Environmental Protection, Conservation, and Rehabilitation - Page 44 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Philippine Forums > Around the Philippines > The Economy, Industry and Development Issues

The Economy, Industry and Development Issues Current news and events with regards to the economy, industry and urban development issues


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 8th, 2019, 11:26 AM   #861
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 859
Likes (Received): 1384

speaking of Laguna dredging.. Matagal na yan na plan and the closest thing of actually doing a massive dredging was the during the previous admin in which did not proceed because of... 😅..
__________________

s_w_stars liked this post
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 9th, 2019, 03:42 AM   #862
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,866
Likes (Received): 2663

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
It depends on the type of soil. If it is silt and mud, they got plenty of that in Manila Bay. The problem with that planned reclamation is subsidence. The area where they plan to do the reclamation had sunk already. They need more than mud, silt, soft soil for reclamation. 1000 years later Venice is sinking, 20 years later Osaka airport is slowly sinking.

I think it is best to follow what the Belgian dredging company planned to save the silt and muck and use them for a dikes around the LdB. They also proposed a special technique to contain them....LdB had a depth of 9 m in 1900, and it's now down to 3 m only (?). Lots of water they can keep in that lake. Best news I've heard yet re Laguna de Bai. They can clean up the lake, then have filtration plants.
IMO, the cause of subsidence is "draining of water" from the reclaimed soil! When the reclaimed soil conditions change from being waterlogged to dry (anaerobic to aerobic), the organic contents of the mud/muck will begin to oxidize and begin to shrink, hence the subsidence! It could also be brought about by wanton sinking of private wells and drawing too much water from the aquifer. The Dutch are experienced in inducing subsidence of reclaimed land to prep the land and make it become firmer and don't subside much in the future, AFAIK.
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2019, 08:41 PM   #863
s_w_stars
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,358
Likes (Received): 4863

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
IMO, the cause of subsidence is "draining of water" from the reclaimed soil! When the reclaimed soil conditions change from being waterlogged to dry (anaerobic to aerobic), the organic contents of the mud/muck will begin to oxidize and begin to shrink, hence the subsidence! It could also be brought about by wanton sinking of private wells and drawing too much water from the aquifer. The Dutch are experienced in inducing subsidence of reclaimed land to prep the land and make it become firmer and don't subside much in the future, AFAIK.
Nice explanations. Again it's all textbook stuff. Maybe how about applying your knowledge to the situation being discussed. Btw., Zuider Zee was a 50 year project between 1920 to 1970 to complete the last polder. I'm sure Pinoys can do that in 5 years, happy? BUT that is not the point, the point I raised is that the issue of subsidence in not limited to the land the property developers are reclaiming for the airport etc. The subsidence is a problem for the communities along the shores of MB - from Navotas to Calumpit. Human habitation has contributed to the sinking too many people, pumping out water for human use. This is what an environmental IMPACT study should cover. What is the IMPACT of the reclamation on the surrounding sinking communities, now and in the future. They have to think sustainability not just mitigation. As far as I see, the reclamation for the airport, plus the property developments and industrial developments in an already impacted and vulnerable area is asking for a disaster down the road for the neighboring communities. Do not oversimplify because you read things in your textbook, learn to apply the knowledge to real situations.
__________________
"Traveling and sojourning among various people make men wise." - Cervantes
s_w_stars no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2019, 09:51 AM   #864
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,866
Likes (Received): 2663

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Nice explanations. Again it's all textbook stuff. Maybe how about applying your knowledge to the situation being discussed. Btw., Zuider Zee was a 50 year project between 1920 to 1970 to complete the last polder. I'm sure Pinoys can do that in 5 years, happy? BUT that is not the point, the point I raised is that the issue of subsidence in not limited to the land the property developers are reclaiming for the airport etc. The subsidence is a problem for the communities along the shores of MB - from Navotas to Calumpit. Human habitation has contributed to the sinking too many people, pumping out water for human use. This is what an environmental IMPACT study should cover. What is the IMPACT of the reclamation on the surrounding sinking communities, now and in the future. They have to think sustainability not just mitigation. As far as I see, the reclamation for the airport, plus the property developments and industrial developments in an already impacted and vulnerable area is asking for a disaster down the road for the neighboring communities. Do not oversimplify because you read things in your textbook, learn to apply the knowledge to real situations.
Nothing is simple the way I posted there! If you think that was simple, others do not. Any disturbance imposed on any kind of ground/soil will always have dire effects. If it took millions of years for nature to alter a certain area, perhaps it will be just decades when aided with human fallibility!
__________________
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all: it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality.

- H.L. Mencken
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2019, 08:16 PM   #865
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Nice explanations. Again it's all textbook stuff. Maybe how about applying your knowledge to the situation being discussed. Btw., Zuider Zee was a 50 year project between 1920 to 1970 to complete the last polder. I'm sure Pinoys can do that in 5 years, happy? BUT that is not the point, the point I raised is that the issue of subsidence in not limited to the land the property developers are reclaiming for the airport etc. The subsidence is a problem for the communities along the shores of MB - from Navotas to Calumpit. Human habitation has contributed to the sinking too many people, pumping out water for human use. This is what an environmental IMPACT study should cover. What is the IMPACT of the reclamation on the surrounding sinking communities, now and in the future. They have to think sustainability not just mitigation. As far as I see, the reclamation for the airport, plus the property developments and industrial developments in an already impacted and vulnerable area is asking for a disaster down the road for the neighboring communities. Do not oversimplify because you read things in your textbook, learn to apply the knowledge to real situations.
If SMC applied the correct technologies to stop land subsidence in the area where they're building the airport and access roads, they can NOT be bad for Navotas right?
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2019, 04:03 AM   #866
wakeuptoreality
whenthefirestartstoburn
 
wakeuptoreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Resort City
Posts: 3,107
Likes (Received): 4122

Haze from Indonesia forest fires reaches Metro Cebu

@Niel Cordova Jarina







__________________
banned for my amusement

hugodiekonig liked this post
wakeuptoreality no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2019, 05:11 PM   #867
j01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,878
Likes (Received): 2097

In 2017, I ranted here in SSC about the Manila Baywalk (in CCP Thread).

Based on the drone shot, there are no more squatters in the plant boxes. That can improve the water quality because there are no more human excrement along the baywalk.

And at 08:00, seems they are building a long drainage that will redirect the sewer water to a treatment facility before releasing to the Manila Bay.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMf8CdAFeA
__________________

naruto-kun liked this post
j01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2019, 04:37 AM   #868
absinthe_888
Registered User
 
absinthe_888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,634
Likes (Received): 10694

Here we go [yet] again

This will definitely be worse come summer 2020

__________________
"Honestly, I have identified the enemy who dumped us into this quagmire we are in. I have met the enemy face to face. And sadly, the enemy is us. We are our own tormentors."

PRRD, #SONA2019
absinthe_888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2019, 03:04 PM   #869
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

^ For sure. Kaliwa Dam was supposed to start back in July. But I guess they haven't secured an ECC yet?
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2019, 03:46 PM   #870
Ekoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 859
Likes (Received): 1384


Kaliwa Dam secures environmental compliance certificate
__________________

j01 liked this post

Last edited by Ekoy; October 23rd, 2019 at 04:08 PM.
Ekoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2019, 07:43 PM   #871
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

^ Awesome news! Only the IP thingy left and they can start construction and secure MM's water for the next generation!
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2019, 12:14 PM   #872
absinthe_888
Registered User
 
absinthe_888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,634
Likes (Received): 10694

IP and environmental concerns aside, water is a vital and strategic national asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by fretburner View Post
^ Awesome news! Only the IP thingy left and they can start construction and secure MM's water for the next generation!
Especially now with MM in water crisis mode...

CHR concerned over alleged ‘faked’ approval, consultation from IPs to push Kaliwa Dam project
Published October 29, 2019 4:36pm

Quote:
The Commission on Human Rights (CHR) expressed concern over alleged faked consultation and approval from affected indigenous communities to push through the construction of Kaliwa Dam in Quezon.

CHR spokesperson Jacqueline Ann de Guia said the free prior and informed consent (FPIC) is necessary to activities that affect indigenous peoples’ (IPs) ancestral lands, territories and natural resources under IPs’ right to self-determination.

“The right to free consent implies equally the right to dissent,” De Guia said in a statement on Monday.

“If indigenous peoples are clearly opposed to a particular project, their decision should be respected and they should continue to benefit in the same way as other people from State benefits, development plans and services,” she added.

De Guia said CHR recognizes the water security problems in Metro Manila, but she said this should not come at the expense of human rights of affected IP communities and their land’s biodiversity.
Re: Kaliwa NCC

Quote:
The controversial Kaliwa Dam project has already obtained an Environmental Compliance Certificate (ECC) from the DENR. But CHR reminded it can be cancelled if they fail to comply with the conditions.

CHR also urged the National Commission on Indigenous Peoples to check the authenticity of the FPIC and ensure rights-based processes in securing it.

“The Commission supports the proposal to conduct a congressional hearing on the dam project to air the grievances of the Agta-Dumagat-Remontado communities,” it added.
__________________
"Honestly, I have identified the enemy who dumped us into this quagmire we are in. I have met the enemy face to face. And sadly, the enemy is us. We are our own tormentors."

PRRD, #SONA2019
absinthe_888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2019, 12:23 PM   #873
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

Pwede putulan ng tubig tong taga CHR na to? Di naman kelangan unanimous yung pirma ng IPs diba? Paano nya nasabi na opposed lahat ng IPs sa project? May data sya na maipapakita?

If these IPs are anything like the IPs I've encountered, they will just want to get paid the maximum amount and be happy.

They're not going to lose all of their lands, they're just going to lose part of it and will be compensated handsomely.
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2019, 02:48 PM   #874
ralfy
Registered User
 
ralfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 49

"How rising sea levels could affect PHL cities, towns by 2050"

Quote:
The new research showed that 150 million people currently living on land will be submerged by mid-century. Among the countries that will be most affected are the Philippines, China, Bangladesh, India, Vietnam. Indonesia, Thailand and Japan.
ralfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2019, 05:46 PM   #875
Magniko
DDS(Davao Dabbing Squad)
 
Magniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 750
Likes (Received): 985

Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
Especially now with MM in water crisis mode...

CHR concerned over alleged ‘faked’ approval, consultation from IPs to push Kaliwa Dam project
Published October 29, 2019 4:36pm



Re: Kaliwa NCC

Let’s see:
The claim to some land by a couple hundred IPs

vs.

The basic needs of over 10 million people

I wonder what is more urgent!
__________________
ooga booga unga bunga urg gruh
-Grug, 12,587 BC
Magniko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2019, 01:17 PM   #876
johnmizer_ver_2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 244
Likes (Received): 146

Pero dapat dapat Weir lang ng Japanese plan.

Ewan ko ba.
__________________

KingJack Mafia liked this post
johnmizer_ver_2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2019, 01:23 PM   #877
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmizer_ver_2 View Post
Pero dapat dapat Weir lang ng Japanese plan.

Ewan ko ba.
The weir is inferior as it cannot store water especially when Metro Manila need it the most.

It's also more expensive if you convert to a common currency.

So, no.
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2019, 01:50 PM   #878
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-
Welcome to the Planet
 
-SNPKLSDMBLDR-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,151
Likes (Received): 3737

the same wokes concerned about the environment/IPs (which to be fair is valid), using the boring Chinese debt trap argument and are against the dam will be the same people who will complain when rotational water interruption becomes permanent in the near future.

yet another case of damned if you do, damned if you dont'.
__________________
DFB-GER '14 - Schweinsteiger #31/Messi #10 - Scuderia Ferrari - #DC Joker/BoP/WW'84

-SNPKLSDMBLDR- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2019, 02:12 PM   #879
fretburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,868
Likes (Received): 2606

Whatever you do, unless you're planting trees, there's always going to be an environmental impact. By simply breathing, eating and sh!tting, humans are already having an adverse impact to the environment.

The key is, how to minimize this human-induced negative impact and be sustainable. Dams can have a significant negative impact, but you can "reverse" this impact by planting trees elsewhere so you're not losing forest cover in the general area. I will be concerned if the area where the dam is built and the consequent reservoir would actually kill the only habitat of known and unknown endemic plant and animal species there, and therefore, drive them to extinction.

Also, while weirs will have less of an environmental impact, they can be overall, more adverse if their mitigation isn't proportional.

Both solutions, can have the same net effect. So I really don't know what these Dilawans are b!tching about.

The IPs will be paid handsomely. I think they will be happy at the end of it all. Unless of course, they lose all the money they're going to get by spending beyond their means due to lack of financial literacy.

I've seen IPs buying houses and vehicles after selling their land at fair or even bloated prices, then a few years later, cry to government that they want their lands back.
__________________

johnmizer_ver_2, j01 liked this post
fretburner no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2019, 02:28 AM   #880
absinthe_888
Registered User
 
absinthe_888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,634
Likes (Received): 10694

Goodluck

__________________
"Honestly, I have identified the enemy who dumped us into this quagmire we are in. I have met the enemy face to face. And sadly, the enemy is us. We are our own tormentors."

PRRD, #SONA2019

KingJack Mafia liked this post
absinthe_888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Tags
asia, environment, philippines

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:29 AM. • styleid: 14


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us