoid impacting other people who are "legally" eking a living in those areas. It's not a good enough reason to make the inhabitants of Metro Manila "live in heaven" while sacrificing the lives of those nice souls at the areas where water will inundate!

Making big dams harms the ecosystem. The fishes will have a hard time navigating the streams, etc. While the US made it a program to decommission dams, here we are trying to make lots of it. Lots of smaller impounding lakes could solve that. The point is to maintain a balance of the pros and cons; careful to catch enough rainwater that usually ends up going down to the sea as floodwater. The usual thing here at our country is when dams top off during rainy seasons, we can usually hear dam authorities releasing water, which is a sure sign that we need more storage capacity for the lean summer months.
It's good that someone here got what I've been saying. This project not only involves the water reservoir itself but also the indigenous community and environment in Kaliwa.
Fretburner, you have to take note from him.

Paulit ulit, kailangan natin tignan ang iba't-ibang factors sa project. Hindi po ito simpleng dam na itatayo sa isang lugar na walang nakatira na tao o hayop.
__________________
City of Cauayan
A Smarter City
Ideal City of the North

Last edited by KingJack Mafia; March 19th, 2019 at 02:05 PM.
KingJack Mafia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 02:03 PM   #707
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,701
Likes (Received): 2934

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJack Mafia View Post
Yes, it's true the government has to act for the greatest good for the greatest numbers. Do you know how hard it is for the tribes to let go of their land they got from their ancestors. This government, if it is compassionate to the greater numbers, would go with the Japanese proposal.
The government is given a choice to avoid the inhabitants being affected. Japanese plan have lesser affected communities in Kaliwa.
Show me the numbers. How many tribes/communities were affected with this 2008 Japanese proposal vs the 2014 PPP Dam vs this 2018 Chinese Dam?

If the Japanese 2008 proposal was so good, why didn't GMA or Noynoy approve it? If the 2014 PPP had much less impact on the environment, why didn't Noynoy break ground?

Quote:
i'M sUre wHoEveR WilL be DisPlaCed wIlL be Properly and legally compensated? This is what they always say for every projects that displaced indigenous people. I'm sure that this government can't be trusted with that. See what happened to Lumads due to Martial Law and Aetas due to Clark City.
When was the last time you talked to a Lumad in Mindanao?

Btw, have you seen this administration's DAR distributing land left and right?
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 02:05 PM   #708
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,701
Likes (Received): 2934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
When you shall have the concrete figures re volume of water needs, you need to attack the problem piece-meal to avoid impacting other people who are "legally" eking a living in those areas. It's not a good enough reason to make the inhabitants of Metro Manila "live in heaven" while sacrificing the lives of those nice souls at the areas where water will inundate!

Making big dams harms the ecosystem. The fishes will have a hard time navigating the streams, etc. While the US made it a program to decommission dams, here we are trying to make lots of it. Lots of smaller impounding lakes could solve that. The point is to maintain a balance of the pros and cons; careful to catch enough rainwater that usually ends up going down to the sea as floodwater. The usual thing here at our country is when dams top off during rainy seasons, we can usually hear dam authorities releasing water, which is a sure sign that we need more storage capacity for the lean summer months.
You haven't been paying attention haven't you?

Just listen to MWSS's explanation at the beginning of the congressional hearing:



Or, you can flip to slide 5 of this 2014 presentation: New Centennial Water Source - Kaliwa Dam Project
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 07:29 PM   #709
Bigcity23
Registered User
 
Bigcity23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 69
Likes (Received): 131

Ok na yang dam. At 73 meters, its not even that big. Dadating din yung panahon na pasasalamatan ng mga taga metro manila si digong dahil tinuloy nya ang pag gawa ng dam na ito kahit madaming kontra.
__________________
Truth will outlast any campaign mounted against it, no matter how mighty, clever, or long.. It is invincible and no amount of persistent propaganda can hide it.


Abante Pilipinas!!
Bigcity23 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 07:44 PM   #710
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,246
Likes (Received): 4909

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcity23 View Post
Ok na yang dam. At 73 meters, its not even that big. Dadating din yung panahon na pasasalamatan ng mga taga metro manila si digong dahil tinuloy nya ang pag gawa ng dam na ito kahit madaming kontra.
The better option is to look at Laguna de Bai as a reservoir. By dredging it, they can hold more cubic l of water and mitigate flooding.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

KingJack Mafia liked this post
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 07:48 PM   #711
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,246
Likes (Received): 4909

dp
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 07:51 PM   #712
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,246
Likes (Received): 4909

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
The problem about a weir is that it won't store water.. It's only good for countries with snow capped mountains that has constant flow in their rivers during summer .. During dry season that river in Sierra Madre has less waterflow in it so it doesn't really address the problem.. It will just be another Cardona plant.. I hiked that area when I had a girlfriend's family residing there long time ago.. 😅..
This is where water conservation comes in. How about creating underground reservoir or cisterns for excess water? Nowadays, we can NOT just rely on mother nature, even in snow capped mountains of countries, you either have a deluge or drought. Secondly, consumers should may be start building houses with rain barrels connected to gutters or even underground cisterns to conserve water.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes

Last edited by s_w_stars; March 19th, 2019 at 08:21 PM. Reason: correction
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 07:52 PM   #713
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Kung buhay lang si Lakandula at Rajah Sulayman baka pinagtataga na nila lahat ng nakaupo.. Yung ninuno natin pinili yung Metro manila para tirhan kaseh dami sources ng tubig.. Yung laguna na sobrang laki ginawa lang sewer lagoon. Di pinangalagaan ng sumunod na henerasyon...For me a Dam would be the best for now.. In the future we should maximize Laguna.. Remove fispens and residents from Talim island, Put Caissons around the entire lake 1km away from the shore, towards the water.. Dredge it then put the all muck in the shoreline upto the caissons.. That will decrease the size of the lake, but it will also make communities around lake to be away from the shoreline by 1km.. Then plant millions of trees on the muck ....
__________________

s_w_stars, johnmizer_ver_2 liked this post
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 08:10 PM   #714
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
The problem about a weir is that it won't store water.. It's only good for countries with snow capped mountains that has constant flow in their rivers during summer .. During dry season that river in Sierra Madre has less waterflow in it so it doesn't really address the problem.. It will just be another Cardona plant.. I hiked that area when I had a girlfriend's family residing there long time ago.. 😅..
This is water conservation comes in. How about creating underground reservoir or cisterns for excess water? Nowadays, we can just rely on mother nature, even in snow capped mountains of countries, you either have a deluge or drought.

Cisterns also occuppies space and digging/building it is quite expensive... Its only good for smaller areas but to make hundreds of those as main storage of water for a 20M metropolis is not really feasible.. Makati for example the 1sqm land is 50k up and then the building costs.. Kaliwa Dam is still better option .. It's less than 20B and is an earning investment .. Saving water should always be a priority but you should also consider the financial allocation available .. As for now a weir is cheaper but in a long run or in a case of drought it will not be good.. Imagine the river running dry ,.. since a weir don't exactly store water like a dam then it will be water crisis again. I have reservations for the natives though.. But I guess it depends on how the government cover them.. A new community on the otherside near the dam is a good option.. They can even work for the dam like The planting and protecting of the watershed.. Etc... There's no prefect solution IMO..
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 08:28 PM   #715
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,246
Likes (Received): 4909

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
Cisterns also occuppies space and digging/building it is quite expensive... Its only good for smaller areas but to make hundreds of those as main storage of water for a 20M metropolis is not really feasible.. Makati for example the 1sqm land is 50k up and then the building costs.. Kaliwa Dam is still better option .. It's less than 20B and is an earning investment .. Saving water should always be a priority but you should also consider the financial allocation available .. As for now a weir is cheaper but in a long run or in a case of drought it will not be good.. Imagine the river running dry ,.. since a weir don't exactly store water like a dam then it will be water crisis again. I have reservations for the natives though.. But I guess it depends on how the government cover them.. A new community on the otherside near the dam is a good option.. They can even work for the dam like The planting and protecting of the watershed.. Etc... There's no prefect solution IMO..
It doesn't have to be in Makati I don't where the treatment plant is, but usually they're not in city center but away from inhabited areas. I'm not sure where the proposed Kaliwa dam is, but somewhere there.

Right now, we can't say it's costly to dig water cisterns for new builds etc, but we're not accounting for the future cost of all these water shortage. Water conservation the way to go. There are many ways to do it. Even in expensive Germany I've seen suburban houses with water barrels connected to the gutter; in Papua New Guinea, my friends have these fibreglas tank with the gutter connected to the top, same in Bermuda (according to friends). If the country does not practice water conservation (there are ways), its people will be the loser. (F.y.i., I asked our clients in Bulacan, to create water reservoir to ensure there's supply of water for their future fish ponds.)

Anyway, I'm for Laguna de Bai not the weirs and dams.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2019, 09:52 PM   #716
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post

It doesn't have to be in Makati [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG] I don't where the treatment plant is, but usually they're not in city center but away from inhabited areas. I'm not sure where the proposed Kaliwa dam is, but somewhere there.

Right now, we can't say it's costly to dig water cisterns for new builds etc, but we're not accounting for the future cost of all these water shortage. Water conservation the way to go. There are many ways to do it. Even in expensive Germany I've seen suburban houses with water barrels connected to the gutter; in Papua New Guinea, my friends have these fibreglas tank with the gutter connected to the top, same in Bermuda (according to friends). If the country does not practice water conservation (there are ways), its people will be the loser. (F.y.i., I asked our clients in Bulacan, to create water reservoir to ensure there's supply of water for their future fish ponds.)

Anyway, I'm for Laguna de Bai not the weirs and dams. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]
I live in QC on the sparsely populated side and land here is 45k per square meter which is still expensive ... Metro Manila's land value is very high.. So finding spaces for cisterns will be a challenge.. I had a batchmate worked in making BGC... They had that gargantuan cistern below the Park @ 20M deep, the cost is enough to build a midrise building and yet they only get enough water for the plants and keep the fountains running.. The problem is that Filipinos use more water... We bath every day, we wash our laundry every now and then.. We're hygienic and heavy users of water compared to other nationalities.. The usage here is usually 1cubic metre of water per square meter of living space to 10+cubic meter of water per square meter of living space in built up areas per day.. Having cisterns will help conserve water but making cisterns is not really affordable for your regular Filipino household.. Anyways that's NEDA's and MWSS problems not ours.. They should come up with a compact solution today.
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2019, 02:44 AM   #717
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,882
Likes (Received): 2772

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
Cisterns also occuppies space and digging/building it is quite expensive... Its only good for smaller areas but to make hundreds of those as main storage of water for a 20M metropolis is not really feasible.. Makati for example the 1sqm land is 50k up and then the building costs.. Kaliwa Dam is still better option .. It's less than 20B and is an earning investment .. Saving water should always be a priority but you should also consider the financial allocation available .. As for now a weir is cheaper but in a long run or in a case of drought it will not be good.. Imagine the river running dry ,.. since a weir don't exactly store water like a dam then it will be water crisis again. I have reservations for the natives though.. But I guess it depends on how the government cover them.. A new community on the otherside near the dam is a good option.. They can even work for the dam like The planting and protecting of the watershed.. Etc... There's no prefect solution IMO..
Saying that, please remember that having a big storage cistern is very much a reality. Look at Kasukabe City, Saitama Prefecture, Japan which built the biggest cistern. LINK

The underground tank is 177m long, 78 meters wide, 18m high, with 59 pillars and each of those pillars is 7m long, 2m wide and weighs about 500 tons)
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken

s_w_stars liked this post
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2019, 06:37 AM   #718
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 1406

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post

Saying that, please remember that having a big storage cistern is very much a reality. Look at Kasukabe City, Saitama Prefecture, Japan which built the biggest cistern. LINK

The underground tank is 177m long, 78 meters wide, 18m high, with 59 pillars and each of those pillars is 7m long, 2m wide and weighs about 500 tons)
The design & technical specs are very much possible but on the financial & revenue side it's very much an uphill climb.. Our legislators can't even manage to pass the annual budget on time.. Like all of the project suggestions.. It boils down to financial feasibility in which this kind of project is not that pleasing to the eyes of the planners.. Sewerage system for example is one of these types of projects.. It's badly needed but it's not the immediate concern.. The bulk of the budget goes to education, defense etc.. which of course are of higher priority...
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2019, 06:58 AM   #719
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,882
Likes (Received): 2772

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekoy View Post
The design & technical specs are very much possible but on the financial & revenue side it's very much an uphill climb.. Our legislators can't even manage to pass the annual budget on time.. Like all of the project suggestions.. It boils down to financial feasibility in which this kind of project is not that pleasing to the eyes of the planners.. Sewerage system for example is one of these types of projects.. It's badly needed but it's not the immediate concern.. The bulk of the budget goes to education, defense etc.. which of course are of higher priority...
Then, the issue right now is prioritizing things. When a solution is conceived and there is consensus to build it, nothing is impossible--> including funding, IMHO.
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken

s_w_stars liked this post
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2019, 07:15 AM   #720
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,701
Likes (Received): 2934

Bayani mentioned Marikina never had problems with water because they built their own reservoir. He suggested that maybe every LGU will build their own.

Sounds expensive. But if they have the money, then it isn't that bad of an idea.
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Tags
asia, environment, philippines

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:52 PM. • styleid: 14


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us