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Old September 12th, 2015, 12:27 PM   #81
.Adam
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I'm very impressed with this development - shame Stratford couldn't have a few more of these in place of the plastic towers.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 03:52 PM   #82
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Quote:
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I'm very impressed with this development - shame Stratford couldn't have a few more of these in place of the plastic towers.
You have to give the developer a bit of credit, Berkley Homes have constantly used top end architects and build high quality schemes. Its strange that they have so much U/C in London yet nothing in Stratford.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 05:33 PM   #83
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Its strange that they have so much U/C in London yet nothing in Stratford.
Berkley Homes only build in prestigious locations.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 11:52 AM   #84
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Berkley Homes only build in prestigious locations.
So they'll miss the boat.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 01:58 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Berkley Homes only build in prestigious locations.
As to Berkley, they are meticulously avoiding the name Woolwich in all of their advertizing. It's all about "living in style in Royal Arsenal Riverside in the Royal Borough of Greenwich", with "shopping and dining in nearby Blackheath Village"... For many people, Woolwich is a bad name. Have a look at the Woolwich bashing in this forum just a few years ago. One guy walked from Thamesmead to the Thames Barrier and portrayed the area as a rundown ghost town. Another one was criticized for buying a riverview flat in Woolwich for 140k...

Woolwich has come a long way and things are bound to look up further. According to this article, Woolwich house prices will rise more than elsewhere because of Crossrail. I noticed some of the luxury flats at Waterfront I and II are selling for well over a million.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 02:32 AM   #86
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The approved plans for Armourers Court - next to the Crossrail / Cannon Square construction site - were posted here by SE9 a while ago. According to this news flash, Crossrail are "currently looking for a develop partner".

I thought the photo montage in that article was very convincing. Here it is (I've cropped it a bit):


(Source: Crossrail)

Armourers Court, the red brick buildings at the bottom, has been photoshopped into an aerial view of the Arsenal from last winter. I'm counting 25 floors in the bottom right tower; would that be 80 m? Don't think any of the projected Waterfront towers will top that. The plan is to fill in all the vacant lots in the top left section of the picture with residential towers. At least five will have more than 20 floors.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #87
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As to Berkley, they are meticulously avoiding the name Woolwich in all of their advertizing. It's all about "living in style in Royal Arsenal Riverside in the Royal Borough of Greenwich", with "shopping and dining in nearby Blackheath Village"... For many people, Woolwich is a bad name. Have a look at the Woolwich bashing in this forum just a few years ago. One guy walked from Thamesmead to the Thames Barrier and portrayed the area as a rundown ghost town. Another one was criticized for buying a riverview flat in Woolwich for 140k...

Woolwich has come a long way and things are bound to look up further. According to this article, Woolwich house prices will rise more than elsewhere because of Crossrail. I noticed some of the luxury flats at Waterfront I and II are selling for well over a million.
There are still 140k flats in some of the blocks of Woolwich - the town is always supposed to be the next big thing and its been said for years now eg when the DLR arrived. Crossrail though is on a different scale, but some of the claims are a bit excessive. There's many flats in West Thamesmead / Woolwich that are still at 75% of the level they sold for 5-10 years ago which is rare in London. Mass fraud didn't help - Panorama etc covered this. That cityam is a bit of a puff piece - a more credible and thorough survey was carried out by savills which showed different results I believe, so far at least.

Woolwich has undoubtedly improved but still a hell of a long way from what it was until the '80s/90s when the rot really kicked in and it went off a cliff. A lot needs doing. It's not all bad of course - the Arsenal site is generally very good and more amenities are arriving.

Armorers should be about the same height as Berkeley's Crossrail towers beside. About 20 towers will be in Woolwich in the next 10 years - possibly more. None are that tall though so I hope a wall effect doesn't arise.

One thing that's frustrating for the area is that TfL sold land above and around the DLR station in 2008 to Oakmayne. They've sat on it and landbanked for 7 years. Let's hope the same doesn't happen with land above Crossrail at Armorers Court.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 02:11 AM   #88
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That cityam is a bit of a puff piece - a more credible and thorough survey was carried out by savills which showed different results I believe, so far at least.
It is a crappy article but the JLL tool that they have linked to is quite fun. Click on the Station by Station tab and select Woolwich from the menu. Then compare that with eg Abbey Wood (" little opportunity for new development" and "there is no real town centre or sense of place"). Interesting to read why the real estate guys have the hots for Woolwich. Where can I find the Savills survey?

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Woolwich has undoubtedly improved but still a hell of a long way from what it was until the '80s/90s when the rot really kicked in and it went off a cliff.
I've been reading up on Woolwich history a bit lately. It is amazing how the town could go downhill so quickly. In the 1950s and 60s this was the place where half of South East London came to work, shop and see movies. The one positive thing is that the town centre is still reasonably intact. The Arsenal will probably always remain an island but the regeneration of the town centre will bring Woolwich back to where it once was.

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About 20 towers will be in Woolwich in the next 10 years - possibly more. None are that tall though so I hope a wall effect doesn't arise.
I live halfway up Shooter's Hill and I am prepared to see less of the Thames in the future
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Old September 17th, 2015, 04:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleon View Post
It is a crappy article but the JLL tool that they have linked to is quite fun. Click on the Station by Station tab and select Woolwich from the menu. Then compare that with eg Abbey Wood (" little opportunity for new development" and "there is no real town centre or sense of place"). Interesting to read why the real estate guys have the hots for Woolwich. Where can I find the Savills survey?


I've been reading up on Woolwich history a bit lately. It is amazing how the town could go downhill so quickly. In the 1950s and 60s this was the place where half of South East London came to work, shop and see movies. The one positive thing is that the town centre is still reasonably intact. The Arsenal will probably always remain an island but the regeneration of the town centre will bring Woolwich back to where it once was.


I live halfway up Shooter's Hill and I am prepared to see less of the Thames in the future
I know both areas very well and that comment from JLL about Abbey Wood is completely wrong - "little opportunity for new development". There's 3k homes planned within close proximity to Abbey Wood! Scope for quite a few more too.

And there is a town centre - right beside the station. Ok it's not huge, but has about 30 shops. And on the other side of the station a new High Street is planned as part of the 3k new homes. JLL don't seem to have much credibility missing out things like that.

Woolwich fell so quickly for a range of reasons. Whilst hit hard by closures of areas like the Arsenal and big factories, such large de-industrialisation wasn't unique. Unfortunately a very poor council continued to do lasting damage. It's still very parochial in many ways, not even looking what happens elsewhere in London to improve areas. Most improvements have been enforced from the outside eg new squares and the Arsenal.

I don't think the Arsenal will stay an island. Over the road there will be comprehensive rebuilding as part of the Spray Street masterplan.

I've just googled quickly for the report and there's so many it could be it would take time to go through each. I did read it cover to cover though and know its results were very different to many others from estate agents, which did the usual of puffing everything up.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 09:23 PM   #90
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my second ever visit to Woolwich today, intriguing to (re)read the above in light of my impressions.


Woolwich Arsenal Riverside u/c by stevekeiretsu, on Flickr
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 02:33 AM   #91
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A few more photos of the Waterfront and Crossrail & Cannon Square developments at Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, taken earlier this week.


Duke of Wellington Avenue with Royal Carriage Mews. The tower cranes are part of the Waterfront I & II construction site


The Waterfront construction site near the Thames


An unusual view of the Cannon Square development from the small park at Royal Arsenal Waterfront


View from the northwest (Major Draper Street)


The two lower blocks next to the Crossrail station building


The Cannon Square development along Plumstead Road


This construction site is east of the Cannon Square site, also along Plumstead Road, where Crossrail has proposed some residential towers. Not sure what's happening here


Distant view from Plumstead Road. The wall was built in the 18th/19th century by convicts that were housed in hulks


Another unusual view from Masons Hill (the car park behind Wilco). The Sikh temple on the right is a rather amazing building
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 09:06 PM   #92
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I hesitated about posting this picture, taken from the airplane last Wednesday on my way home to Amsterdam. The window was scratched, the engine was in the way and the sun was in my face. But it does show more than other pictures the mass of the Cannon Square development and the way it gradually rises up from the Arsenal. I think Berkeley's architects did a decent job here. The picture also nicely illustrates two of Woolwich' main assets: the river and the hill. The third asset, the historic town centre, is hidden behind the newer buildings.

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Old October 14th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #93
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Berkeley Homes has started selling Pavilion Square, as far as I'm aware their last project in the historic section of the Arsenal. The two pavillions that were once part of the Royal Laboratories have been renovated and are now being surrounded by some bland but not terribly ugly brick buildings. Flats are selling for £ 357-600K.

Nearby, Waterfront I and II are going up, with prices up to £ 1,75 million. This may be nothing unusual in other parts of London, in Woolwich this is unheard of. At Cannon Square, near the Crossrail station, every apartment except for one has sold.

As I am new to this area, I am discovering things that others may already know. I was appalled by this scheme at Mast Pond Wharf in the Dockyard area, not too far from the Arsenal. Note: this is not Mast Quay, where two additional towers are planned next to a development from the early 2000s. Mast Pond Wharf is further west and in the middle of Woolwich Dockyard, an area where very little remains of a great maritime past. This monstrum is planned on the narrow strip between two surviving docks, both listed. The project is surrounded by 1970s blocks of flats and a number of rather humble terraces from the 1990s. Not only is this the ugliest building design that I have seen in a long time (the cladding is actually very reminiscent of the Tesco/Carbuncle Cup building), the developers' legal assistants also managed last year to remove a requirement to include affordable homes in the scheme. I hope this never gets built!



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Old October 16th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #94
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Blimey, so much wasted land in that second photo, what's the chances that most of that green space goes constantly unused.
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Old October 20th, 2015, 01:06 PM   #95
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Blimey, so much wasted land in that second photo, what's the chances that most of that green space goes constantly unused.
That is one of my biggest issues with a lot of the post-war developments across the UK: so much wasted land that isn’t doing anything. You get lots of grass, the odd tree, but nobody uses it. It also isn’t like London is short on open public spaces, so you do wonder how many more units could be incorporated onto such sites and that is before increasing height.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #96
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Some updates of the Crossrail, Cannon Square and Waterfront construction sites at Royal Arsenal Riverside. Firstly, two views of the Cannon Square development, one from Beresford Square in the town centre, the other one from Mason's Hill, with a fabulous Sikh gurdwara in the foreground:





The first buyers have now moved into the Cannon Square development. One of the taller towers is slowly emerging from its netting, the other one has not quite reached its full height. Views are from the north:



Crossrail is building something (a ventilation shaft?) at the east end of the station box:



Waterfront I & II are rising up from the park:







I posted a few more pics of Royal Arsenal in this thread.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 07:54 PM   #97
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A few passing mobile phone shots:


Royal Arsenal Riverside - Woolwich, London by SE9, on Flickr


Royal Arsenal Riverside - Woolwich, London by SE9, on Flickr


Royal Arsenal Riverside - Woolwich, London by SE9, on Flickr


Royal Arsenal Riverside - Woolwich, London by SE9, on Flickr
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Old November 4th, 2015, 10:05 PM   #98
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Went here last weekend. Studio for 370k and one bed for 430k. What are they thinking? Sales office seems to be quite desparate to sell something as they gave me all goodies they possible can. Development however is really nice.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 11:00 PM   #99
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Sanity has gotta get a grip sometime... hasn't it?

If I had 400k burning a hole in my back pocket there is no way I'd be moving to Woolwich and that is not snobery because the Royal Borough is my patch...
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Old November 5th, 2015, 01:48 AM   #100
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Went here last weekend. Studio for 370k and one bed for 430k. What are they thinking?
Don't think there will be any more bargains at the Royal Arsenal. Over the years Berkeley Homes has invested a huge amount of money there when very few people believed in it, they had to deal with difficult industrial heritage and last but not least, they paid for the station box when Crossrail wanted to pull out. So now the time has come to cash in and I can't blame them. All those towers going up by the riverside will be luxury developments. For cheaper places you will have to cross the A206. I'm pretty sure the town centre will be the next hotspot. Here are 3 suggestions (no commercial interest):

1. The former RACS department store. Not so cheap either but then you live in a listed art deco building.



2. The Bathway Quarter, a well-preserved historic quarter with several public buildings being converted into apartments right now. Here the Old Police Station.



3. The Love Lane development, phase 2. Okay, the Tesco building won the 2014 Carbuncle Cup, so hopefully phase 2 will look a bit friendlier. The location between the town centre and Woolwich Common is perfect though.

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