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Old November 6th, 2019, 09:25 PM   #2261
sleekpiano
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Originally Posted by Kenguy View Post
Remember the BRT section below the viaduct will be fenced off. So crossing the road will definitely be affected.
I really don't think it needs to be fenced or where you are getting that idea from. If you at Tz one, I don't see a fence. However, the kerbs separating the BRT lane may be raised so that ordinary traffic will not just enter the BRT lanes at will at any point. For pedestrian crossing, you can raise the road so that at that section (like a flat raised bump marked with zebra crossing) to allow people to cross the road without hopping over a raised kerb. That is just one way of making it friendly to pedestrian.

In my opinion if 30% of traffic is diverted to the expressway, it should be an oppornunity to make the current road apart from having BRT, a more pedestrian friendly boulevard i.e easy to cross the road, easy to catch a bus, easy to walk/cycle with cars moving at slower speed.
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Old November 6th, 2019, 10:39 PM   #2262
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Originally Posted by p_m View Post
Won't a raised Uhuru Highway between Haile Selassie & Kenyatta Avenue roundabouts be a security risk to the Parliament? ...OR it is just my evil Al Shabab like mind overthinking
Our biggest threat so far is those in parliament and not the people outside.Back to the topic.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 12:31 AM   #2263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleekpiano View Post
I really don't think it needs to be fenced or where you are getting that idea from. If you at Tz one, I don't see a fence. However, the kerbs separating the BRT lane may be raised so that ordinary traffic will not just enter the BRT lanes at will at any point. For pedestrian crossing, you can raise the road so that at that section (like a flat raised bump marked with zebra crossing) to allow people to cross the road without hopping over a raised kerb. That is just one way of making it friendly to pedestrian.

In my opinion if 30% of traffic is diverted to the expressway, it should be an oppornunity to make the current road apart from having BRT, a more pedestrian friendly boulevard i.e easy to cross the road, easy to catch a bus, easy to walk/cycle with cars moving at slower speed.
Just take a closer look at the latest renders. The one with a BRT underneath the viaduct.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 10:29 AM   #2264
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Just take a closer look at the latest renders. The one with a BRT underneath the viaduct.
Seen it. It will be interesting to know what solutions they have for pedestrian crossing. While a fence may not only prevent normal traffic accessing BRT lanes, it could also prevent jay walking or those random bodaboda guys who cross the road illegally. They could leave the fence open in places where many pedestrian need to cross by implementing traffic lights controlled zebra crossings.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 12:08 PM   #2265
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Originally Posted by sleekpiano View Post
Seen it. It will be interesting to know what solutions they have for pedestrian crossing. While a fence may not only prevent normal traffic accessing BRT lanes, it could also prevent jay walking or those random bodaboda guys who cross the road illegally. They could leave the fence open in places where many pedestrian need to cross by implementing traffic lights controlled zebra crossings.
I was thinking about those crossings from uhuru park/central park to the CBD. That BRT fence will effectively cut off pedestrian traffic to the parks and by extension to Upperhill.

It will effectively separate Upperhill and the CBD pedestrian ecosystem.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 03:07 PM   #2266
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I dont think they will fence of the whole stretch but even at Uhuru park, pedestrians mostly stick to crossing at round abouts and at the crossing next to parliament. Since this is a busy fast moving highway currently. Encouraging jay walking will unnecessarily slow down traffic below.

Hopefully aesthetic of the viaduct wont be too bad going across the best view of our CBD. Though some other countries are tearing down viaducts (much less than those building them) they tore down when their metros/light rails have matured or economy could handle the cost of a tunnel.
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Old November 7th, 2019, 05:44 PM   #2267
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I dont think they will fence of the whole stretch but even at Uhuru park, pedestrians mostly stick to crossing at round abouts and at the crossing next to parliament. Since this is a busy fast moving highway currently. Encouraging jay walking will unnecessarily slow down traffic below.

Hopefully aesthetic of the viaduct wont be too bad going across the best view of our CBD. Though some other countries are tearing down viaducts (much less than those building them) they tore down when their metros/light rails have matured or economy could handle the cost of a tunnel.
I'm still not entirely sure that an underpass or tunnel for the overpass stretch (built with cut and cover techniques) would be built for much more than the currently budgeted Kshs 60 billion given prudent budgetary planning... Prudent being the key word!!
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Old November 8th, 2019, 10:23 AM   #2268
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Old November 8th, 2019, 11:39 AM   #2269
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This is for debate on putting road underground or above ground. Its a debate that affects many cities everywhere. The report below was for mass transit systems but I believe it also affects expressways/freeways in particular the one that is planned for Mlolongo-James Gichuru.

Full report here. Summary findings and recommendations copy pasted below.


Underground or above ground?
Making the choice for urban mass transit systems

A report by the International Tunnelling Association (ITA). Prepared by
Working Group Number 13 (WG13). ‘Direct and indirect advantages of
underground structures’
ITA Working Group Number 13*
ITA-AITES, cyo EPFL, Bat GC, CH1015 Lausanne, Switzerland
Received 28 June 2003; received in revised form 16 July 2003; accepted 16 August 2003


Findings
1. The decision on whether to place an urban mass transit system underground or above ground is a complex planning, engineering, construction, urban design, economic and political decision.

2. In many cases—for example in the center areas of older cities—for functional, social, historic environmental and economic reasons there is no alternative to the choice of an underground alignment for new mass transit systems.

3. For many developing countries, the investment cost of a fixed guideway urban mass transit system is significant compared to the national or city economies. For urban mass transit systems developed or operated by private companies, return on investment is a critical issue.

4. For newer cities, cities without extensive historical districts, and cities with wide streets, elevated alignments can offer full grade separation typically at substantially lower initial construction cost than underground alignments, with certain exceptions usually related to right-of-way costs.

5. The initial capital cost is only a part ofthe total long-term financial commitment. Costs include capital (including financing), operating, maintenance,
security and rehabilitation.

6. Consideration of all costs—including capital, operating, maintenance, security and rehabilitation costs are necessary.

7. Consideration of all benefits—direct and indirect, short and long term—are necessary.

8. Long-term benefits such as increased economic activity and urban development potential are frequently not calculated in making the choice of whether to place an urban mass transit system underground or aboveground.

9. For the choice to be made well, both short and long term costs and short and long term benefits need to be objectively and comparatively considered.

10. Many aspects of the cost–benefit relationships are hard to quantify. Reference analyses and reports with the experience of other cities are very useful—particularly in the early stages of planning and design.

11. The problems of elevated alignments relate to availability of sufficient right-of-way, and the long-term environmental and real estate impact of elevated transit alignments. There are little quantitative data on which to base such decisions although there are many examples of older elevated railway alignments that have been removed due to public objections or
to reverse urban blight.

12. In areas outside the city center, at-grade and elevated alignments offer the ability to construct greater lengths of transit system at the same initial capital
cost or to lower the investment cost of a system of fixed size.

13. A cost ratio typically assumed for surface vs. elevated and vs. underground systems has been reported to be 1/3/6. Analysis of the data received from this questionnaire showed very large variations in cost ratios according to the particular circumstances of each city and existing infrastructure—which means that such ratios are not very useful in practice. The median ratios from the data received for this report were approximately 1/2/4.5.

14. Working Group discussions confirmed that (with some exceptions) the relative costs of under ground systems relative to surface and elevated systems are tending to narrow. This is particularly true in areas of high land value and as environmental restrictions on surface and elevated construction monetarize the differences in land and environmental impact. Better
technology and productivity for underground construction methods are also helping to narrow this cost differential.

15. Underground construction costs are tending to fall with time, as technologies and productivity improve. However, the costs of under ground transit systems
may not reflect this due to the fact that higher standards of amenity and safety are being built into new underground systems, e.g. large volume public spaces, air conditioning systems, better surface finishes, etc.

Recommendations:

1. The choice of under ground vs. aboveground for urban mass transit systems must be made by each city considering each area of the transit system, based on its own specific circumstances.

2. Few cities, which have had Metro systems in use for a substantial time regret the choice to build that system and, in general, to place it underground near
and adjacent to the city center.

3. The above statement, and the economicy cost environment which supports it, should be documented and publicized to assist decision-makers in making choices for new Metro systems.

4. Cities and transit agencies that undertake specific studies ofthe relative advantages and disadvantages of under ground transit alignments, especially those including long-term cost/benefit information, are encouraged to publish their analyses and findings for
the benefit of other decision makers around the world.

5. The critical decision between an underground and an above ground alignment in many cases is strongly, if not completely, influenced by the issue of perceived
high initial capital cost. This decision should, however, consider the benefits of increased long-term social and environmental improvements and beneficial economic development.

6. Representative decisions for specific mass transit systems should be documented and illustrated by reference to current and retrospective studies of typical
projects (including those older than 20 years), considering all costs and benefits, real and perceived. Estimates of changes in land value and perceptions in changes in environmental conditions close to alignments and, quantified estimates of all the benefits that have accrued to the region because of the particular project, would be of particular interest. Examples ofelevated vs. underground road alignments
would also be pertinent.
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Old November 8th, 2019, 06:24 PM   #2270
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I tottaly agree with this report, 'sleekpiano' ,and as far as i can tell this expressway fits under the criteria , as it checks every box ,land in Nairobi more so the CBD is diminishing and the value is immense, theres the historical Uhuru park which i believe is integral part of the city, and should be preserved at any cost, i think an underground transit will preserve the park ,also avoid demolishing and affecting businesses ,surrounding infrastructure ,wich also runs a cost in compensation one way or another even if they dont go with this root in future theyll be forced to the reality is that theres no more space for expansion along the expressway .
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Old November 8th, 2019, 08:14 PM   #2271
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I tottaly agree with this report, 'sleekpiano' ,and as far as i can tell this expressway fits under the criteria , as it checks every box ,land in Nairobi more so the CBD is diminishing and the value is immense, theres the historical Uhuru park which i believe is integral part of the city, and should be preserved at any cost, i think an underground transit will preserve the park ,also avoid demolishing and affecting businesses ,surrounding infrastructure ,wich also runs a cost in compensation one way or another even if they dont go with this root in future theyll be forced to the reality is that theres no more space for expansion along the expressway .
The ideal situation is putting especially the area around Uhuru park underground.

However this is private funded project and ROI is an important factor.

At the moment we don’t know if it was ever considered and what where the implication.

We can deduce that underground will be costlier but we don’t know by how much...

We also know underground will have to be put under Uhuru park. Putting it under current road will be very disruptive for traffic.

Other sections before or after Uhuru park putting anything underground would be disruptive to traffic hence a big factor too.
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Old November 8th, 2019, 08:28 PM   #2272
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KENHA made a presentation to The Architectural Association of Kenya and among the many things that came up is that they are not making public detailed info on the project because of confidentiality clause in the agreement

https://twitter.com/Arch_KE/status/1192077283944779776

And that BRT and light Rail will be built in subsequent phases and not concurrently with this project i guess those costs have not been factored in the 60 Billion cost figure

https://twitter.com/Arch_KE/status/1192066724033638401

follow the conversation on #AAKBaraza

The project manager was really tasked with explainations
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Old November 10th, 2019, 08:00 PM   #2273
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Originally Posted by DissidentX View Post
KENHA made a presentation to The Architectural Association of Kenya and among the many things that came up is that they are not making public detailed info on the project because of confidentiality clause in the agreement

https://twitter.com/Arch_KE/status/1192077283944779776

And that BRT and light Rail will be built in subsequent phases and not concurrently with this project i guess those costs have not been factored in the 60 Billion cost figure

https://twitter.com/Arch_KE/status/1192066724033638401

follow the conversation on #AAKBaraza

The project manager was really tasked with explainations
There is the freedom of information as enshrined in the constitution. I wonder what details are contained in the agreement that are so sensitive for that clause to be abused. Any lawyers in SSC?
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM   #2274
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hii maneno yote hakuna ata ka picha ka tractor kwa ground ndugu zangu?
I have seen chinese surveyors on the road complete with armed policement accompanying them....
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