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Old November 18th, 2019, 11:15 PM   #381
Stuu
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Between Newton Abbot & Exeter St D. takes about 20 mins by IET. They run about every hour, but about every half hour(ish) or so during busy spells.

The X Country to answer your question run roughly every hour to the north or Scotland, sometimes slightly more, or less frequent depending on the time of the day. So they would fit between.

I'm not sure how long a stopping class 150 takes to get to St Davids? Stopping at Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren, Starcross, St Thomas & St Davids about 1/2 hour? or more?. I would allow about a 5 minute clearance ahead of an IET in this case. It can be 2 minutes departing a main station with for instance an IET and a Voyager, as they keep that much ahead (say to Tiverton & Taunton)..but a local stopper needs more time.

I still cant understand the 17 minute wait at D Warren. It is not much more than 5 minutes to St D from there...plenty of time to clear a path, unless as I say platform space - with all the local services, X Country, SW Trains and a Paddington due it...there aint much space!
All stations St Davids to Newton Abbot takes 40 minutes, and its 15 minutes from Dawlish Warren to St Davids if stopping. As I explained above, the London train runs in it's normal path so it's an extra train outside the normal schedule which very few people would use for the journey from Newton Abbot to Exeter
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Old November 19th, 2019, 09:46 AM   #382
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A metro service is meant to encourage rail travel but this timetable does the opposite.

Another oddity is the early Sunday Exmouth trains arrive at Exeter minutes after the Barnstaple train has left.
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Old November 19th, 2019, 11:34 AM   #383
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A metro service is meant to encourage rail travel but this timetable does the opposite.

Another oddity is the early Sunday Exmouth trains arrive at Exeter minutes after the Barnstaple train has left.
I think as a metro it works ok. Its not perfect but this is the first year of the timetable incorporating a half hourly Torbay service. Hopefully any shortcomings will be noted and future timetables altered accordingly. At the end of the day the metro has to function around the bottleneck at Exeter St David's and a line between Exeter St David's and Newton Abbot at full capacity. Its no doubt a challenge to get all services in the most efficient pattern with the infrastructure available. The positive is Exeter has an expansive suburban railway network that a lot of larger city's in the UK can only wish for.
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Old November 19th, 2019, 12:39 PM   #384
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A metro service is meant to encourage rail travel but this timetable does the opposite.
How do you work that out? There are departures (roughly) every half an hour all day until 8pm from Paignton to Exeter and vice versa Monday to Saturday, with extra trains here and there. It is a shame they can't be exactly clockface departures, but compromises have to be made because of the infrastructure. It's as good as it can get without spending big money
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Old November 19th, 2019, 06:58 PM   #385
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I do think that this is down to infrastructure limitations rather than just poor timetabling. The lack of passing points between Exeter and Newton doesn't help and nor does the lack of platform space at Newton Abbot. Exeter St Davids has always been a bottleneck and always will be, especially without the middle line in place between platforms 1 and 3. There needs to a cross over from the down Waterloo line at St Davids (Platform 3) and the Up Waterloo (Platform 1). The current pointwork allows a train on the Down Waterloo to switch to Platform 1. This means that train coming down the bank can go into either platforms 1 or 3. However, a train in platform 3 wishing to go up the bank can only do so by running wrong line until central where it can swtich over just before St James' Park. Adding an aditional crossover would solve this and would add signifiacant flexibility to what is a rather bus station. Adding this crossover would allow a potential half hourly London Waterloo - Exeter service as well by allowing departing SWR services to use P3 without running wrong line.
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Old November 19th, 2019, 08:28 PM   #386
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Half hour service from Paignton (which it is already) is at the limit of what can be described as Metro. St Thomas half hourly reducing to hourly is (as it does now) not metro. This station with lifts has the potential to improve the area. How is Marsh Barton going to fit in.

The mistake made in this timetable is trying to extend the current hourly Paignton Exmouth to half hourly with a train that does not call at all stations and has to be held somewhere to get a path down to Exmouth. This train should have been the one reversed at Exmouth junction siding leaving the Barnstaple train to go down to Exmouth.
Of course the 158 is not suitable for Exmouth so maybe we will have to wait for the 168 turbos.

Another problem that will arise is the 158's detraining at unstaffed St James Pk to go down to reverse at the siding. Is a guard going to leave a child alone at this station. It will happen and detraining, as now, will take place at Central.
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Old November 19th, 2019, 10:49 PM   #387
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Half hour service from Paignton (which it is already) is at the limit of what can be described as Metro. St Thomas half hourly reducing to hourly is (as it does now) not metro. This station with lifts has the potential to improve the area. How is Marsh Barton going to fit in.

The mistake made in this timetable is trying to extend the current hourly Paignton Exmouth to half hourly with a train that does not call at all stations and has to be held somewhere to get a path down to Exmouth. This train should have been the one reversed at Exmouth junction siding leaving the Barnstaple train to go down to Exmouth.
Of course the 158 is not suitable for Exmouth so maybe we will have to wait for the 168 turbos.

Another problem that will arise is the 158's detraining at unstaffed St James Pk to go down to reverse at the siding. Is a guard going to leave a child alone at this station. It will happen and detraining, as now, will take place at Central.
I know it is not pheasible and nor has it even been suggested by GWR, NR or ECC; but I fell as though Marsh Barton station should have passing loops.
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Old November 19th, 2019, 11:16 PM   #388
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The mistake made in this timetable is trying to extend the current hourly Paignton Exmouth to half hourly with a train that does not call at all stations and has to be held somewhere to get a path down to Exmouth. This train should have been the one reversed at Exmouth junction siding leaving the Barnstaple train to go down to Exmouth.
Of course the 158 is not suitable for Exmouth so maybe we will have to wait for the 168 turbos.
That's a really good point. This is the way it should be. The Barnstaple service needs to extend to Exmouth. Lots of folk on that service want to get to work at Digby aswell.
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Old November 20th, 2019, 12:33 AM   #389
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That's a really good point. This is the way it should be. The Barnstaple service needs to extend to Exmouth. Lots of folk on that service want to get to work at Digby aswell.
The Barnstaple service always used to run on to Exmouth didn't it? What was the reason for stopping it?
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Old November 20th, 2019, 09:08 AM   #390
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The Barnstaple service always used to run on to Exmouth didn't it? What was the reason for stopping it?
They wanted to give Paignton a half hour service to Exeter Central without changing and joining with the already half hour service from Exmouth seemed the easiest way but they have just taken the problems of the old timetable into the new.

Barnstaple was intended to have 158's and because of the limited doorways they are not conducive to a Metro service where people are getting on and off at the same time. On the Barnstaple line they all tend to get on in the morning and off in the evenings, Crediton might be the exception.

It also might be why 168 turbos have been route tested to Barnstaple at least twice recently.
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Old November 20th, 2019, 06:00 PM   #391
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Don't you mean Class 165/166 Turbos? Also, I wonder if a direct service to Digby from Exeter St Davids could ever be justified. This would either require a passing loop at Digby, or at least a turn back siding.
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Old November 20th, 2019, 06:18 PM   #392
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Sorry I did mean 165/166
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Old November 20th, 2019, 06:26 PM   #393
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In many ways doubling the line to Digby would potentially solve a lot of question marks on the Devon Metro; the half-hourly Paignton/Okehampton/the potential Taunton service.
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Old November 20th, 2019, 08:55 PM   #394
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In many ways doubling the line to Digby would potentially solve a lot of question marks on the Devon Metro; the half-hourly Paignton/Okehampton/the potential Taunton service.
Redoubling, or at least preparation for redoubling, will happen one day. How far it will go, I don't know. I am certain that this will occur during next August's closure. Redoubling to Digby would allow a better service and allow late running services to try to make up time. It will be interesting to see what does happen next August as if they do reintroduce the double track junction, then they will need to do somthing with Polsloe bridge. Wonder when Hill Barton station will happen, if ever. I presume it will be after Marsh Barton station.
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Old November 21st, 2019, 12:14 PM   #395
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Information about the track closure at Exmouth Junction next year is strangely scarce. There is little or no information other than they are replacing the junction. Even the Avocet Rail Users Group has no information about it.
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Old November 21st, 2019, 06:44 PM   #396
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Avocet Rail Users Group will find out nearer the time. It is a mystery but I will try to take regular photo's of the work and post them here. It will be interesting to see what information is released between now and then on what is happening. When the time comes you will of course get the announcement from GWR and SWR about the cancelled services and maybe then they will mention in. Also, I am fairly sure that there is Japanese Knotweed at polsloe bridge.
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Old November 21st, 2019, 09:04 PM   #397
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I'm assuming the Exmouth Junction work is just a like-for-like replacement - no actual upgrade.

If it was a major upgrade (ie - double the tracks) there would be more info out by now, and I assume things like work packages released for construction companies to bid for and it'll be a line item is Network Rail's budget.

So, I'm not expecting any big changes - just replacing the rails with shiny new ones.
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Old November 22nd, 2019, 01:36 AM   #398
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Yeah it might be an anti climax but I swear when this work was announced in parliament two years ago as part of a central government investment in the railways (there were a host of other improvements up and down the UK announced at the same time) that they said it was to 'increase capacity at Exmouth Junction'. A junction that accommodates a future option to duel the Exmouth line will do. Least they will be getting round to extending the platform at St James Park while the line is closed anyhow.

The closure is going to cause absolute havoc for folk living in Exmouth though. If you're fit and able I seriously think your best option for commuting to Exeter will be cycling. The A376 to Exmouth is going to be absolute carnage otherwise. I'm guessing they will reverse the Paignton and Barnstaple trains at Exeter Central. As for the South West Trains I wonder if they will at least run Waterloo to Axminster, or will they more likely just terminate at Yeovil Junction?
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Old November 22nd, 2019, 09:14 AM   #399
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The closure is going to cause absolute havoc for folk living in Exmouth though. If you're fit and able I seriously think your best option for commuting to Exeter will be cycling. The A376 to Exmouth is going to be absolute carnage otherwise. I'm guessing they will reverse the Paignton and Barnstaple trains at Exeter Central. As for the South West Trains I wonder if they will at least run Waterloo to Axminster, or will they more likely just terminate at Yeovil Junction?
Perhaps they will ferry them to Starcross???
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Old November 22nd, 2019, 04:33 PM   #400
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Presumably on the Waterloo service that will require a bus replacement service from the nearest suitable station to St D?
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