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Old August 9th, 2005, 10:17 PM   #1
Rocky Mountain Shawn
 
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Salt Lake City - Not just for religious whackos anymore!

I hate hometown boosterism. But, since this forum is for the West Coast and the Interior West, I thought I'd open up a thread for probably the most interior of Interior West cities, Salt Lake City. I think we can all agree that in terms of size and density, SLC is way behind the coastal cities but, hey, you try building Manhattan in the Great Basin (without gambling - nod to Vegas) and see what you can do . Anyway, the reason I live here is because I got a good, inexpensive education at the University of Utah, love to ski, and it's a pretty easy city to live in due to low housing costs, cheap transportation, and a Delta hub at the airport that allows you to be anywhere in North America within a few hours. I'm not Mormon, and the fact that the Utah State Legislature is 90% Mormon can be frustrating (more abortion bills, anyone?), but where I live (Salt Lake City proper), Mormons are the vast minority and there is a respectable nightlife for a city of this size. Anyway, 'nuff talk, more watch.

Downtown from the West


Downtown from Main St. Plaza


A satellite photo that gives you some idea of the topography of SLC and the Wasatch Front


The obligatory pic of Temple Square Downtown.


Gateway pedestrian mall on the West side of Downtown.


The University of Utah campus. This is about 2 miles east of Downtown.


Main Street, Downtown


Alta Ski Area, one of the 7 major ski resorts that are abou 30 mins. from Downtown SLC


Anyway, that's just a quick walkabout of Salt Lake. Hope you found it illuminating.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 10:36 PM   #2
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Whackos?
Well, Im a Mormon and I find your title offensive and rude.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:03 AM   #3
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Salt Lake City has great geography - the mountains are very close to the city and are scenic mood elevators. Downtown never died and it's marvelous to see real-world retail in a western city. As far as the Mormon influence goes, the worst aspect, imo, is the greater difficulty in getting a drink. It's not impossible, just harder. The Gateway project is nice, but like all those other "lifestyle" New Urbanist projects, seems artificial and overplanned. The suburbs are horrendous and dispiriting. Apparently Utah objects to sign ordinances too, and the interstate from Provo to Ogden is horrifying.

I doubt I could live in a place where the dominant influences are so overwhelmingly reactionary. True, SLC is a liberal oasis, but you're always aware how the pod people are close by, taking notes, and planning some comeuppance for the secular heathens.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:46 AM   #4
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I lived in Orem, Utah for 6 months in June to Dec, 2000. It was nice place, but not for me. I cannot answer why because it could be offensive to some of you.

There is about 1.3 million people living from Odgen to Provo/Orem in the metro area of 80 miles long. Salt Lake City only has 181,000 people living there, and the metro is 1.3 million. That is impressive amount of people in the metro with a city with only under 200,000.

I'm truly happy where I am now, Seattle!
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:56 AM   #5
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Salt Lake City...I've been there once, won't go again. Im not sure what it was about the city or even the state for that matter, but I felt out of place there. It could have been the religion, climate or anything else, I just didn't like it.

One thing I was impressed by was the cleanliness. I found maybe one piece of trash on the sidewalks. It was kinda creepy, yet efficent and expected. Nice city for some people, just not for me.

Good job trying to represent the Interior west though, we don't get much of that here.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:24 AM   #6
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Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:06 AM   #7
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I think people have the right to whatever religion they please, however the people going from home to home all too much in Salt Lake trained to sell religion like a sewing machine not even being able to answer basic questions, yeah thats pretty whacko.

Great Salt Lake pictures by the way! I love Salt Lake.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:52 AM   #8
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^The king has to go to Jehovahs Witnesses though....
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Old August 10th, 2005, 08:07 AM   #9
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My friend lived in Layton and I have been to SLC many times. It is a pretty huge area really. Very long versus wide. I like it. It is a clean metropolitan area and does have some beautiful geography surrounding it.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 09:55 AM   #10
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I was borne in SLC and I lived there untill about 14. Its a great City for those how like the out doors. I heard from most of my family that the city life is getting better to. Its not for me (I LOVE BEER). I got to live in NYC for a few years and even my home town of Seattle is too small (its getting good though) All I have to say to people is that im not LDS but I have more then enough respect for them and for those people who dont like what they do to SLC or for SLC need to get out. I thought this was about architecture. Anybody know of any cool projects happening down there?

!!!!!!!! GO JAZZ !!!!!!!!!!!

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Old August 10th, 2005, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah.
That crap about Cain and Abel is from the the king James Bible. That would be the one that all christians use not just mormons so Utah is the least of your worries if you are avoiding religious racism
Check out the freek from TX thats in the White House

Last edited by Dancer; August 10th, 2005 at 10:25 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 10:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancer
That crap about Cain and Abel is from the the king James Bible. That would be the one that all christians use not just mormons so Utah is the least of your worries if you are avoiding religious racism
Check out the freek from TX thats in the White House
Learn how to spell freak; then come and talk to me. No, actually I'll respond anyways. Although I am far from being an expert on the King James Bible, I am quite sure it doesn't speak of "black people" as being the cursed seed of Cain. I do realize the bible tells the story of Cain and Abel, but I haven't ever heard any christian I know say some crazy shit about race like that; but hey, maybe it does I don't really care. Also, again I'm no expert, but I do know that Mormons use a different bible. Now, they may use your "regular" King James version, too; but I know for a fact they have a totally different bible that talks about prophets here in North America, and golden tablets or something like that. Like I said, I know a Morman guy who is originally from Utah; and we have had many discussions about a lot of topics regarding that religion. Don't be so defensive anyway, you said you weren't Mormon, and all I did was ask a question.

Last edited by Nic; August 10th, 2005 at 11:15 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:19 PM   #13
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Why dont you go directly to a Mormon Church and ask them what their beliefs are. I dont believe in debating religious doctrine on the internet.

I can say that we are taught values such as Charity, Love and Respect. We also believe that families are the basic unit of society and parents are responsible for teaching their children how to be good people. Not exactly a whacko concept-at least in my opinion. But if that's whacko then I glady accept that title.

What I do know is that Salt Lake City didnt even exist before the Mormons got there. They were forced out of their homes in NY, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri by govt officials and mobs who persecuted them relentlessly simply for what they believed in. Fathers and Sons were killed, Mothers and Daughters were raped. Its the reason the Mormons left the midwest.

So they arrived in a desolate and dusty bowl and they turned it into an organized, treelined city. There the Church was allowed to develop and grow without outside persecution.

The Church founded the city and remains the single most influential force there by far.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:13 PM   #14
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I don't know why it's considered wrong to point out obvious things, like the LDS church's longstanding prohibition of blacks from their priesthood (conveniently removed by Spencer Kimball in a 1973 "revelation"). It wasn't just blacks who bore the mark of Cain. Native Americans themselves are judged to be flawed (the Lehi). It stems from an elaborate mythology of tribes of Israel battling one another in ancient history and the cursed tribe somehow getting lost and relocating to North America. This fairy tale is a central precept of Mormon theology.

I assume all religions have weird dogmas and beliefs (the virgin birth, anyone?). In a sense, Mormonism is the 19th Century Scientology, attempting a religious answer to an anthropological question, namely, how did Indians come to North America if the Bible makes no mention of them? How LDS survives its rather humorous origins shows that people are more than willing to suspend their rational thought process if the social organization is supportive and friendly. Cafeteria Catholics know this all too well, to the point, even , of disregarding huge areas of church dogma.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:34 PM   #15
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Ok pardon me for not being on you level of intelligence. Im guessing you have never misspelled anything before

Your question about mormons being racists was more of a statment otherwise why would you ask this "question" in an architeciture forum when you could ask your expert friend. I did say that im not mormon but I have a lot of respect for them and it is sick misinterpretations of the bible like your dumb question that fuel religious groups like the KKK. Oh I guess you have never heard them since you have never heard of other christians that use the king james bible and are racists. The fact that mormons use a nother bible as well is not the subject unless you are claiming that there is racist stuff in there to. By the way did your friend tell you its called the Book of Mormon and FYI there is nothing in it about Cain and Abel.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
I don't know why it's considered wrong to point out obvious things, like the LDS church's longstanding prohibition of blacks from their priesthood (conveniently removed by Spencer Kimball in a 1973 "revelation").
Yes, the Church did that and then changed its stance. I would think that the Church would be lauded for becoming more inclusive.

Quote:
It wasn't just blacks who bore the mark of Cain. Native Americans themselves are judged to be flawed (the Lehi). It stems from an elaborate mythology of tribes of Israel battling one another in ancient history and the cursed tribe somehow getting lost and relocating to North America. This fairy tale is a central precept of Mormon theology.
Sorry if I choose to follow the convictions of my heart as opposed to your rantings. There's a promise at the End of The Book of Mormon...that if you read, ponder and pray about the book with real intent and a sincere heart, you will come to know of its truthfulness by the holy ghost and I believe the peace and warmth I felt when I prayed about it was just that. Either you believe it or you dont. I dont see the need to criticize those who dont agree with you when this is something that is totally subjective-not a very liberal and inclusive thing to do if you ask me. And certainly not very tolerant.

Quote:
How LDS survives its rather humorous origins shows that people are more than willing to suspend their rational thought process
Its called Faith. Pure and Simple. Christianity by its very nature requires that one suspend rational thought.

Its not easy being a person of color who is Mormon and a Liberal Democrat. I get a hard time from all sides, but I cant deny what I believe to be true. Everything else has to take a back seat.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 08:24 PM   #17
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And I thought the cities in the Bay Area had the best views in the country....
Wow...SLC looks awesome....It looks so clean and quiet and the views...man those views are to die for......
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Old August 10th, 2005, 09:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancer
Ok pardon me for not being on you level of intelligence. Im guessing you have never misspelled anything before

Your question about mormons being racists was more of a statment otherwise why would you ask this "question" in an architeciture forum when you could ask your expert friend. I did say that im not mormon but I have a lot of respect for them and it is sick misinterpretations of the bible like your dumb question that fuel religious groups like the KKK. Oh I guess you have never heard them since you have never heard of other christians that use the king james bible and are racists. The fact that mormons use a nother bible as well is not the subject unless you are claiming that there is racist stuff in there to. By the way did your friend tell you its called the Book of Mormon and FYI there is nothing in it about Cain and Abel.
I really don't understand your defensivness. I asked the question, because the Mormon religion is THE defining trait of Utah. You are the one who got hostile because I asked a legitimate question. I said some guy I knew told me those things; I didn't know if it was correct. And sorry, as I am not planning to become Mormon, I never thoroughly researched his claims. But, after seeing a thread on Utah, and assuming I would get a yes or no answer, and a simple explanation, I asked. But then YOU dancer, start saying how bush is some racist, like I and the state of Texas are responsible for some guy from Connecticut who moved here when he became an adult. And, then telling me my question whether a state which is ran by said religion teaches racism, is "dumb" (by the way, nice job adding the 'b' at the end). If it doesn't teach those things, why not just say so? Oh, one more thing. The difference between the KKK and the Mormons is that the KKK is a criminal organization that is NOT a religion. And although you are claiming that the KKK is a "religious group", I and mainstream America have another name for them....a hate group.

Last edited by Nic; August 10th, 2005 at 09:45 PM.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 09:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bay_area
Yes, the Church did that and then changed its stance. I would think that the Church would be lauded for becoming more inclusive.


Sorry if I choose to follow the convictions of my heart as opposed to your rantings. There's a promise at the End of The Book of Mormon...that if you read, ponder and pray about the book with real intent and a sincere heart, you will come to know of its truthfulness by the holy ghost and I believe the peace and warmth I felt when I prayed about it was just that. Either you believe it or you dont. I dont see the need to criticize those who dont agree with you when this is something that is totally subjective-not a very liberal and inclusive thing to do if you ask me. And certainly not very tolerant.


Its called Faith. Pure and Simple. Christianity by its very nature requires that one suspend rational thought.

Its not easy being a person of color who is Mormon and a Liberal Democrat. I get a hard time from all sides, but I cant deny what I believe to be true. Everything else has to take a back seat.
I really don't care what you believe. Religious superstitions are interesting, but in no way terrible. IMO, astrology is a crock, and so is Scientology, as is Christian Science, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, New Age, etc. What most religions have in common are nutty beliefs all gussied up as "faith", as if that somehow excuses their irrationality and surreality.

Why is it off limits to say what's obvious to anyone who's ever taken a science class? We can have opinions about anything and everything but once the "faith" word is invoked, we're all supposed to shut up? Again, what you believe is not important to me. But religion is necessarily a subject in the public square: it injects itself politically, both in elections and in public education, it demonizes people it considers outside the fold, it fosters idiocy in the form of anti-evolution "science", it creates sectarian strife, and has generally been the vehicle for much human unhappiness. And you're a bigot if you say anything against it!
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Old August 10th, 2005, 10:23 PM   #20
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I really don't care what you believe
Yet at the end of the day, that's what it all boils down to. Ones personal beliefs.

Quote:
Why is it off limits to say what's obvious to anyone who's ever taken a science class? We can have opinions about anything and everything but once the "faith" word is invoked, we're all supposed to shut up?
Who says you cant say what you want? People who belong to contraversial religions are used to people coming up to them giving them the 3rd degree..its part of the territory.
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