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Old October 11th, 2007, 02:11 AM   #61
maartenvdbent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eusebius View Post
Deventer would be a very good choice. One thing though, Deventer is not Dutch. Holland/a.k.a. the Dutch never ventured east of Amsterdam and Rotterdam. In terms of military power, Holland was a sissy. Around 500 years ago, Holland was just another Burgundy province, the regions in the east had the more powerful cities and armies.
Why do you apply the term "Dutch" only to Holland and not to the rest of the Netherlands?
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Old October 11th, 2007, 05:34 AM   #62
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What makes eusebius' remark even stranger is that the term "Dutch", derived from "Diets" or "Duits", came from... the east. But whatever he wants foreigners to believe, semantically he is wrong since "Dutch" in a modern context means nothing else but "Nederlands" or "coming or being from The Netherlands."
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Old October 11th, 2007, 06:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
What makes eusebius' remark even stranger is that the term "Dutch", derived from "Diets" or "Duits", came from... the east. But whatever he wants foreigners to believe, semantically he is wrong since "Dutch" in a modern context means nothing else but "Nederlands" or "coming or being from The Netherlands."
No, it does not. Diets goes with the language we gave up on speaking around 1400. The Netherlands existed well before this cropped up. The oldest cities of our country; Nijmegen, Maastricht and Deventer, the latter founded by a monk from England actually, prospered ages before Holland even existed. Those storming Normans sailed up our rivers because at the mouthes of those rivers there simply wasn't anything to rob.
The use of the word 'Dutch' only serves as yet another example of English stupidity, like a Muir Atlas depicting the 1932 Afsluitdijk on a map depicting the NL in roman times.
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Old October 11th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #64
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So what word do they use to refer to everything east of Woerden?
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Old October 11th, 2007, 11:21 AM   #65
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Reserve-German / -Germans / -Germany?
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Old October 11th, 2007, 11:51 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eusebius View Post
I was thinking of the romans actually. The romans entered our country via Nijmegen and Maastricht.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eusebius View Post
The oldest cities of our country; Nijmegen, Maastricht and Deventer, the latter founded by a monk from England actually, prospered ages before Holland even existed.
*cough* Voorburg *cough*
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Old October 11th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #67
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*cough* Voorburg *cough*
Was een kleine nederzetting (Forum Hadriani) en er is weinig van bekend.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 12:10 PM   #68
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Was een kleine nederzetting (Forum Hadriani) en er is weinig van bekend.
Maar hij was er wel
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Old October 12th, 2007, 06:45 PM   #69
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Whatever the history may be, nowadays Holland is the most powerful and interesting location to visit. There isn't really a lot worth visiting outside Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland and Utrecht. Just dull villages.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 09:38 PM   #70
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Maar goed dat ze daar in de rest van Nederland en Europa anders over denken.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 09:59 PM   #71
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Idd.....Zwijg alsjeblijft TC03....Grootste sukkel der sukkels.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #72
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Niet alles zo serieus nemen, het was meer een reactie op eusebieus die weer aan het calimeroën is.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #73
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*cough* Albanianae *cough*

*cough* Nigrum Pullum *cough*
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Old October 13th, 2007, 12:19 AM   #74
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Dutch in an English term, although it originally came from what is explained 'Diets' which meant "the language of the peasants" in contrast with either Latin or French which was spoken by the elite in various ages. Dutch in Netherlandish would be Nederlands.

Holland (the Western Provinces these days) only started their growth from around 1200 in the south (Zeeland) and lifted along with the Belgian cities, some exceptions were Leiden, Delft and I believe Haarlem. The most of the 'harbourcities' and now most important cities recieved 'cityrights' in the 1300s, among these were Amsterdam and Rotterdam.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 01:12 PM   #75
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Quote:
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You don't think they have cows in Denmark?

I saw tonnes of Danish cows 2 weeks ago
You're missing my point!

Dutch cow milk is the best!
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Old October 13th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #76
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En Diets werd niet alleen hier gesproken, maar ook in grote delen van Duitsland. Vandaar 'Duits'.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 09:38 PM   #77
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Fames?
ik bedoelde eigenlijk de vee-muis
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Old October 14th, 2007, 03:15 AM   #78
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Maar hij was er wel
Nou, čn? Zulke nederzettingen waren er overal! Alleen Voorburg blijft leuren met zo'n onbelangrijk feit. Google op 'Het Goud van Velp' als je nog niet onlangs in de krant hebt gelezen over deze schat die als twistpunt diende tussen Duitsland/Pruiseen en Rusland/Sovjet Unie.

De eerste steden en de eerste torens; allemaal in het oosten en het zuiden.
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Old October 14th, 2007, 12:24 PM   #79
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Ik ben altijd bereid tot een potje Randstad-bashen, maar het is wel zo handig als je alle feiten hanteerd. Als je het belang van het Zuidoosten in Romeinse tijd wil benadrukken, is het wel zo handig om aan te geven dat nederzettingen in Holland veel kleiner en onbelangrijker waren in plaats van te ontkennen dat beschaving in Holland überhaupt bestond. Anders krijg je van die neuzeldiscussies op de vierkante centimeter en die leidt alleen maar af van het bashen
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Old October 15th, 2007, 04:57 AM   #80
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Wat een gezeur zeg. Iedereen weet dat de mens van hogere (zandrijke) gronden langzaamaan het veen in trekt. Daar is het leven moeilijker maar valt uiteindelijk meer te halen. De lieden die Holland vanaf de late steentijd bewoonbaar hebben gemaakt, zijn dus uiteindelijk niets meer dan de avontuurlijker nazaten van hen die op het oude land leefden.

Ander punt: bijna heel Denemarken is "oud land", lijkt me voor zo'n Deen dan ook een stuk interessanter om eens een (stad in de) polder te bezoeken.
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