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Old April 16th, 2019, 02:11 AM   #2021
evanb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicSA View Post
This is massive! Could easily double US tourist numbers to SA given the low base and if it is marketed well.
Ha? The US is already the third biggest market for South Africa behind the UK and Germany. StatsSA's most recent monthly report reported 24,193 US arrivals in South Africa in January 2019, of which 21,933 were by air. This flight will add 756 seats per week and count about 13.7% of the market.
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Old April 16th, 2019, 02:20 AM   #2022
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Ha? The US is already the third biggest market for South Africa behind the UK and Germany. StatsSA's most recent monthly report reported 24,193 US arrivals in South Africa in January 2019, of which 21,933 were by air. This flight will add 756 seats per week and count about 13.7% of the market.
Are those mainly tourists or business travelers? Surely a large portion of that is business travel to Johannesburg?
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Old April 16th, 2019, 02:26 AM   #2023
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Are those mainly tourists or business travelers? Surely a large portion of that is business travel to Johannesburg?
Business 553 (2.4%)
Holiday 23,124 (95.6%)
Study 507 (2.1%)
Medical treatment 9
Total 24,194
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Old April 16th, 2019, 08:20 AM   #2024
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Seems this looks like the schedule:

Newark (EWR) 8:30pm Dep - Cape Town (CPT) 6:00pm (+1) Arr (Wed, Fri, Sun)
Cape Town (CPT) 8:50pm Dep- Newark (EWR) 5:45am (+1) Arri (Mon, Thu, Sat)
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Old April 16th, 2019, 12:09 PM   #2025
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Is this seasonal or year round?

Quote:
Seems this looks like the schedule:

Newark (EWR) 8:30pm Dep - Cape Town (CPT) 6:00pm (+1) Arr (Wed, Fri, Sun)
Cape Town (CPT) 8:50pm Dep- Newark (EWR) 5:45am (+1) Arri (Mon, Thu, Sat)
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Old April 16th, 2019, 12:18 PM   #2026
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Is this seasonal or year round?
seasonal for now (until March). They will see how performance goes before deciding to keep it seasonal or year round.
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Old April 16th, 2019, 02:11 PM   #2027
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seasonal for now (until March). They will sea how performance goes before deciding to keep it seasonal or year round.
Seasonal indefinitely. They don't have the availability of B787-9 year-round at this stage. The B787-9 for this route comes from seasonal downgrades elsewhere on the network.

There is no slack in United's long haul fleet during the North American summer until they complete new installation of new business class seats on B763, B764, B77E, B788 and B789. This was due to be complete in 2020, but unlikely to be complete before end of 2021 or maybe even 2022.
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Old April 16th, 2019, 04:51 PM   #2028
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EvanB, wanted to know if this came as a complete surprise to you? I was shocked by the routing and the carrier myself, but you're more tied into the industry than I am. You stated about a month ago in the Aviation thread that you thought US legacy carriers were unlikely to serve CPT soon, that they all preferred routing through Europe through their partners, and that if one would ever enter the market soon, it would be Delta, as a presence in JNB is almost a prerequisite for entering CPT from a business model point of view.

What do you think happened in United's case here?
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Old April 16th, 2019, 05:15 PM   #2029
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EvanB, wanted to know if this came as a complete surprise to you? I was shocked by the routing and the carrier myself, but you're more tied into the industry than I am. You stated about a month ago in the Aviation thread that you thought US legacy carriers were unlikely to serve CPT soon, that they all preferred routing through Europe through their partners, and that if one would ever enter the market soon, it would be Delta, as a presence in JNB is almost a prerequisite for entering CPT from a business model point of view.

What do you think happened in United's case here?
Haha, you have a good memory

Copying my post from another thread from March (below) you'll notice that UA was conspicuously missing from my comment (only commented on AA, DL and SA). It was not a secret at the time that Wesgro had been been in discussions with AA, DL and UA regarding non-stop flights to CPT.

UA were the most interested but they had been looking at both JNB and CPT. Concerns about JNB were that they didn't have the aircraft available to fly daily and year-round. They were also concerned about overlap with SA's JFK-JNB although the connecting traffic would be vastly different. Finally, aircraft availability and EWR departure time would have mean a 6:30pm arrival into JNB which would have removed much of the connecting opportunities. Once they were reliant on O&D on the South African end JNB became less favorable. Also, because of their codeshare with SA on JNB-JFK and JNB-IAD they can still offer their customers JNB/CPT open-jaws.

UA flying to CPT and bypassing JNB makes sense for them at the moment but I'd still consider it the exception rather than the rule.

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The question is who might be missing out on a direct route to CPT?
* Keep in mind that not a single legacy carrier operates exclusively to CPT. AF, BA, CX, EK, ET, KL, LH, QR, SQ and TK only came to CPT once they had very well established daily services to JNB. WK and OS don't fly to JNB, but these are just extensions of LH. The only unique carriers are DE and MT which are in a different market.
* I cannot see AA entering CPT until they have a well established operation to JNB, just like all the other legacy carriers have done.
* SA are very JNB centric and in order to add a CPT flight to North America they would cannibalize yields on their JNB flights. They're also not in any position to start new routes right now.
* DL are very established in South Africa and could easily add 3x/4x weekly seasonal service to CPT. I suspect they already would have if they thought the market where there. One of the challenges for them may have been the right aircraft. They would likely only start the route if they could do it non-stop from ATL and the only aircraft they have that could make it is the B777-200LR. However, it might be too much aircraft and too expensive to fly on the route relative to the yield they could achieve.
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Old April 17th, 2019, 04:51 AM   #2030
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How the new flight between CT & US will boost the local economy

The Western Cape Tourism, Trade and Investment Promotion Agency (Wesgro) says the benefits of a new non-stop flight between Cape Town and the US extend beyond tourism.

United Airlines has announced it intends launching a new direct route to the Mother City from Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey, New York, in December.

Wesgro's Tim Harris said this would position Cape Town as an investment hub and allow for high-value air freight.

“This flight will bring an additional 24,000 passengers to the market each year with R283 million impact on direct tourism spend, increasing the province’s output by more than R400 million,” he said.

https://ewn.co.za/2019/04/16/how-the...-local-economy
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Old April 17th, 2019, 04:52 AM   #2031
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Old April 17th, 2019, 03:02 PM   #2032
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Out of interest, how does this rank in terms of longest non stop route ?
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Old April 17th, 2019, 05:05 PM   #2033
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I think it is in the top 20, but with new routes between SE Asia and the US, and between Australia and the UK, as well as NZ to the Middle-East, SA is no longer one of the few super long-haul destinations.
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Old April 17th, 2019, 08:41 PM   #2034
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Out of interest, how does this rank in terms of longest non stop route ?
Just goes to show how ultra long haul flights have come on in the last few years.

JNB-ATL is 13,581 km (10th longest)
JNB-JFK is 12,824 km (30th longest)
CPT-EWR will be only 12,580km

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_flights

It'll only be UA's 5th longest route!
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Old April 18th, 2019, 04:41 PM   #2035
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So short.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 04:51 PM   #2036
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So short.
I'm bemused by the progress in ULH flights ... I remember taking the IAD-JNB, ATL-JNB and JFK-JNB flights a decade ago when they were all top 10 and ATL-JNB was #1. Now ATL-JNB barely sneaks in the top 10 and JFK-JNB barely sneaks in the top 30!

How times have changed. All of a sudden 14 hours isn't so long anymore
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Old April 19th, 2019, 03:16 AM   #2037
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United Airlines Nonstop Flights To Cape Town Are Coming Soon


United Airlines is offering nonstop flights to Cape Town starting December 15, 2019. This is a seasonal route operating through March 2020. Pending government approval, tickets will go on sale in May. The flights will operate on the new 787-9 Dreamliner fleet from Newark.

Although United isn't the first airline to offer nonstop service from the United States to Cape Town, it will be the only airline at this moment. It goes without saying that this is one of the longest routes one can fly. There are plenty of frequent flier miles that can be racked up from this one trip alone.

United's planned flight schedule is departing Newark at 8:30 pm on Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday. This flight arrives in Cape Town at 6:00 pm on the next calendar day.


Return flights depart Cape Town at 8:50 pm on Mondays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. They arrive in Newark at 5:45 am on the next calendar day.

Once again, seasonal nonstop service begins December 15, 2019, and operates through March 2020. This new route still requires final government approval. Once approved, United anticipates selling the initial ticket in May 2019.

United plans on using their new 787-9 Dreamliner fleet for their nonstop flights to Cape Town. This fleet already serves several long-haul routes including Houston to Sydney and San Francisco to Singapore.

It initially looks like the Cape Town flights will have 48 Polaris Class seats, 88 Economy Plus, and 116 Economy seats. A SeatGuru seat map indicates the Polaris seats will have the current 2-2-2 configuration. However, a redesigned 787-9 fleet will begin rolling out in late 2019. Once tickets go on sale, browsing future dates can mean flying on the newly designed fleet which will provide a better experience for Polaris and Economy Plus passengers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffwh.../#3bf784011b17
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Old May 2nd, 2019, 03:22 AM   #2038
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United Airlines reveals what it will cost to fly from Cape Town to the Big Apple

Tickets have gone on sale for United Airlines' new direct flights between Cape Town and New York.

The US airline's website shows that the lowest price for a return flight when the three-times-a-week service starts on December 15 will be $914 (about R13,052).

The non-stop 12,600km flight across the Atlantic Ocean will take at least 14.5 hours, according to the website.



United said the flight would decrease current travel time by at least four hours. Its base at Newark Liberty International Airport, 14km from Manhattan, is its third largest after Chicago and Houston.

"Our new service between New York and Cape Town will enable our business and leisure customers to choose a more convenient and seamless way to travel between the US and SA," said Jake Cefolia, United's head of sales.

"We look forward to offering our customers easier access to SA's growing tourism industry and enabling business opportunities between the US and the Western Cape's technology sector."

United will operate the new flights with a Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner featuring 48 seats in business class and 204 in economy categories. Business class return flights will cost at least $2,000 (around R29,000).

Beverley Schäfer, the Western Cape MEC for economic opportunities, said the new flights would be a significant boost for tourism as well as the economy.

"The Western Cape is a global hub for technology and finance and United Airlines will enable new economic opportunities for Cape Town and New York," Schäfer said.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/sou...the-big-apple/
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Old May 2nd, 2019, 03:12 PM   #2039
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Are they sure about this pricing?

Ex EWR, lowest business class (P class) is $3,814, lowest economy class (S class, they're limiting ticketing in two cheaper classes, L and T from ex EWR passengers at the moment) is $1,297. All these are return. Just for comparison, full fare J class ex EWR will set you back $15,535 return! Full fare Y will set you back $5,867.

Ex CPT, lowest business class (Z class, the cheaper P is available but not ticketable ex CPT at the moment) is $3,164 while the lowest economy (available in L class unlike ex EWR fares) is $677. All these are return.

They're offering surprisingly competitive fares at the moment although there is some limited capacity in these fare classes.
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Old May 4th, 2019, 01:13 PM   #2040
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I wonder how viable this route will be. When delta last serves cpt was that seasonal too?
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